Banter 90: 08Oct25 A multi-dimensional value framework for town and parish councils, Amy Burnett

Dr Amy Burnett offers a practical framework showing how parish and town councils can use multi-dimensional value thinking to support integrated local action.

It moves beyond traditional cost-benefit analysis to recognise interconnected types of value that VCSEs and community organisations create - from social capital and environmental benefits to community ownership and regenerative outcomes. This approach helps parish and town councils consider policy and practice across planning, procurement, engagement and asset management whilst creating cascading community benefits.

Video Timeline: (min:sec)

00:00 - 53:40 Presentation

53:40 - 58:09 (end) Q & A

Please note that there were questions posed all the way through the presentation, so in essence the Q & A session ran throughout.

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Presentation:

524KB

A Multi-Dimensional Value Framework for Parish & Town Councils and VCFSEs.pdf

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Meeting Summary:

Quick recap

The meeting began with introductions and discussions about the importance of identifying participants and the newly acquired charitable status of the network. Amy presented research on the value of the voluntary community and social enterprise sector, exploring how parish and town councils can support these organizations and highlighting challenges in measurement and communication. The group discussed mapping and tracking community organizations, with participants exploring various approaches to make community data more accessible and develop tools for measuring and articulating the value created by parish and town councils beyond traditional monetary metrics.

Next steps

• Amy to share her presentation slides with the attendees.

• Amy and Catherine to work with interested councils who volunteered to test the VCSE value mapper tool.

• Amy to maintain connection with Tristram and Paul White regarding the mapping tools and integration with parish websites.

• Tristram to continue working with Paul White on developing mapping capabilities for voluntary sector organizations.

• Amy to send LinkedIn connection information to attendees as mentioned during her presentation.

Summary

Meeting Introductions and Language Setup

The meeting began with introductions and casual conversation among participants, including David Newman, Amy, and Graham. David shared his background, including his work in public consultation and his experiences in various countries. Graham mentioned that the meeting would be conducted in Portuguese, with the recorded portion starting after the introductions. Amy noted that she was attending on behalf of another person who couldn't make it. The group discussed the importance of identifying participants for clarity, and Frank mentioned their network's newly acquired charitable status. The meeting officially began with Tristram joining and the start of the recorded portion.

Supporting VCSEs: Challenges and Opportunities

Amy presented her research on the value of the voluntary community and social enterprise sector, funded by a British Academy Policy Innovation Fellowship. She discussed how parish and town councils can support these organizations and highlighted challenges in measuring and communicating their value. Amy asked questions about the relationship between VCSEs and local councils, including how they access support and communicate their value. She also touched on the potential for councils to play a more entrepreneurial role in supporting the VCSE sector and the importance of regenerative procurement.

VCSE Economic Value Clarification

The discussion focused on clarifying the value of the VCSE sector to the UK economy, with Tristram seeking clarification on the discrepancy between different estimates. Amy explained that the figures were based on government calculations measuring the monetary value of services provided by the sector, but agreed to look into the specific question further. David Morgan-Jones raised concerns about the limited awareness and engagement of VCSEs at the parish council level in rural areas, noting that these organizations often operate independently of local government structures.

Parish Councils and Community Relations

The meeting discussed the relationships between parish councils and local community groups. David Morgan-Jones explained that while there are many voluntary groups in the area, the parish council often provides financial support when requested. David Newman highlighted the challenges faced by community groups in Blackbird Leys, including funding issues and communication problems, while also noting successful collaborations with local organizations. Garry described the close relationships between Corsham Town Council and various community groups, including their support for initiatives like the Remembrance Day poppy project.

Community Organization Support Systems

The group discussed community organizations and their support systems, with Garry highlighting successful collaborations between the local food bank, volunteer organizations, and the church, which recently hosted 30 Rainbows and Beaver Scouts building a bug hotel. Graham raised questions about the registration and tracking of voluntary organizations, noting variations across different areas and the role of parish councils in supporting them. Amy mentioned the challenge of quantifying grassroots organizations and suggested exploring the potential of parish online mapping to track these groups, particularly in rural areas, while also referencing Paul White's work in Somerset.

Voluntary Sector Data Mapping Initiative

The group discussed progress on creating a voluntary sector organization map with Paul White in Devon, focusing on challenges in data collection and maintenance. They explored potential solutions, including using AI and leveraging village halls as information sources. David Morgan-Jones suggested developing a standardized dashboard system for parish councils that would provide quick and easy access to relevant information, emphasizing the need to make the data visible and updateable by both councils and the public.

Community Data Access and Valuation

The group discussed making community data more accessible to the public through mapping and list views, with Tristram suggesting a public map interface that could also display data in list form. David Morgan-Jones emphasized the need for democratized access and suggested that individual dashboards could improve data quality. Amy presented a value typology framework for measuring social return on investment and other community values, highlighting the importance of capturing both measured and unmeasured social benefits. The discussion concluded with Amy asking for input on challenges faced in valuing community activities and outcomes.

Community Valuation Framework Discussion

The group discussed changes in local governance and community valuation under the Pride in Place program, with David Newman highlighting increased complexity and uncertainty in devolution processes. Tristram raised concerns about the lack of measurement for valuable community work outside parish councils, particularly noting the church's voluntary services. Amy presented a value typology framework that considers growth, stability, and cultural recognition, suggesting a need for multidimensional approaches to community valuation.

Value Mapping for Community Organizations

Amy presented on a value mapping framework for community organizations, discussing how to measure and articulate the value created by parish and town councils beyond traditional monetary metrics. She explained different types of value including appreciative value, social capital, and regenerative value, and outlined plans for a value mapper tool to help organizations uncover and communicate their "shadow value" to stakeholders. Several participants expressed interest in testing the tool, with Frome Town Council and Corsham Town Council offering to participate as pilot cases. The discussion concluded with agreement to correct some numerical discrepancies in the presentation materials before sharing them more widely.

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Chat:

00:20:18 Jenny Barna: We have lots of voluntary groups and an umbrella organisation of which the PC is a member.

00:20:35 Jacky Lawrence, Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire: our Parish Council supports the local Sports Association in many ways.

00:20:57 Jacky Lawrence, Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire: it also supported the local swift action group - which showed it could support a Local Nature Action Plan

00:21:32 Jacky Lawrence, Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire: and the war memorial group, and Napton Neighbourhood Watch, and the church, and Napton WI, and Nosh and Natter, and Napton Environmental Action Team, and the Village Hall.

00:29:07 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): In Northern Ireland NICVA knows every community and voluntary organisation in Northern Ireland.

00:32:05 Jenny Barna, Ditchling, Sussex: This is our umbrella org website. Issues remain with member updates and also people not using web now. See https://ditchling.com

00:35:56 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): The Leys Engine aims to get every event and organisation to add their information to the web site that wants to replace a local newspaper.

00:37:26 David Morgan-Jones: Reacted to "The Leys Engine aims..." with 👍

00:49:20 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Doughnut economics - growth beyond enviromental limits is bad.

00:58:21 Abi Green, Frome UK: Thank you so much Amy, it’s been really interesting. I have to head off now. Many thanks all.

00:58:52 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): There are network mapping tools - one linked to a CRM.

01:01:39 Samantha Evans: Hi Amy. I would definitely like to be involved if you wanted to look at a VCSE working in partnership with Frome Town Council [email protected]

01:03:15 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Corsham Town Council is also happy to help - [email protected]

01:04:50 David Morgan-Jones: Thank you very much.

01:05:10 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Sounds something that needs paid staff, on the scale of a neighbourhood board.

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Audio transcript:

92 00:07:41.010 --> 00:07:57.610 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Others who are joining can do so at their own cost, in terms of what they miss. They'll have to pick it up afterwards, but if you'd like to go ahead and tell us who you are and what you're going to be talking about, and off you go. And the recording will start from now, officially.

93 00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:09.020 Amy Burnett: Okay, I'm just gonna make sure I can share my screen and everything, okay before I do that, and, then work out how to…

94 00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:16.210 Amy Burnett: Right, so I'm assuming you can see that, and then I need to work out how to do.

95 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.749 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: We can certainly see it, and you're just gonna go into Slideshow mode? Yeah.

96 00:08:20.750 --> 00:08:32.070 Amy Burnett: Everything keeps popping up, so yes, slideshow mode. Hang on, don't record me fumbling around, please. Or share it with… oh, so where has that gone?

97 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:40.700 Amy Burnett: Right, slide… Can anybody help me? Where's it got? Sideshow. Okay, right.

98 00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:46.569 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Still loading, but it's coming.

99 00:08:47.630 --> 00:08:48.830 Amy Burnett: Okay, can you see that?

100 00:08:48.830 --> 00:08:49.819 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yes, we can. It's perfect.

101 00:08:50.770 --> 00:09:15.469 Amy Burnett: So, now I can't see anybody's faces, but, that's okay. I saw some people, who were in the room, and it's nice to see you, Tristan, and, it's nice to see people from Corsham. I've got some family links there, and nice to see someone from Fruman, all the other people in the room. So, what I wanted to talk about was some work that I've been doing over the last 15 months with, a central government department, but just to kind of roll it back a little bit.

102 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:17.479 Amy Burnett: But about my…

103 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:41.040 Amy Burnett: experience of working with town and parish councils, and I'll also kind of give a bit of an update in terms of who I am, which should be this slide. So, yeah, I've been working on inclusive and sustainable development for quite a long time, as we've just been talking. Also, that was in Angola and other African and Brazilian contexts, but also particularly in England and the South West.

104 00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:58.540 Amy Burnett: And I have been looking at civil society, local government, thinking about monitoring and evaluation, accountability, and learning, which is one of the acronyms that Save the Children use, which I think is actually a very nice way of… it's not just measurement, it's also about how do you use that to be accountable to your stakeholders

105 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:18.109 Amy Burnett: and learn from that experience as well. I have written on localism, and the politics of transition, and looking at, particularly at rural planning issues. Looking at SME, Nature Positive Finance is a project I'm involved in, which is how to kind of incorporate biodiversity into how we think about investment.

106 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:25.920 Amy Burnett: Doing some work on supply chains, supporting parish and town councils on neighbourhood planning and general, community initiatives.

107 00:10:26.050 --> 00:10:48.970 Amy Burnett: working with a local authority on supporting the voluntary community faith and social enterprise sector in the context of devolution, and I have, for some time been engaged with NALC and SLCC, and also with, Tristam as well, and Parish Online. So I've got lots of, experience working with town and parish councils, and there's a link which I will send you when you get my presentation to connect on LinkedIn, should you want to.

108 00:10:49.190 --> 00:10:50.500 Amy Burnett: So…

109 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:57.329 Amy Burnett: I want to talk about, some research that I did as part of a British Academy Policy Innovation Fellowship.

110 00:10:57.430 --> 00:11:15.139 Amy Burnett: Which was, working with the, Department for Culture, Media and Sport in their civil society and youth team, and it was a 15-month, project where I was looking at what is the value of the voluntary community and social enterprise sector. I've also put faith in there, because I know some places use

111 00:11:15.140 --> 00:11:27.399 Amy Burnett: faith as well. And I wanted to particularly talk to you today about what that particular study means in the context of thinking about the role of parish and town councils

112 00:11:27.510 --> 00:11:41.849 Amy Burnett: to not only understand and amplify the value of the VC-FSC sector, but also what it means in terms of how they can think about the value that they generate from a multiple lens of value, essentially, and to kind of test

113 00:11:41.850 --> 00:11:53.170 Amy Burnett: a few things and assumptions with you, and also see if you want to get involved in the next steps, because the British Academy are funding some follow-on work, and it'd be great to have you involved.

114 00:11:53.490 --> 00:12:06.600 Amy Burnett: I've got some questions, scattered around my presentation, so it won't just be me talking at you. But essentially, I'm really interested in how, if you measure what's valued.

115 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:16.040 Amy Burnett: what that then can mean in terms of, like, the balance of power, supporting entrepreneurial ecosystems. That's not just the private sector, but also how

116 00:12:16.130 --> 00:12:32.020 Amy Burnett: town and parish councils can play a role in being entrepreneurial with the voluntary community and social enterprise sector. And what that means in terms of, like, policy innovation, particularly in the context of devolution, as well as things like regenerative procurement. So how can your

117 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:41.359 Amy Burnett: procurement mean that you support things like community wealth building, community action through positive, decisions on math. So,

118 00:12:41.540 --> 00:12:56.089 Amy Burnett: essentially, the fellowship was looking at how do current valuation methods and metrics shape policy interventions, and how can they leverage local innovation within the VCSE sector. And it's work that was funded through the British Academy, as I've said, but also

119 00:12:56.090 --> 00:13:07.110 Amy Burnett: As well as the British Academy extending some follow-on funding, I'm also a local Policy Innovation Partnership LPET Place Fellow, so I'm going to be doing some work looking into these issues more on that as well.

120 00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:11.190 Amy Burnett: So, I've got some questions for you in a minute, but just to kind of

121 00:13:11.380 --> 00:13:19.140 Amy Burnett: Very, quickly kind of say about what the relationship is, and you all obviously have very, very clear views on this as well.

122 00:13:19.140 --> 00:13:36.190 Amy Burnett: But thinking about the context of VCSEs and how they help to deliver public services, and the contribution that they make to the UK economy, and there's lots and lots of social enterprises and VCSE organisations, but sometimes the way that their contributions are measured

123 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:48.849 Amy Burnett: Doesn't quite fit, you know, the actual wholesale value of what they are delivering, and that's kind of an issue with some of the metrics, and lack of awareness, or problems with communication, or siloed partnerships, etc.

124 00:13:48.850 --> 00:14:00.110 Amy Burnett: So, parish and town councils play a real role, in supporting these organisations, because they are closest to the communities, and they can recognise and amplify this value.

125 00:14:00.110 --> 00:14:16.110 Amy Burnett: But also, and this would be interesting to get your thoughts on, whether it's controversial, whether it's accurate, or a bit in between, but, you know, parish and town councillors are also volunteers, as you well know, and you're also a bridge between different, community and government initiatives.

126 00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:24.459 Amy Burnett: And sometimes this kind of tension of, you are a volunteer, but you're government, and then this kind of feeling of maybe you're not

127 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:30.500 Amy Burnett: seen as equals to the kind of higher tiers of government can also, play into, kind of.

128 00:14:30.550 --> 00:14:50.029 Amy Burnett: dynamic of power, where sometimes, parish and town councillors might feel undervalued. Not always, but there is this other issue. Actually, it's not just the VCSE sector that has this kind of challenge of not being seen fully, but also the parish and town council sector. So how can this particular lens, support

129 00:14:50.690 --> 00:14:54.149 Amy Burnett: you know, responding to those two different questions. So.

130 00:14:54.280 --> 00:14:59.219 Amy Burnett: I just wanted to ask some questions, really, at this point.

131 00:14:59.290 --> 00:15:14.380 Amy Burnett: like, what's your relationship like with local voluntary community faith and social enterprise organisations? Does it differ according to their size, their theme, their governance model, the individuals that are in these organizations?

132 00:15:14.380 --> 00:15:19.970 Amy Burnett: what challenges are they facing in particular in terms of accessing support? Maybe that's time, money, resources.

133 00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:35.730 Amy Burnett: Sorry, quite a lot of questions. You can pick and choose which ones you want to respond to. How much of that is due to the fact that these VCSE organizations struggle to communicate their value? And where has it worked well, where they've actually successfully communicated their value, and how do they do this?

134 00:15:36.020 --> 00:15:59.130 Amy Burnett: what's the kind of major challenges, and how is the challenges that are being faced by the voluntary community and social enterprise sector the same or different to, what you face as town and parish councillors? So, you don't feel obliged to answer all those questions, but if there's anything that resonates, or you want to come and chip in at this point, it'd be really helpful just to have a conversation, but if you don't… if nobody wants to say anything, that's also fine.

135 00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:04.129 Amy Burnett: And I can't see anyone.

136 00:16:06.910 --> 00:16:07.850 tristram cary: Oh, good.

137 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:15.359 tristram cary: Sorry, I've jumped the gun. Amy, just one question on what…

138 00:16:15.760 --> 00:16:21.430 tristram cary: quickly on the value. You said the value of the VCSE sector is however many billion.

139 00:16:22.050 --> 00:16:28.099 tristram cary: And then there was another estimate of value, which seemed to be different. How is that measured, and what do those mean?

140 00:16:28.470 --> 00:16:31.980 Amy Burnett: So, that one…

141 00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:32.740 tristram cary: Yes.

142 00:16:33.380 --> 00:16:36.449 Amy Burnett: $78 billion to the UK economy.

143 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:47.939 tristram cary: Is that in terms… is that in… is that valuing the services they provide in terms of providing food and lifts and support? Or is it… is it… so, in other words, is that the voluntary sector

144 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:52.889 tristram cary: Doing something that otherwise the state would have to do.

145 00:16:53.170 --> 00:17:07.079 Amy Burnett: So yeah, I think it's, like, the contrary… so I can get you the actual how that was calculated. Yes, there are… there is, so, I'll have to check, so that might just be an issue of, putting…

146 00:17:07.329 --> 00:17:07.829 Amy Burnett: too fast.

147 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:12.689 tristram cary: Because then the 17 billion seems to be on the next line, seems to be measuring the same thing.

148 00:17:12.690 --> 00:17:17.800 Amy Burnett: Hmm, okay, yeah, I have to… I'll have to check that, but essentially, it's kind of… it's, it's,

149 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:35.979 Amy Burnett: underpinned by, various calculations that have been done, as far as I'm aware, by, government. And it's kind of like how much they, I guess it's more from the kind of cost-benefit, you know, this is the kind of monetary value that they contribute in terms of services, that they deliver.

150 00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:41.460 Amy Burnett: So I will… I can look into that specific question, but yes, that's… Thank you. Yeah, okay.

151 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:42.930 tristram cary: Sorry, there's clarification.

152 00:17:42.930 --> 00:17:47.740 Amy Burnett: Yeah, I will follow that up. So going to the…

153 00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:53.329 Amy Burnett: questions. Does anybody want to respond to… Any of those.

154 00:17:56.550 --> 00:17:58.959 David Morgan-Jones: Amy, a number of us got our hands up, just…

155 00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.350 Amy Burnett: Okay.

156 00:17:59.350 --> 00:18:00.430 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: But if you were to just.

157 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:02.270 Amy Burnett: Then, whoever's got their hand up first.

158 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:05.769 Amy Burnett: Do you want to mediate that?

159 00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:11.259 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I think it's David.

160 00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:16.109 David Morgan-Jones: Well, I'm… I'll go first.

161 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.830 David Morgan-Jones: Dave Morgan Jones, I'm from a very small parish in North Hampshire.

162 00:18:22.570 --> 00:18:29.419 David Morgan-Jones: I have to say, our understanding of VCFSEs is minimal, to say the least.

163 00:18:30.110 --> 00:18:36.310 David Morgan-Jones: And I think you'll find that there are a lot of very small parishes that are completely unaware of these.

164 00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:36.980 Amy Burnett: Cheese.

165 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:45.150 David Morgan-Jones: And if they do exist, they tend to exist at a district council level, rather than at a parish council level.

166 00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:50.819 David Morgan-Jones: I can't say for towns, because they're much bigger beasts than some of the parish councils are.

167 00:18:52.120 --> 00:19:00.510 Amy Burnett: So do you not have, like, voluntary organisations or, kind of, community energy groups and, like, local church groups and things like that?

168 00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:05.240 David Morgan-Jones: We… we… I'm sure we do.

169 00:19:05.510 --> 00:19:09.979 David Morgan-Jones: I certainly think we've got, our local, church groups.

170 00:19:10.510 --> 00:19:17.020 David Morgan-Jones: And I know that there's, voluntary driver, structure, some various other little things going on.

171 00:19:17.290 --> 00:19:19.779 David Morgan-Jones: But because they have…

172 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:28.460 David Morgan-Jones: little or no relationship with the parish, the running of the parish council. They sort of operate in a parallel universe.

173 00:19:28.460 --> 00:19:29.240 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

174 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:44.980 Amy Burnett: And does that cause any issues in terms of getting things done in the community, or being more efficient, or resourcing, or just bringing things together? Like, in terms, you know, is that a big issue for a small rural community, for instance?

175 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:52.929 David Morgan-Jones: I don't think so. I mean, everybody just gets on with whatever they need to get on with, and our focus is about…

176 00:19:53.510 --> 00:19:56.290 David Morgan-Jones: Carrying out our statutory duties.

177 00:19:59.090 --> 00:20:13.539 David Morgan-Jones: and therein lies another conversation about relationship with district and county councils, but I won't go down that route unless you particularly want me to.

178 00:20:13.670 --> 00:20:18.030 David Morgan-Jones: Because that's a whole series of, power issues.

179 00:20:18.030 --> 00:20:18.520 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

180 00:20:18.610 --> 00:20:35.090 David Morgan-Jones: problems that are going on there. But in terms of our relationship with other voluntary units, where they want money, and where we can contribute to money, they will come to us asking for money to support what they're doing.

181 00:20:35.330 --> 00:20:41.579 David Morgan-Jones: And I'm sure if we wanted to tap into some of them, that wouldn't be a problem if we had a particular

182 00:20:43.510 --> 00:20:53.370 David Morgan-Jones: project in mind, but on the whole, we all sort of happily exist in parallel and sometimes untouching universes.

183 00:20:56.560 --> 00:20:58.070 Amy Burnett: Cool, thank you.

184 00:20:58.860 --> 00:21:01.509 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Moving on to David Newman, please.

185 00:21:03.570 --> 00:21:05.640 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Right.

186 00:21:08.780 --> 00:21:17.189 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): I've got some questions about governance that we'll leave till later, but I'll come straight onto your questions about what's happening locally.

187 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:28.310 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Most people in Blackbird Leeds, if you say, what's the parish council, they say, is that part of the church?

188 00:21:28.830 --> 00:21:31.740 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): So, for most people, we're unknown.

189 00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:38.860 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): On the other hand, there are… Lots of small community groups.

190 00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:54.260 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And a couple of… two or three really big, organized ones. And at the other end, groups of people who can't quite understand the documentation they need to get a bank account, and so they're not actually set up.

191 00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:57.299 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): I'll give you a few examples.

192 00:21:58.090 --> 00:22:08.080 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Recently, the Blackbird Leaves Adventure Playground came to a parish council meeting, because they'd just lost

193 00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:12.409 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Most of their funding from foundations.

194 00:22:12.650 --> 00:22:30.320 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): For the after-school club, where children come from school and spend time in the adventure playground, till their parents come from work, who couldn't actually afford childminders because the income in this area is…

195 00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:35.759 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): very low. We're one of the 20% most deprived areas in England.

196 00:22:36.570 --> 00:22:41.880 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And yes, we gave them money and worked with them and training to do that.

197 00:22:42.510 --> 00:22:44.260 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And there were a couple of

198 00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:53.490 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Groups that have been going for years, and have their boards, and work on that, the…

199 00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:00.369 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): with services to… Older people and young people.

200 00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:08.200 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): C… We don't

201 00:23:08.550 --> 00:23:17.269 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): actually run any services ourselves. It's all done by the City Council, and they don't let anyone else do that.

202 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.510 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And in communicating value.

203 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:34.870 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): There's lots of communication about how poor people are, but not about how people are doing things to solve it.

204 00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:36.660 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): It's very much…

205 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:48.529 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): An appeal to paternalists, and we get people coming in to do projects with no connection with the local community, and then they do it for two years, and then they disappear.

206 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.589 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): The… We've got…

207 00:23:54.010 --> 00:24:04.360 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): maybe 3 groups that are successful in communicating what's going here and making people realize that this isn't actually the murder capital of Oxford.

208 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:08.320 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): the…

209 00:24:08.620 --> 00:24:22.410 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And, at the other extreme, we're an area where reforms communication have had quite a big effect, and there are protests every two weeks against outside the hotel where the refugees stand.

210 00:24:26.530 --> 00:24:27.510 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): That's it.

211 00:24:27.690 --> 00:24:42.379 Amy Burnett: Thank you. No, that's… I think that's really helpful to talk about, like, what's not being measured, which is what we're going to talk about in a second as well. And yeah, this kind of issue of perception, and…

212 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.290 Amy Burnett: Yeah, the kind of being… being understood and… and miscommunication of…

213 00:24:47.470 --> 00:24:50.160 Amy Burnett: Expectation and things like that, so thank you.

214 00:24:50.990 --> 00:24:52.989 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Let me go on to Gary, in caution, please.

215 00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:59.579 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yeah, hi, I'm just waiting for my… Video to kick in.

216 00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:10.360 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: So, here in Corsham Town Council, we're very lucky that we have a very close and wide-ranging relationships with a huge number of community groups throughout

217 00:25:10.360 --> 00:25:23.599 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Corsham. They attend a lot of our events, they come along and, like, they have stalls and stuff. We help them in terms of grants. We actually set up and run a few community groups ourselves at Caution Town Council.

218 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:28.869 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Some of the other activities that we're doing, we've got, the Women's Institute there.

219 00:25:29.170 --> 00:25:38.809 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: They're, knitting 10,000 poppies for… to put on the church for Remembrance Day. They're actually at 30,000 because of all the help we've been giving them and support.

220 00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:53.779 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: what else we do? We just, yeah, like I say, we work with them very, very closely. We put… we, send volunteers their way as well. If they come to the town council and they're looking for volunteer opportunities, we send people

221 00:25:53.820 --> 00:26:02.609 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: to, like, the local food bank, or we put them onto other volunteer organisations. So, here in Corsham.

222 00:26:02.710 --> 00:26:12.130 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: As a town council, we have a very, very good working relationship with lots of these organizations. We provide them with lots of support, and it works really, really well.

223 00:26:16.610 --> 00:26:17.620 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: That's great.

224 00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:31.890 Amy Burnett: That's great, and, Gary, just… that's… that makes my heart really happy to hear about the church, because my grandfather and my grandmother and my uncle are all resting there, so, that's… that's really nice.

225 00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:39.410 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Also… Amy, you might be happy to hear then, also at the local church, we had about 30,

226 00:26:39.780 --> 00:26:46.749 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Rainbows and Beaver Scouts there last night, filling a massive bug hotel in the shape of the local

227 00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:49.630 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: country house, caution court.

228 00:26:49.810 --> 00:27:07.209 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: That we had built by the local, crafting shed for us, another community group. They built this big, massive hotel, bug hotel for us, and we had the rainbows and the beavers there last night, 30 of these tiny children, stuffing it full of sticks and twigs and grass and all sorts of stuff.

229 00:27:07.830 --> 00:27:08.350 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: That's.

230 00:27:08.350 --> 00:27:12.540 Amy Burnett: Really nice ecological citizenship in the church context, very nice.

231 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:20.099 Amy Burnett: That's really great. That's fantastic to hear. You play this, like, convening, supportive role. And I think, you know, the difference between

232 00:27:20.100 --> 00:27:31.199 Amy Burnett: you know, the town level and the kind of the, yeah, well, I guess, obviously, it's, like, population and the activity as well, but, you know, the opportunities to engage with the VCSE sector are sometimes

233 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:40.690 Amy Burnett: because of the size, higher in, you know, more urban areas than rural. But it'd be really interesting to kind of come back to that rural-urban

234 00:27:40.730 --> 00:27:45.629 Amy Burnett: question as we go through it, because I, you know, I'm very interested in rural issues,

235 00:27:45.860 --> 00:27:47.759 Amy Burnett: So, yeah, thank you.

236 00:27:49.090 --> 00:28:00.459 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: And may I have, my contribution to your questions is, first of all, to start with a question, which is, you mentioned something between $131,000 and, I think, $250,000-odd.

237 00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:11.790 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: organizations that fall into this definition. Are you aware of any, register of all these organizations that we would know that they exist?

238 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:25.219 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Because that leads me to my second point, which is the local parish council, as highlighted by David and by Gary, is often a focal point for the information.

239 00:28:25.330 --> 00:28:38.270 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: But I think it's very likely to be different with every parish council, because it's not a mandatory duty. So, we, for instance, in Bembridge, in the Isle of White, we hold a

240 00:28:38.290 --> 00:28:48.860 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Day every year, when we invite all the local voluntary organisations to come and display their wares to the community, so that we even know that they exist.

241 00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:54.039 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You're offering the first time, and then the parish council itself funds

242 00:28:54.170 --> 00:29:03.519 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: A community chest, if you will, from which money is parceled out to those organizations which ask for help.

243 00:29:03.730 --> 00:29:08.399 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: But it's, it's very small beer in compared to the overall title.

244 00:29:08.810 --> 00:29:09.670 Amy Burnett: Oops.

245 00:29:09.670 --> 00:29:24.289 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: So rather than answer your question specifically, I would just say generalize and say it varies hugely from place to place, and must depend upon, like everywhere, which individual is in charge and who, and what they're pushing for.

246 00:29:24.290 --> 00:29:43.599 Amy Burnett: Well, I think this also maybe is a question for Tristan, as well, because, you know, you've got things like, NCVO, which is the kind of voluntary… national voluntary organization, you've got Social Enterprise UK, you've got the Charity Commission, you've got all these kind of representative bodies which exist within the voluntary community, social enterprise and faith.

247 00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:53.310 Amy Burnett: sectors. So, you know, there is a kind of, like, national registration of such, through these bodies, but then, you know, obviously for the kind of grassroots

248 00:29:53.430 --> 00:30:09.229 Amy Burnett: time… time-bound or not formally registered voluntary organizations. That's, you know, it's quite a challenge to quantify that, but I know somebody, I don't know if any of you are aware of somebody called Paul White, but he did, a mapping exercise of all the voluntary community and social enterprises.

249 00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:24.570 Amy Burnett: in Somerset, and also try to assign a value to the kind of contributions that they generate, and he's worked on… with some kind of mapping software as well. And I'm just wondering whether there's a role for things like parish online, particularly with, devolution, as a means to kind of

250 00:30:24.570 --> 00:30:35.219 Amy Burnett: try and map out where these organizations exist. And then, I mean, Tristan and I have talked about indicators in Paris Online before, but then maybe, like, kind of try and quantify the value that they

251 00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:42.120 Amy Burnett: offer to the different things that are being mapped in a community. So, Tristan, I don't know if you've got any comments on that.

252 00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:47.529 tristram cary: Yeah, sort of, we're making slightly disappointingly slow progress, but we are working with Paul White.

253 00:30:47.530 --> 00:30:48.570 Amy Burnett: Oh, you are? Okay, great.

254 00:30:48.570 --> 00:30:57.019 tristram cary: Yes, we are. No, we are. And we're working with him in particular in Devon, so he's got some funding from… I can't remember which districts in Devon, but there's a group of them.

255 00:30:57.020 --> 00:30:57.680 Amy Burnett: Yeah.

256 00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.480 tristram cary: And, the idea…

257 00:30:59.610 --> 00:31:14.670 tristram cary: So in Paris Online, we, you know, what we can't do is sort of create the data. So we want to work with somebody who really knows it, and understands the sector and can work out what to… what to, you know, what to show. And actually, Graham's been involved, I think, a bit in that work as well with Paul.

258 00:31:14.670 --> 00:31:28.590 tristram cary: Because then the great collaboration would be another very good source of… maybe of information. So collecting it together is tough, but it's quite hard to know how to map it, because you… so what they have at the moment is a sort of… I think Paul's idea is to have

259 00:31:28.590 --> 00:31:34.959 tristram cary: A point on the map, which says, here's a voluntary organization, but then you have to say what its area is.

260 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:35.410 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

261 00:31:35.410 --> 00:31:53.910 tristram cary: and, you know, what its telephone number is, and what the manager is, and what sort of services it provides. And that's quite… it's quite hard to do that and get it right, so that's what Paul's working away at, and we're ready to support him when he's got data for us to put in. So we would love to have a voluntary sector organization sort of map.

262 00:31:54.260 --> 00:31:54.620 Amy Burnett: Mmm.

263 00:31:54.620 --> 00:32:12.489 tristram cary: it would be useful. But I think the other issue is maintaining it. It's quite difficult to get the data one-off, but then getting a system where it can be maintained so that it's always right. And there's nothing worse than having a map which is out of date, and you, you know, ring it, or you email, and there's no answer, because the organization has disappeared.

264 00:32:12.830 --> 00:32:15.079 Amy Burnett: And what's the role of AI in all of that?

265 00:32:15.380 --> 00:32:18.879 tristram cary: Good question. I don't know, but could be powerful, I agree.

266 00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:19.860 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

267 00:32:19.860 --> 00:32:30.870 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: I've worked with Paul on this, Amy, and he's… it's an extraordinary amount of data that he's presenting, and it looks beautifully colourful on the map. He's actually doing it in XMAP, which is sort of.

268 00:32:30.870 --> 00:32:31.220 Amy Burnett: could be.

269 00:32:31.220 --> 00:32:32.740 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: brother to perish online.

270 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:43.249 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: And, it looks gorgeous, but the issue is exactly what Tristan's listed, which is how do you keep the data up to date, and there's so much of it. Who's going to do the updating?

271 00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:44.940 Amy Burnett: And at what cost?

272 00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:45.630 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: But…

273 00:32:45.750 --> 00:32:52.039 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: I also wanted just to mention, before switching to David, who's also got his hand back up again,

274 00:32:52.040 --> 00:33:07.650 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: is that the village halls, I find, are a major source of information, because, of course, they tend to be booked by organizations to run. You know, they have the monthly coffee morning for the people supporting the local minibus, and then

275 00:33:07.650 --> 00:33:19.890 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Because all the organizations which are, you know, the LifeGroat Institute, and as someone else has mentioned, the Women's Institute and so forth, they all tend to use either the Methodist Church or the Village Hall for their

276 00:33:20.110 --> 00:33:29.509 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: activities, and so you could find out who's there, perhaps by looking at the Village Hall appointments, but it's just another source of information.

277 00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:30.190 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

278 00:33:30.190 --> 00:33:42.900 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: And then you've got, in the chat system, you've got quite a lot of questions and thoughts and ideas from people, which will be published at the end of the session, and David has got his hand up. That's David in heart.

279 00:33:44.530 --> 00:33:48.339 David Morgan-Jones: Actually, one for you, Tristan, really.

280 00:33:49.770 --> 00:34:03.289 David Morgan-Jones: And picking up Amy's point about, the problem with a lot of, parish councils, as you clearly alluded, we're all volunteers. A lot of people are not necessarily terribly proactive about going out and hunting information.

281 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:11.389 David Morgan-Jones: So, if you want information presented to the parish councils, it has to be done.

282 00:34:11.570 --> 00:34:14.860 David Morgan-Jones: In a way where you're almost force-feeding information.

283 00:34:15.310 --> 00:34:26.159 David Morgan-Jones: In a way that's quick and easy to read, but also needs to be democratized so that it's visible to the parish as a whole.

284 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.540 David Morgan-Jones: So that if something's missing, Then they can…

285 00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:36.239 David Morgan-Jones: People can then say, this isn't here, or that isn't here.

286 00:34:37.250 --> 00:34:46.690 David Morgan-Jones: And so it strikes me that we almost need… Some sort of, dashboard.

287 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:48.300 David Morgan-Jones: that is…

288 00:34:48.460 --> 00:35:06.740 David Morgan-Jones: broadly structured the same for every parish and town, but the information in the various components is automatically updated to meet the needs of that particular parish. And whilst it's fabulous to have it GI, you know, put it onto a map.

289 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.460 David Morgan-Jones: Actually, in a way, a list would… a simple list

290 00:35:10.850 --> 00:35:15.649 David Morgan-Jones: You know, so for the… for example, the… The power… the voluntary

291 00:35:16.270 --> 00:35:19.620 David Morgan-Jones: Elements available for us to be used in the parish.

292 00:35:19.770 --> 00:35:21.509 David Morgan-Jones: As a simple list.

293 00:35:21.650 --> 00:35:27.429 David Morgan-Jones: Would be just as powerful as a… something that… that is… that is mapped… that… that is mapped.

294 00:35:28.700 --> 00:35:30.869 David Morgan-Jones: So it's a question of how do you…

295 00:35:32.080 --> 00:35:36.919 David Morgan-Jones: identify the information, and as Tristan points out, how do you maintain it?

296 00:35:37.040 --> 00:35:44.609 David Morgan-Jones: And then how do you project it in a way that busy… Not necessarily interested.

297 00:35:45.310 --> 00:35:51.269 David Morgan-Jones: counsellors, and Clark's, also sometimes not that interested.

298 00:35:51.410 --> 00:35:56.630 David Morgan-Jones: Can actually gain access to the information quickly and easily.

299 00:35:57.640 --> 00:36:02.009 tristram cary: But, David, I'd also say that members of the public, you know, it's not… it's not just…

300 00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:02.550 David Morgan-Jones: Oh, absolutely.

301 00:36:02.550 --> 00:36:05.530 tristram cary: The individual who says, you know, where can I get support for such and such?

302 00:36:05.530 --> 00:36:11.629 David Morgan-Jones: That's why I said it needs to be democratized, and it needs to be visible to the totality of the parish.

303 00:36:11.630 --> 00:36:21.490 tristram cary: Yeah, but our idea for that is quite clear. We would use a public map, so Paul's idea is that when he's got this database, which would be on a map, but you're right, it could equally be.

304 00:36:21.610 --> 00:36:35.669 David Morgan-Jones: But, I mean, I think we need to almost… that's why I sort of pointed it slightly at you, Tristan, because in a way, what you're starting to evolve within Paris Online, for example, is a hybrid between

305 00:36:35.970 --> 00:36:40.370 David Morgan-Jones: Mapping, which is what your principal's software started off as.

306 00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:42.949 David Morgan-Jones: And simple data presentation.

307 00:36:43.080 --> 00:36:45.940 David Morgan-Jones: So, for example, if we go back to the EPC discussion.

308 00:36:46.050 --> 00:36:52.630 David Morgan-Jones: I don't need… I need a map, I also need a list. And so it's about presenting information.

309 00:36:52.820 --> 00:36:56.790 David Morgan-Jones: in different ways, through the same GUI interface.

310 00:36:57.070 --> 00:37:05.730 tristram cary: Yeah, I think we can do that. I was going to say first, I'll come back to your second point, but the first point to sort of democratize it. We can put, from Parish Online, you can publish a map.

311 00:37:05.730 --> 00:37:06.680 David Morgan-Jones: Yeah, no, absolutely.

312 00:37:06.680 --> 00:37:09.930 tristram cary: into a public map, which is accessible by residents, and they can.

313 00:37:09.930 --> 00:37:10.640 David Morgan-Jones: Right.

314 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:24.590 tristram cary: you have access to that. In terms of the data, although we've got a map form, we can also have a list view, so we can produce, you know, we can produce a list of data just as well, and that could also be put by the council into a public-facing website.

315 00:37:24.590 --> 00:37:33.480 tristram cary: So I think that from where I sit, the main problem is to get data which is of high enough quality that it can be published and used reliably.

316 00:37:34.640 --> 00:37:42.220 David Morgan-Jones: Just as a… sorry, David, I don't mean to butt in, but I'll just finish off.

317 00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:48.750 David Morgan-Jones: when I was in a previous world, I ran…

318 00:37:49.100 --> 00:37:59.390 David Morgan-Jones: dashboards down to every single, we had over, you know, 400 or 500, separate entities, each with their own dashboard.

319 00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:06.089 David Morgan-Jones: Once you actually give individuals their own dashboards, the quality of the data then becomes much better.

320 00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:10.720 David Morgan-Jones: Because they have an invested interest in actually maintaining the data set.

321 00:38:10.990 --> 00:38:16.760 David Morgan-Jones: Now that's not ser… not so necessary with a council on an individual level.

322 00:38:17.030 --> 00:38:21.430 David Morgan-Jones: But you would certainly get a lot of feedback, about…

323 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:31.110 David Morgan-Jones: the quality of the data that's there that could be self-maintaining. A huge conversation in its own right, so I'll stop now and hand it over to David. Sorry, David.

324 00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:41.039 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Yes, I just… Just wanted to mention that…

325 00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:50.160 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): This isn't necessarily something done centrally or by a parish council. It's often done by community newspapers.

326 00:38:50.390 --> 00:39:06.239 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Where I live, we used to get a lease news every month, and now there's a group setting up a website to share news of events and every organization in the area. It's in testing at the moment. So the…

327 00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:12.960 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Journalism sector may be the one that best works on this task.

328 00:39:15.530 --> 00:39:16.690 Amy Burnett: Pink,

329 00:39:16.950 --> 00:39:20.830 Amy Burnett: Because I don't actually know what the time is, because I can't see what the time… can somebody tell me what it is?

330 00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:22.349 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Well, 34.

331 00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:40.849 Amy Burnett: Okay, I'm going to, characterize… I haven't shown you the value typology yet, so, but I think it's all very helpful to kind of think about how we map things and how we communicate things, because that's all part of this conversation about value as well. So I'm just gonna, run you through this

332 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:54.749 Amy Burnett: rationale for developing, typology. And essentially it's to try and think about what is and isn't being measured. But, it would be really, you know, that you can… so social return on investment is a really,

333 00:39:55.080 --> 00:40:13.459 Amy Burnett: one methodology… one methodology you can use to kind of put a kind of value… price value on… on the kind of contributions that, people might be making, or organizations might be making to social value and society. But there are also lots of other frameworks, tools, approaches that can do that.

334 00:40:13.460 --> 00:40:18.289 Amy Burnett: And… but also, it's really important, I think, to kind of think about

335 00:40:18.290 --> 00:40:39.879 Amy Burnett: all the different types of value as well, so maybe not just social value, but there's lots of other types of value. So, what this work that I've been working with was somebody called Catherine Wilder, who came in, to help me at the end of my fellowship to kind of think about this VCSE value mapper tool, which we're going to work on further, but, is actually trying to,

336 00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:57.020 Amy Burnett: capture, like, the shadow value, and by that, it's meant, like, the things that are not being measured at the moment, but are clearly of value, to people, and how you actually identify what that value is, and how it might be measured, and revealed in a way that could actually be used to,

337 00:40:57.020 --> 00:41:03.770 Amy Burnett: inform, better… well, not better, but just, you know, more efficient, resource…

338 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:24.329 Amy Burnett: yeah, directing resources. So, that's what, I wanted just to run you through. And some of the things that might not be measured easily, I mean, we've heard a couple of examples already, but, you know, the social connections that reduce loneliness, developing local skills, through volunteering.

339 00:41:24.520 --> 00:41:44.340 Amy Burnett: pride of place, I know that's kind of a policy term at the moment, but also, like, you know, cohesion and community ownership and the environmental benefits and how they sit with social benefits, and also, like, you know, the kind of community wealth building aspect of making sure that money circulates through local value chains, etc.

340 00:41:44.620 --> 00:41:45.720 Amy Burnett: So…

341 00:41:45.800 --> 00:42:10.769 Amy Burnett: I wanted just to quickly ask, before I present the typology, and then the kind of plans that we have going forward, and how you can get involved, what are the kind of main challenges that you face when thinking about valuing community activities and outcomes? So that might be something that you're doing in the community, or, you know, maybe it might be to do with, like, a planning application, or, that's… that you feel isn't being

342 00:42:10.770 --> 00:42:15.129 Amy Burnett: captured, or it might be that you're trying to support a community organization

343 00:42:15.130 --> 00:42:30.650 Amy Burnett: do something, and you want to kind of help them demonstrate the measurement of that, or maybe there are, gaps in your capacity or knowledge of awareness of tools, et cetera, to kind of measure, yeah, the contribution that

344 00:42:30.680 --> 00:42:41.890 Amy Burnett: the community is having in one way or another, and what do you need, or do you need less of? So, there's some kind of other questions before I present the typology and the ideas behind it.

345 00:42:46.660 --> 00:42:50.369 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Either human, your first sophomore, off the mic.

346 00:42:51.750 --> 00:42:57.070 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Right, your second question comes… just…

347 00:42:57.430 --> 00:43:05.689 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Two weeks after two-thirds of our parish were selected as an area for the Pride in Place program.

348 00:43:06.030 --> 00:43:08.180 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And we're just trying to learn about

349 00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:13.040 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And one day, after we had

350 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:19.069 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): an online conversation with the county council, which is trying to work out

351 00:43:19.550 --> 00:43:26.329 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): How they do local governance in their proposals for devolution.

352 00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:28.230 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): All of this…

353 00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:40.759 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): In the shadow of a central government that hasn't sought everything through, and comes up with unusual different things at the whim of a minister.

354 00:43:42.750 --> 00:43:47.880 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): So… How work changes under devolution.

355 00:43:48.010 --> 00:43:54.429 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): It's something we're being asked, apart from… And even where there's…

356 00:43:54.570 --> 00:44:04.199 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): hints in government approaches under the… specifically under the pride in place with local boards. That's incredibly vague.

357 00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:22.450 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And it's meant to bring all the community organisations into a board to decide a way forward. It was much easier when it was just us… when we didn't have that, and we were just steadily working forward on producing a neighbourhood plan, contacting all these people.

358 00:44:26.130 --> 00:44:28.019 Amy Burnett: Hmm. Okay.

359 00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:31.990 Amy Burnett: So the governance is getting more complex.

360 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:34.420 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And uncertain.

361 00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:36.320 Amy Burnett: How you gonna… Yeah.

362 00:44:40.430 --> 00:44:45.499 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: No, well, the hand's up, Amy, so you're free to proceed.

363 00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:53.209 tristram cary: I've just put my hand up. I just, just wanted to say another thing that strikes me is that a lot of the value that goes on in our little

364 00:44:53.810 --> 00:45:08.250 tristram cary: community, our parish, is outside the parish council. So there's, first of all, the church, working very much day-to-day with people who have needs to help supply them, and quite often, that's a completely voluntary network of

365 00:45:08.510 --> 00:45:19.849 tristram cary: you know, the vicar will ring somebody up and say, would you mind fetching somebody, or, you know, providing some sort of service? So that's… that's not measured at all, but I wonder if it's… I wonder if it's important that it is measured.

366 00:45:20.090 --> 00:45:27.119 Amy Burnett: Well, that's what I… yeah, it was kind of like, you know, there's… the way I see it, anyway, is like, you have the town and parish councillors

367 00:45:27.220 --> 00:45:40.220 Amy Burnett: who are, in effect, like, volunteers themselves, who are, in my view anyway, part of the, BCSE sector, in a way. And, you know, that… that… there is… there seems to be a disconnect, between

368 00:45:40.350 --> 00:45:49.879 Amy Burnett: Having it as a kind of community-valued, valuation of the entire, you know, what's going on in the community, because of the way that things are…

369 00:45:49.880 --> 00:46:00.649 Amy Burnett: Often in silos and stuff, so it'd be a very interesting question to explore, whether or not the parish council or town council should play more of an active role in

370 00:46:00.980 --> 00:46:15.649 Amy Burnett: saying, well, this, you know, this is part of what we're doing as well, because we're all in the same area, and kind of having shared metrics and shared approaches, supporting each other with the measurement of what they're doing. So that's kind of, yeah, what I'd like to kind of lead into.

371 00:46:15.970 --> 00:46:16.990 Amy Burnett: In a minute.

372 00:46:18.030 --> 00:46:18.969 tristram cary: Okay, thank you.

373 00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:35.540 Amy Burnett: So this is a… looks a bit complicated. I basically came up with this after reading a particular book, but I just thought it was actually… because there's a lot of talk about growth, but actually, there's also… not everything can grow all the time, and there are these processes of, like, stability, and

374 00:46:35.540 --> 00:46:41.110 Amy Burnett: what is valued might grow, or what is undervalued may not grow. And so there's…

375 00:46:41.230 --> 00:46:58.770 Amy Burnett: there's a kind of relationship between what's valued, what then grows, and what stabilizes, and all of that will shift over time, and there are many aspects that are even not captured here. I didn't want to make it too complicated, but, you know, you could think of, like, these three

376 00:46:58.770 --> 00:47:21.889 Amy Burnett: elements operating as, like, a growth system, so you've got, like, vibrancy, thriving, ambition, opportunity, investment, and it's quite expansive, and it's developmental, and it's not all about money. And then you've got, like, a value system, which is about recognition, it's about your culture, it's about being honoured, it's about the expectations you have to deliver certain roles or learn behaviors that you may have from, you know, your family or culture, etc.

377 00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:35.200 Amy Burnett: So it's about meaning-making and identity as well. And then you've got, like, a stabilizing system or a stability system, which is about resilience, capacity, support, being able to kind of, you know, sustain your current situation. It's kind of like a foundational

378 00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:46.649 Amy Burnett: structure that enables you to kind of be resilient and endure challenges. So, you know, they interplay in complex ways, and so it was kind of thinking about this, which made me think, well, actually, the way that we look at

379 00:47:46.780 --> 00:48:02.340 Amy Burnett: Value has to also be quite multidimensional, as well, and also consider these temporal ebbs and flows, and the fact that some things may stabilize for a bit, and sometimes grow, and just, you know, that's… that's life, and embrace that kind of complexity a little bit.

380 00:48:02.490 --> 00:48:10.819 Amy Burnett: So I came up with this, value typology, which is looking at… so, so based on my interviews and…

381 00:48:11.070 --> 00:48:15.120 David Morgan-Jones: Amy, can I… can I just, pause you for two sec? Sorry to interrupt.

382 00:48:15.120 --> 00:48:15.699 Amy Burnett: No, that's fine.

383 00:48:15.700 --> 00:48:20.920 David Morgan-Jones: Could you go back to the, the telecom.

384 00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:31.289 David Morgan-Jones: I'm not sure… growth is necessarily the right word to use. I just reflect on my own

385 00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:32.760 David Morgan-Jones: our own.

386 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.240 David Morgan-Jones: parish.

387 00:48:35.650 --> 00:48:39.350 David Morgan-Jones: What we'd like to see is a lot of those adjectives

388 00:48:39.650 --> 00:48:46.150 David Morgan-Jones: Vibrancy, thriving, ambition, human learning. But it's more about self-sustaining.

389 00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:53.150 David Morgan-Jones: Or self-sustainment. I would like to see youngsters coming into the parish, staying in the parish.

390 00:48:53.420 --> 00:49:00.769 David Morgan-Jones: Growing with the parish. And so, as a… as a… as a population, we've become self-sustaining.

391 00:49:01.080 --> 00:49:07.389 David Morgan-Jones: We can't do that, because, unfortunately, due to the prices of properties, it's extremely difficult to do that.

392 00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:11.339 David Morgan-Jones: But we don't want to see growth per se.

393 00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:12.580 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

394 00:49:12.580 --> 00:49:18.180 David Morgan-Jones: Unfortunately, I have a feeling that will be enforced on us, whether we like it or not.

395 00:49:18.350 --> 00:49:25.750 David Morgan-Jones: And a certain small amount of growth in terms of numbers, population, population density.

396 00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:31.199 David Morgan-Jones: Because, of course, with increasing population comes increasing complexity and increasing problems.

397 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:39.010 David Morgan-Jones: And so I'm not sure growth… stability… Value, potentially.

398 00:49:39.230 --> 00:49:47.449 David Morgan-Jones: is… are the most… most appropriate descriptors. I don't know what… what you would use in lieu, but I think it… it's not helpful.

399 00:49:48.010 --> 00:49:56.840 Amy Burnett: Yeah, okay, that's cool. So what about, like, regenerative as a kind of, like, set of growth? Because you talked about, it's almost like a new life force, or a new, you know…

400 00:49:56.840 --> 00:50:04.979 David Morgan-Jones: But it's about, you know, we are constantly told that in order to improve a country, it needs to constantly grow.

401 00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:05.840 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

402 00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:14.080 David Morgan-Jones: But actually, I… I'm not sure that that's actually a particularly valid argument. I think you can grow in terms of things like in,

403 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:21.169 David Morgan-Jones: technology, But when you've got a certain geographic space, you don't want to increase the population.

404 00:50:21.330 --> 00:50:32.779 David Morgan-Jones: Because what that then has is it increases the amount of housing demand and all the rest of it, which has massive impacts in terms of biodiversity, energy requirements, etc. So.

405 00:50:33.100 --> 00:50:37.750 David Morgan-Jones: There is an argument for just a self-sustaining communities

406 00:50:38.200 --> 00:50:40.890 David Morgan-Jones: But that's not necessarily linked with growth.

407 00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:48.469 Amy Burnett: I think that's why I put tipping points quite low down, because it's kind of like a limits to growth kind of thing, where then things just need to…

408 00:50:48.660 --> 00:50:57.410 Amy Burnett: you know, go into a process of stabilization, because they've kind of reached that limit. But I mean, the main reason why I did that was just because I was trying to

409 00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:02.639 Amy Burnett: challenge the understanding of what growth means, in a certain context, but, you know.

410 00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:06.000 David Morgan-Jones: Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it is about context.

411 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:20.500 Amy Burnett: So, but that's a helpful point to not make it seem like I'm really, really, trying to push the growth agenda when I do actually put this out, more publicly. So, but yes, thank you. That's, that's cool.

412 00:51:22.850 --> 00:51:41.990 Amy Burnett: And that's also, like, the developmental phases is also meant to be, like, a kind of, you know, as you reach a certain level of maturity, and you need to move, and you need to grow, and you need to change, then, yeah, that's kind of why it's, like, on the edge of that as well. But, okay. Any more questions?

413 00:51:41.990 --> 00:51:42.400 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yes.

414 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:43.409 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): I was going to say…

415 00:51:43.410 --> 00:51:44.259 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Sand up. Yep.

416 00:51:45.100 --> 00:51:51.170 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): I was going to say, you can pick terms to use from donut economics.

417 00:51:52.050 --> 00:52:00.029 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): That has already looked through the difference between what you're doing to overcome meet

418 00:52:00.510 --> 00:52:10.479 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Local needs, but not exceed the The, environmental limits.

419 00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:16.359 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And there's a whole load of… Thinking about that, that…

420 00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:17.140 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

421 00:52:17.140 --> 00:52:18.030 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): you could…

422 00:52:18.630 --> 00:52:26.680 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Put back into what is, in case your case, a flow diagram, which isn't the same as the

423 00:52:28.300 --> 00:52:35.970 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Diagram of different… Different issues and health and weather locally you are…

424 00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:42.879 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): On the too low, or too high, or in the nice donuts, which is a nice way to live.

425 00:52:43.270 --> 00:52:50.449 Amy Burnett: Yeah, no, I'm very well… I'm very aware of, Kate Rayworth's work, but I was just kind of… was trying to think about these different,

426 00:52:50.590 --> 00:53:03.449 Amy Burnett: how value sits into the particular context of, like, stability and change and stuff, but yes, no, I can… I will have a look at her book again and see if there's any, insight that can be used.

427 00:53:03.670 --> 00:53:08.199 Amy Burnett: So in terms of, like, the value typology, how much time have I got now?

428 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:17.089 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: It's up to you, Amy. People tend to hang on past the hour if they wish to.

429 00:53:17.090 --> 00:53:18.949 Amy Burnett: Is it 10-2 quarter 2?

430 00:53:21.570 --> 00:53:23.610 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: It's about 10-2 at the moment.

431 00:53:23.610 --> 00:53:28.309 Amy Burnett: Okay, all right, well, I'll just, so I just want to whiz through this, because, so…

432 00:53:28.430 --> 00:53:31.630 Amy Burnett: I can share these slides with you another time, but essentially.

433 00:53:31.730 --> 00:53:48.600 Amy Burnett: there are possible ways of, like, looking at different types of valuation. So, you know, you've got your monetary cost-benefit analysis, which is used quite a lot by policy makers and programmers. Then there's this idea around being recognized, and your reputation and being appreciated, so there's, like, an appreciative value.

434 00:53:48.600 --> 00:54:07.739 Amy Burnett: So there are summary questions, you know, that you could look at from that value perspective. So, you know, is it going to save me money? Will I be recognized for my work? From a capitals perspective? So, is it contributing to social, human, infrastructure, natural, cultural value, which are kind of, you know, sometimes measured in certain capitals?

435 00:54:07.740 --> 00:54:25.579 Amy Burnett: There's also whether it's improving governance and culture, is it forcing more positive business models or democratic, we talked about democratizing data earlier, community assets and ownership, so thinking about what's, you know, delivered or, owned or supported by VCSEs or,

436 00:54:25.640 --> 00:54:38.920 Amy Burnett: town and parish council sector, etc. There's also, like, the value chains, which are really interesting, because we were talking about scale in one context the other day, and we're talking about what's the, kind of, the right scale, and in a way, you could think about, well.

437 00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:51.569 Amy Burnett: you know, how… how supply chains travel is another way of thinking about scale as well. So, so thinking about, like, how different organizations, obviously there's lots of opportunities for

438 00:54:52.090 --> 00:55:04.240 Amy Burnett: voluntary community and social enterprises to get involved in procurement these days, so thinking about the positive benefits in that. Whether it's meeting a personal value and your intrinsic motivation to kind of, you know, exist in the world.

439 00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:16.460 Amy Burnett: Also regenerative value, so thinking about how things positively reinforce something else. So, you know, that supply chain, decision that you're going to make, is it then going to lead… are you going to buy it from a good

440 00:55:16.470 --> 00:55:35.139 Amy Burnett: company or a bad company kind of thing. So, you know, the decisions that we make can amplify other types of value as well. And then also, like, you know, are you a supporting policy influence? And that might be, at different levels of government. I'm sorry, the value change perspective, that's a duplicate, so I can get rid of that one.

441 00:55:35.330 --> 00:55:43.850 Amy Burnett: And then just very quickly thinking about the metrics, so I looked at different, frameworks and tools and those kind of things, and thinking about across these different value types.

442 00:55:43.850 --> 00:55:57.299 Amy Burnett: what is quite well developed in those areas, and what's underdeveloped, and where's, like, an opportunity, to maybe go a little bit beyond in terms of thinking about how we might measure these different elements of value. I haven't got time to look at that

443 00:55:57.730 --> 00:56:01.439 Amy Burnett: with you another moment, but you can look at it in the slides.

444 00:56:01.570 --> 00:56:07.780 Amy Burnett: And so what we… what Catherine and I were trying to look at… so what I wanted to do was thinking about, well, if there is this…

445 00:56:07.940 --> 00:56:25.900 Amy Burnett: potential opportunity to look at value from a different way, a multiple way. You know, how might we do that? What do we need to do? So, there are some options, which is kind of think about, combining different types of measurement and tools with, with others.

446 00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:31.709 Amy Burnett: Focusing on those missing or underdeveloped, indicator areas that I've just, on the previous slide.

447 00:56:32.010 --> 00:56:46.809 Amy Burnett: thinking about creating interoperable, tools and systems, there's a lot of work kind of going on, in this area across, people who are developing technological solutions. You know, they talk about APIs which can connect different data sets, etc.

448 00:56:46.970 --> 00:57:04.270 Amy Burnett: And also thinking about, yeah, like, how you… how tools can start to think about, valuing different types of data and… that can reflect the kind of typology. The typology may not be perfect, but I think it's helpful to

449 00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:08.300 Amy Burnett: Think in, in, you know, think about that multiple interactive way.

450 00:57:08.530 --> 00:57:23.809 Amy Burnett: So, you know, what you might want to do is thinking about how individual activities can relate to systemic transformation, or how value flows, move within an organization, how things change over time, also thinking about, you know, that kind of

451 00:57:24.090 --> 00:57:29.820 Amy Burnett: holy grail of what's your impact? And also thinking about how does

452 00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:47.829 Amy Burnett: your value, support, you know, through the networks and partnerships that you have, how does that enhance the relationships that you have, so that maybe that's the town and parish council working with, you know, the new, new, unitary authorities, or the VCSE sector, or local businesses, or whatever.

453 00:57:48.040 --> 00:58:06.970 Amy Burnett: So what we are looking to do in a follow-up, project is to kind of… we've kind of got so far in terms of our thinking of what a VCSE value mapper could look like. We've looked at a taxonomy, thoughts about, like, how the micro-actions that you can do that are linked to the different value types could then,

454 00:58:06.970 --> 00:58:23.079 Amy Burnett: show that you are making a difference, making a change, and how that can be measured across different indicators. So, what we'd like to be able to do is, map the kind of relationship between what you do to, you know, what gets,

455 00:58:23.490 --> 00:58:26.890 Amy Burnett: What the outcomes are, and maybe the impact as well.

456 00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:36.199 Amy Burnett: But then also kind of look at it through this value lens, and try and integrate that into kind of things like place-based mapping, but also, like, supporting

457 00:58:36.200 --> 00:58:52.100 Amy Burnett: A live way where if, say, for instance, you had a tool where you could map your value, so that could be your current actions, or maybe projects that you want to get involved in, and also that was to reveal the things that aren't getting measured at the moment.

458 00:58:52.100 --> 00:59:01.680 Amy Burnett: And that could then help, support you to kind of say, well, actually, we want to do this, we are doing this, we're actually generating this amount of value.

459 00:59:01.710 --> 00:59:12.759 Amy Burnett: And so that's your kind of accounting for your shadow value. But also, maybe if there was, like, if government had, or other funders that were funding VCSEs or other,

460 00:59:12.910 --> 00:59:32.369 Amy Burnett: groups could then have that attached to an expectation. If you are going to, get some funding, then you need to fill out this kind of value mapper, and then it could kind of almost be like live information that could be given to the funder, so that they can have a better understanding of, of the kind of the baseline

461 00:59:32.370 --> 00:59:42.529 Amy Burnett: And then the improvement over time. So, it's a kind of monitoring and evaluation tool, but it also helps to identify what the value is across multiple lenses.

462 00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.290 Amy Burnett: So,

463 00:59:45.410 --> 01:00:01.920 Amy Burnett: essentially, it's whether or not you can… would like to know more about this, and get involved. So, Catherine and I are kind of looking for people to test the tool, that we have kind of worked on so far, which would help to kind of generate, a value report for you.

464 01:00:02.040 --> 01:00:15.510 Amy Burnett: And also help you uncover your shadow value, so the things that aren't necessarily being measured and appreciated, which might be able to help access funding and resources and communicate that to others, maybe, you know, like in your parish newsletter or whatever.

465 01:00:15.510 --> 01:00:40.190 Amy Burnett: And helping you to maximize the value of others, so that might be supporting the VCSEs in your, organization, in your community, etc. I'm just going to skip over that stuff, but there are some examples, some indicators that you might want to, consider, or maybe you are considering, but there's obviously loads, loads more. And there's a… almost identical to those pictures, but that's,

466 01:00:40.190 --> 01:00:44.450 Amy Burnett: That's me and Catherine. And if you want to get in touch, then please do.

467 01:00:48.990 --> 01:00:58.410 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: That was brilliant, Amy, thank you very much. I suspect that a lot of people are sort of walking around with their heads shaking at the moment, thinking.

468 01:00:58.410 --> 01:00:59.040 Amy Burnett: You know what I mean?

469 01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:15.490 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: around this. I do have a question that may lead on to others, which is, how many of the parish councils that you are talking to, or have talked to, actually even appreciate the idea of putting a monetary value on what they're doing?

470 01:01:15.730 --> 01:01:16.270 Amy Burnett: Hmm.

471 01:01:16.270 --> 01:01:32.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Because I can see that the whole idea of having the government recognize these shadow values and therefore put some funding to it would be extremely popular if anybody knew how to value their own services. But I'm sure it's a fairly new idea to many parish councils, isn't it?

472 01:01:32.490 --> 01:01:39.420 Amy Burnett: Yeah. Yeah, we are kind of at the beginning, really, of this, journey in talking to parish and Town Council, so it's kind of like a bit of a new…

473 01:01:39.420 --> 01:02:03.850 Amy Burnett: yes, it's very, very early days, but I think, you know, if you wanted to kind of create more resilient, localised supply chains, etc, and then you could kind of evidence that, or if you kind of… you could think about how this could be an opportunity to reorientate, resources, or even to kind of map the value that you have within your parish and town council from all the, you know, experience that you've had.

474 01:02:03.930 --> 01:02:23.239 Amy Burnett: in industry or whatever, that can sometimes be overshadowed. So it's kind of like… it's an opportunity to kind of really lay bare the resources and the assets that individuals, organizations, parish town councils, you know, and the relational, the relationships that you have that may not necessarily, you know, like Tristan mentioned about

475 01:02:23.240 --> 01:02:25.149 Amy Burnett: The organization that's

476 01:02:25.160 --> 01:02:44.080 Amy Burnett: doing certain things, but not necessarily, being linked up with the parish and Town Council. So I think there's, you know, there's a whole load of untapped potential, I think, in terms of articulating, measuring value, and it could, if it kind of works out as planned, you know, help rethink governance resourcing potential and…

477 01:02:44.180 --> 01:02:48.030 Amy Burnett: Yeah, basically uncovering a lot of stuff that isn't uncovered at the moment.

478 01:02:48.650 --> 01:02:56.349 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Well, whenever I'm asked to think of a town or parish council that is in the lead on all these things, the name Froome, or his.

479 01:02:56.780 --> 01:03:06.109 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: mind, and you'll see in the chat that Froome is very carefully offering to be involved with your VCSE working in partnership.

480 01:03:06.110 --> 01:03:17.320 Amy Burnett: Brilliant. Well, thank you. You know, I, I did my PhD on Froome, and I wrote a book on… this is all about Froome. Yeah, well…

481 01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:22.330 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: And now you've got caution pitching in as well. Oh, that's right. The West Country is clearly way ahead of the.

482 01:03:23.700 --> 01:03:24.819 Amy Burnett: So.

483 01:03:25.380 --> 01:03:36.910 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: The chat will be produced on our knowledge base, but if you wanted to keep track of all these things now, you can indeed save the chat to your own computer, Amy. Are you familiar with doing that in Zoom?

484 01:03:37.220 --> 01:03:42.960 Amy Burnett: I will just note it down first in case I lose it, but yes, I think I know how to do it if it's allowed.

485 01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:43.470 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: I mean, I've.

486 01:03:43.470 --> 01:03:44.710 Amy Burnett: But that's great.

487 01:03:44.710 --> 01:03:57.910 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: I will have a copy, but just if you wanted to make a record now, because you've got those links there, good. And David, you just dropped your hand, David Newman, so did you forget, or sorry, you didn't want to raise a point?

488 01:03:57.910 --> 01:04:01.349 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): I thought as we were running out of time, I'd just type it in, but…

489 01:04:01.660 --> 01:04:06.449 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): It sounds to do this properly, you need paid people.

490 01:04:06.740 --> 01:04:10.929 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): And it sounds more on the scale of a neighborhood board.

491 01:04:12.310 --> 01:04:19.750 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): Which, of course, would be part of a government program to spend 20 million pounds.

492 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:29.099 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): So that was what occurred to me when it dis… or a well-funded research project, rather than just

493 01:04:29.730 --> 01:04:39.209 David Newman (Blackbird Leys): At the level of our parish council, if we were doing it unfunded, the most you'd get, perhaps, is a power map knocked up in an afternoon?

494 01:04:43.500 --> 01:04:44.190 tristram cary: Yeah.

495 01:04:44.680 --> 01:04:47.240 tristram cary: I think it's really good to have some…

496 01:04:47.350 --> 01:04:50.649 tristram cary: Sort of guinea pig councils to do this with.

497 01:04:50.830 --> 01:05:00.719 tristram cary: Because it worries me that these things get rather fragmented. If there are masses of people doing different academic studies, they, you know, maybe the results are never filter down to the real users.

498 01:05:01.010 --> 01:05:13.359 tristram cary: So to have those councils as guinea pigs would be great, I think. And also, to work with Paul White, who I know he's been… he's trying to work out some sort of valuation and measurement

499 01:05:13.540 --> 01:05:16.700 tristram cary: Stats, but you're obviously working with him, so that's really good.

500 01:05:17.610 --> 01:05:20.249 Amy Burnett: Yeah, no, I'm very closely linked, Paul, yeah.

501 01:05:20.390 --> 01:05:28.859 tristram cary: And if you want to use XMAP as a mapping tool that can interface with parish websites, we, you know, that will also be very useful, I think.

502 01:05:29.330 --> 01:05:31.430 tristram cary: Which Paul is already doing.

503 01:05:31.690 --> 01:05:37.730 Amy Burnett: Yeah, well, I can keep that connection with you and Paul going, and yeah, no, that's great. I have,

504 01:05:38.030 --> 01:05:40.940 Amy Burnett: Yes, that's really, really great to have,

505 01:05:41.370 --> 01:05:46.310 Amy Burnett: Gary and Sam involved. That's really wonderful, thank you.

506 01:05:46.640 --> 01:06:01.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Great. Well, it's been a really fascinating session, because I've learned so much in the way of new terminology and new ideas, so thank you very much. Does anybody else have any more questions for Amy, please? Or they'd like to carry on offline with her?

507 01:06:01.940 --> 01:06:02.960 tristram cary: I need to go.

508 01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:04.399 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: I think most of us need.

509 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:07.660 tristram cary: I need a week to digest what you told us.

510 01:06:07.660 --> 01:06:12.760 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: It's heavy stuff, Amy, but thank you very much. Much appreciated.

511 01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:20.780 Amy Burnett: Yeah, and I'm sorry about the, the kind of the two figures. So, the, the 70… so I've just… the thing that… the 16.8.

512 01:06:20.780 --> 01:06:22.049 tristram cary: 60 in September.

513 01:06:23.150 --> 01:06:37.949 Amy Burnett: Yeah, I don't know… I don't quite know how that got in there, but it's, definitely, yes, I… the other… the other facts are… are accurate at the point of which, I, looked at them. But yes, so 16.A, I'll correct that before it goes out.

514 01:06:37.950 --> 01:06:39.140 tristram cary: Thank you, thank you.

515 01:06:39.540 --> 01:06:41.040 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Okay, so I normally…

516 01:06:41.040 --> 01:06:41.620 tristram cary: Great.

517 01:06:41.990 --> 01:06:51.609 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: try and these meetings by just letting people know what's coming next week. Next week, we have, creating community sustainability hubs, so…

518 01:06:52.110 --> 01:06:57.330 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Should be fascinating stuff, and I look forward to being bowled over with even more information.

519 01:06:58.430 --> 01:07:11.250 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Amy, thank you so much from everybody, and thank you, everybody, for joining in and putting all your very useful comments in the chat, and all the questions you've been asking. Much appreciated. So, I'll,

520 01:07:11.390 --> 01:07:14.279 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Look forward to next week, and thank you all very much. Bye-bye.

521 01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:15.450 Amy Burnett: Thanks, everyone. Thank you.

522 01:07:15.850 --> 01:07:16.510 Amy Burnett: Bye!

---

Markdown copy of Amy's presentation for AI Search engine:

# A Multi-Dimensional Value Framework for Parish & Town Councils and VCFSEs

**Author:** Dr Amy Burnett (with Catherine Wilder)  
**Event:** The Great Collaboration – 8 October 2025  

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## About the Speaker: Dr Amy Burnett

- Expert in inclusive and sustainable development, focusing on the social economy, civil society, and local government.  
- Background in **Monitoring, Evaluation, Accountability, and Learning (MEAL)** with both UK and international experience.  
- Author of *The Politics of Transition: Innovative Place-Making and Alternative Development Models Under English Localism* and co-editor of *Rural Planning Futures* (esp. insights on social value in planning and regenerative rural systems).  
- Involved in projects such as SME Nature-Positive Finance, digital taxonomies, and supply chain research.  
- Supports parish and town councils on neighbourhood planning and community initiatives.  
- Member of a consultant research team helping local government engage with VCFSEs within devolution proposals.  
- Collaborates with **NALC** and **SLCC** (recent article: *What Next for Neighbourhood Planning*).  

🔗 [LinkedIn – Amy Burnett](https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-b-b6251a23/)

---

## Presentation Purpose

**Goal:**  
Support parish and town councils to move beyond traditional financial measures to recognise and nurture the full spectrum of value created through local action and partnerships with the **Voluntary, Community, Faith and Social Enterprise (VCFSE)** sector.

**Keywords:**  
Alternative value measurement • community power • enterprise ecosystems • localised innovation • policy innovation • placemaking • platform ecosystems • regenerative procurement • SMEs • social innovation • VCFSE sector  

**Core Question:**  
> How do current valuation methods and metrics shape policy interventions, and how can they leverage local innovation within the VCFSE sector?

**Focus:**  
Strengthening the VCFSE sector by assessing **social**, **environmental**, and **economic** metrics for place-based resilience.  

**Funding & Collaboration:**  
British Academy Policy Innovation Fellowship in partnership with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS).  
Extension as a Local Policy Innovation Partnership (LPIP) Place Fellow.

---

## Context

- 250,000 VCSE organisations operate across the UK.  
- 75% deliver public services locally.  
- 131,000 social enterprises contribute ≈ £78 billion to the UK economy.  
- Charities deliver ≈ £16.8 billion of public services annually.  
- Voluntary sector generated ≈ £17.8 billion in 2020/21.  
- Parish and town councils are the tier of government closest to communities and are uniquely placed to amplify this value.  
- Councillors as volunteers bridge government and community initiatives but their contribution is often undervalued.  

**Key References:**  
- [VCSE in Public Procurement – UK Gov](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-role-of-voluntary-community-and-social-enterprise-vcse-organisations-in-public-procurement/the-role-of-voluntary-community-and-social-enterprise-vcse-organisations-in-public-procurement)  
- [Social Enterprise Facts & Figures](https://www.socialenterprise.org.uk/all-about-social-enterprise/facts-and-figures/)  
- [NCVO – True Cost of Public Service Delivery](https://www.ncvo.org.uk/news-and-insights/news-index/true-cost-of-public-service-delivery/)  
- [Lords Library – Voluntary Sector Contribution](https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/voluntary-and-community-sector-contribution-to-society/)

---

## Discussion Questions

1. What is your relationship like with local VCFSEs?  
2. Does it differ by size, theme, governance model, individuals?  
3. What challenges do they face in accessing support (time, money, resources)?  
4. How much is due to difficulty in communicating their value?  
5. Do you have examples of successful communication of value?  
6. What are the main issues VCFSEs face in expressing value – and how does this compare to town and parish councils?  

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## Rationale

Most of what makes communities thrive cannot be captured by **cost-benefit analysis alone**.  
This framework proposes interconnected ways to understand, measure, and maximise community value.

**Key Insights:**

- Valuing multiple forms of community support enables better allocation of public money.  
- Government recognition of “shadow value” (social and voluntary work not captured in £s) is critical.  
- The aim is to co-create research that reshapes relationships between government and communities.  

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## Missing Metrics

Potentially undervalued areas:

- Building social connections reducing loneliness  
- Developing local skills and volunteering  
- Strengthening community ownership and pride  
- Creating environmental benefits  
- Keeping money circulating locally  

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## Additional Questions

1. What measurement issues exist when valuing community activities and outcomes?  
2. How might your work with communities change under devolution?  
3. What support or resources do you need – or need less of?  

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## Value, Growth & Stability

Three interconnected systems in dynamic tension:

1. **Growth System** – vibrancy, ambition, investment, opportunity  
2. **Value System** – recognition, culture, identity, honour  
3. **Stability System** – resilience, capacity, sustainability  

These systems jointly explain community change and resilience.

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## Value Typology (Part 1)

| Valuation Type | Summary | Measure of Success | Key Question |
|----------------|----------|--------------------|--------------|
| **Monetary / Cost-Benefit** | Default policy measure of efficiency | Money saved / efficiencies | Will this save money or increase efficiency? |
| **Recognition & Reputation** | Partnership enhances social good and reputation | Improved reputation | Will our work be recognised? |
| **Capitals Perspective** | Outcomes across social, human, natural, cultural capitals | Interdependent benefits | Will this create multiple benefits? |
| **Governance & Culture** | Improves decision-making and inclusivity | Better decisions | Will this model foster inclusive governance? |
| **Community Assets & Ownership** | Measures impact of VCFSE on local asset stewardship | Community influence over assets | Does community management improve outcomes? |

---

## Value Typology (Part 2)

| Valuation Type | Summary | Measure of Success | Key Question |
|----------------|----------|--------------------|--------------|
| **Value Chain Perspective** | Quantifies social value in supply chains | Cascading (scope 3) results | Does this benefit our supply chain? |
| **Personal Value / Intrinsic Objectives** | Links social economy to personal purpose and well-being | Personal satisfaction | Does this align with personal values? |
| **Regenerative Value** | Promotes self-reinforcing positive outcomes | Amplified positive value | Does this encourage systemic benefits? |
| **Policy Influence & Outcome** | VCSE role in co-producing and shaping policy | Policy influence | Are VCFSE actions shaping policy? |

---

## Assessing VCSE Metrics by Typology

| Value Type | Well-Developed Areas | Under-Developed Areas | Opportunities |
|-------------|----------------------|-----------------------|---------------|
| Monetary & Cost-Benefit | Employment, Environment | Social relationships, Culture | Dynamic pricing, Real-time valuation |
| Recognition & Reputation | Procurement, Heritage | Peer networks | Community validation systems |
| Capitals Perspective | Natural, Built | Social capital | Integrated capital accounting |
| Governance & Culture | Org. change | Power dynamics | Participatory indicators |
| Community Assets | Asset mapping | Community control | Digital platforms, AI |
| Value Chain | ESG tracking | Equity distribution | Blockchain audits, Fair trade |
| Personal Value | NEET programmes | Fulfilment & life satisfaction | Wellbeing tech / self-assessment |
| Regenerative Value | Environment / Doughnut Economics | Cultural renewal | Systems indicators, Feedback loops |
| Policy Influence | Economic outcomes | Democratic co-creation | Citizen engagement metrics |

---

## Suggestions to Enhance Value Measurement

1. **Integrate Complementary Types:** Combine monetary and regenerative approaches.  
2. **Develop Missing Indicators:** Emphasise personal value and policy influence categories.  
3. **Standardise Interfaces:** Enable interoperability between different value types.  
4. **Scale Successful Models:** Extend community asset mapping approaches.  
5. **Digital Integration:** Build platforms to handle multi-value logics (e.g. reports, cultural inputs).  

> Over 300 frameworks and tools have been mapped in this research.

---

## Developing a VCSE Value Mapper

**Purpose:**  
Help VCSE organisations demonstrate the value they create—financial and social.

**Features:**

- Map inputs, outputs and outcomes against value sets.  
- Enable place-based and thematic analysis to find complementary organisations and gaps.  
- Link to wider taxonomies (e.g. ARIs, co-evolution, interoperable data).  
- Incentivise preventative and SROI methods.  
- Support multiple measurement lenses and storytelling functions.  
- Integrate PESTLE+ / SWOT analysis and taxonomy linkage.  

### Intelligent Data Packages
- **Impact Measurement:** Data for social impact demonstration  
- **Funding Application:** Data for stronger bids  
- **Strategic Planning:** Data for organisational development  
- **Procurement Evidence:** Data for tender support  

---

## VCSE Value Mapper (British Academy Follow-On)

**Anticipated Benefits:**
- Closes gaps in defining and operationalising “value” in policy and practice.  
- Explores VCFSE role in resilient, democratic, equitable systems.  
- Illuminates trade-offs, tipping points, and urban/rural variations.  
- Evaluates AI and big data as tools for community resilience.  

---

## Next Steps

**Invitation:**  
Join the collaboration and receive:

- A custom value report (based on typology).  
- Identification of “shadow value” to enhance funding access.  
- Support to maximise cross-sector value.  

> Recognising and quantifying “shadow work” can address the crisis of undervaluation.

---

## Example Indicators

### Engagement & Participation
- Number and types of community projects  
- Individuals supported  
- Decision-making forums and frequency  
- Participant diversity (age, background, needs)

### Asset Indicators
- Community-managed asset count  
- Social resilience (usage, satisfaction, inclusivity)  
- Financial resilience (sustainability, funding diversity)  
- Physical condition / accessibility  

### Volunteering Indicators
- Volunteers engaged & hours contributed  
- Skills developed  
- Satisfaction and retention  

### Value Indicators
- Wellbeing (ONS-4 / Warwick-Edinburgh tools)  
- Non-financial resource sharing (time banks, tool libraries)  
- Safety perception & crime data  
- Environmental outcomes (biodiversity net gain, tree canopy, air quality)  

🔗 [ONS-4 Wellbeing Framework](https://whatworkswellbeing.org/blog/ons4-evaluations-what-works-to-improve-personal-wellbeing/)

---

## Contact

**Dr Amy Burnett** – [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])  
**Catherine Wilder** – [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])  

> Amy and Catherine are launching a VCSE Co-Lab — join them to co-create new community valuation frameworks.

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## Slide Reference Index

1. A Multi-Dimensional Value Framework  
2. About the Speaker  
3. Purpose  
4. Context  
5. Role of Parish & Town Councils  
6. Questions  
7. Rationale  
8. Missing Metrics  
9. Follow-up Questions  
10. Value–Growth–Stability Model  
11–12. Value Typology Tables  
13. VCSE Metrics Assessment  
14. Value Measurement Suggestions  
15. Developing a VCSE Value Mapper  
16. British Academy Follow-On Project  
17. Next Steps  
18. Indicative Indicators  
19. Contacts  

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