Janet introduces us to the specifics of the Middle Marches Land Trust in Shropshire, its goals, its achievements, and how it works - and future potential; Tom looks at CLTs across England and Wales
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the impact of whole clusters of communities working together, and the force for good that they represent.
00:00 - 14:30 Janet's presentation: Middle Marches CLT
14:30 - 20:30 Q & A for Janet
20:30 - 34:50 Tom's presentation: CLTs across England and Wales
34:50 - 54:19 (end) Q & A
Janet's re Middle Marches Community Land Trust, covering Local Nature Recovery Strategy, fund raising appeals, shareholders and members, networking community groups:
Tom's re CLTs across England and Wales, examples of what they have achieved, and can achieve, Land Use considerations, networking of groups across the country:
Mar 26, 2025 11:51 AM London ID: 834 5460 8536
The meeting focused on the concept and benefits of community land trusts (CLTs) in England and Wales, discussing their potential to shift power to communities, address issues like affordable housing and nature restoration, and provide more control over land use decisions. The group also explored the funding and time commitment required for CLTs, the importance of resilience and adaptability in community projects, and the potential for CLTs to serve as a hub for various groups. The conversation ended with a discussion on the need for a central governing body to manage various initiatives and the importance of political clout and unity in objectives.
Actions:
Janet to send case studies about Middle Marshes Community Land Trust and other town and parish councils across Shropshire to Tristram.
Tristram to email Janet to request the case studies.
Janet and Tom to send their presentations to Graham for publishing.
Andrew to follow up with Tom about renewing Long Hope's membership with the Community Land Trust Network.
Community Land Trusts Presentation
In the meeting, Janet and Tom discussed sharing a presentation and the possibility of attending a conference in Manchester. Keith, an architect and former parish councillor, joined the meeting and expressed interest in the topic of Community Land Trusts. Andrew, the chairman, welcomed everyone and ensured that the meeting was being recorded. Jenny, who was walking and holding her phone, joined the meeting late but was welcomed nonetheless. The conversation ended with Janet starting to screen share her presentation on Community Land Trusts.
Community Land Trusts for Nature
Janet discusses the Middle Marshes Community Land Trust in Shropshire, which focuses on nature recovery by acquiring and managing land. The trust works with various organizations, including town and parish councils, to develop nature recovery plans and improve connectivity and habitat. They have acquired four sites through public appeals and are developing a toolkit to help communities engage in nature recovery efforts. Janet emphasizes the potential of community land trusts to shift power to communities and unleash local energy for climate change and nature recovery initiatives.
Committee Registration and Conservation Covenants
In the meeting, Janet discussed the democratic process of the committee, mentioning that they have a board with members from various backgrounds, including ecologists and a barrister. She also mentioned that they are in the process of registering as competent for a super nature reserve and are considering giving out conservation covenants. Keith asked about the number of shareholders and members, to which Janet responded that they have several hundred shareholders and a large mailing list. Tom clarified that the legal minimum for starting a trust is three shareholders. The conversation ended with Tom preparing to give his talk.
Community Land Trusts in England
Tom, the chief executive of the Community Land Trust Network, explains the concept and benefits of community land trusts (CLTs) in England and Wales. CLTs are organizations that allow communities to own and manage land for long-term local benefit, addressing issues like affordable housing, nature restoration, and renewable energy. Tom highlights several examples of successful CLT projects across the country, including rural social housing, village heating networks, and large-scale developments. He emphasizes that CLTs can provide communities with more control over land use decisions and lead to better outcomes in terms of affordability, environmental impact, and social cohesion. Tom also mentions that local councils often support CLTs through funding and policy measures.
CLT Funding and Time Commitment
Andrew, Janet, and Tom discussed the funding and time commitment required for community land trusts. Tom explained that the CLT network is funded by a third from members and services, and two-thirds from grants, primarily from the Esme Fairburn Foundation and the Nationwide Foundation. Janet shared her experience of spending a lot of time organizing events and networking, with a minimum of two hours a month for board meetings. Tom added that the time commitment varies depending on the size and complexity of the project, and that partnerships with other organizations can help reduce the load on volunteers. The group also discussed the potential for conflict between different goals, such as nature recovery and social housing, but agreed that it's good to have these conversations.
Community Land Trusts and Resilience
In the meeting, Janet and Tom discussed their experiences with community land trusts and their impact on local initiatives. They highlighted the importance of resilience and adaptability in community projects, and the need for a central governing body to manage various initiatives. They also mentioned the potential for community land trusts to serve as a hub for various groups, allowing them to focus on their specific missions while being supported by the central organization. The discussion also touched on the importance of political clout and the need for unity in objectives. Andrew expressed interest in promoting these ideas and possibly collaborating with town and parish councils.
00:28:39 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Apologies, a bit crazy here with filming going on. Question - who decides what happens to the land? WHo makes the decisions?
00:29:11 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Also, what are your thoughts Janet on LNRSs? what are your expectations of them?
00:45:51 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Tom, how is the CLT Network funded?
00:47:37 Keith Brannan: how much time is required from individuals in running CLTs
00:57:02 Keith Brannan: Lots of interesting info to digest-Thanks for the presentations-need to leave the meeting now
From Janet Cobb: If people want to get in touch about MMCLT I’m happy for you to contact email address info@middlemarchescommunitylandtrust.org.uk or janet@jan-net.co.uk
138 00:10:37.900 --> 00:10:51.209 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, so welcome. Everybody to the session on community land trusts. Janet Cobb is going to present gave us a presentation, and Tom Chance is going to follow on, and then we'll have a bit of a chin rag after that so, Janet? The floor is yours.
139 00:10:51.370 --> 00:10:56.260 janet Cobb: Okay. So Middlemarch's Community Land Trust is in Shropshire.
140 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:04.950 janet Cobb: in, mostly around South Shropshire. We're a bit different as a community land trust, because we're interested primarily in nature recovery.
141 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:24.780 janet Cobb: So we're buying up little patches of land to try and improve connectivity and habitat. And we're pretty specific about what sort of land we're buying. So we're buying land that's next to existing sites, or offer an opportunity for connectivity.
142 00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:52.579 janet Cobb: So we own 4 sites. I'll come to those in a minute. But I'm also a parish clerk. So I got really interested in the Shropshire Association of Local Councils and what that network is doing in relation to nature recovery. So across Shropshire we've got 184 town and parish councils, and the ambition is to try and persuade every town and Parish council to develop a bespoke nature recovery plan.
143 00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:20.630 janet Cobb: So we're also working with the local nature. Recovery strategy lead. So I don't know whether people know this. But there are 48 local nature recovery strategies being developed across England. So we're we're connected to that. So the lead here is a lady called Lynn Parker. So we Middle Marches Community Land Trust is working alongside Lynn Parker and alongside the salt network to try and join the dots across town and Parish councils.
144 00:12:20.780 --> 00:12:40.300 janet Cobb: and we're also working with an organization called Shropshire Community Foundation, who are set up to take funding from businesses with a philanthropic outlook and then use that money to give out to grants. And that's not happened yet. But we're
145 00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:44.730 janet Cobb: optimistic that in the future that might be useful to us.
146 00:12:45.510 --> 00:13:05.629 janet Cobb: So we established in 2019. So we're still a relatively young community land trust. And we're still young. We're still learning, really as we go along. Our core ambition is nature recovery. There is another community Land trust in Shropshire which is Bishop's Castle Community Land Trust, who are
147 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:18.060 janet Cobb: involved in social housing. So they're on a number of properties in in Bishop's Castle, and we work closely together. So we share some board members. So we keep in contact with each other.
148 00:13:18.410 --> 00:13:23.167 janet Cobb: and I'll keep an eye out in terms of what's happening.
149 00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:32.659 janet Cobb: we most of the money for the lands that we own has come to us via public appeals.
150 00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:49.599 janet Cobb: So we we identify a piece of land. The 1st one was a Norbury hill, which was a big stepping stone between 2 key sites in Shropshire. The long wind and stiper stones, so big stepping stones for for nature, and we then launched public appeal
151 00:13:50.305 --> 00:13:54.649 janet Cobb: to to bring the the money in. So people pledge money.
152 00:13:54.760 --> 00:13:56.579 janet Cobb: and then we gather the money in
153 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.180 janet Cobb: at the end of the appeal, and hopefully we hit the target.
154 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:13.850 janet Cobb: So we're acquiring and managing land for nature, and we're also interested in working with landowners, big and small. So lots of people in Shropshire have a big garden, a field, a couple of acres of woodland
155 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:33.969 janet Cobb: farmers, some big estates here. So we're working with anybody, really, who is interested in nature recovery. And because we're a big rural county, that's a lot of people. So we work also alongside other organizations. So organizations such as Structured Wildlife Trust and the National Trust, which are the big ones.
156 00:14:34.010 --> 00:14:57.460 janet Cobb: And we work with smaller groups on the ground. So the nature, you know, the lots of the sort of wildlife groups and Marches Meadow group and caring for God's Acre and Stratton's Wildlife groups and all sorts of people so, and we also act as an advice Hub, so people can come to us for advice or for signposting to other sources of information.
157 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:01.030 janet Cobb: and it does get quite busy sometimes.
158 00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:26.130 janet Cobb: So the advantages of being a community Land trust is we're nimble. We can move quickly when other organizations can't. So we're in that space between the big organisations like the National Trust and Shropshire Wildlife Trust and people. So we're currently occupying that space where we can move quickly to move in. If an interesting piece of land comes up for sale, we can move quickly, launch an appeal and
159 00:15:26.550 --> 00:15:28.149 janet Cobb: potentially buy it.
160 00:15:28.450 --> 00:15:35.150 janet Cobb: So we're not in competition with those big organizations at all. And we've talked to one another all the time. So
161 00:15:35.160 --> 00:15:59.710 janet Cobb: we're also interested in this whole thing of shifting ownership to communities and a protection of assets for a community. So it's almost a circular economy. So if you know, a community owns the houses or owns the land. It belongs to that community, and any income generated from whatever assets a community land Trust owns is then put back into the Community Land Trust.
162 00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.629 janet Cobb: So it's a it's a circular economy.
163 00:16:02.770 --> 00:16:11.700 janet Cobb: So from our point of view, what's not to like, it's very democratic. We offer shares. So we've got a share, a big shareholding community.
164 00:16:13.610 --> 00:16:28.909 janet Cobb: our experiences. It unleashes a lot of energy and potential in communities. And as far as climate change and nature recovery is concerned. I think we've turned a corner with the public. It's not the public that are the problem. It's the politicians.
165 00:16:29.050 --> 00:16:35.539 janet Cobb: So if you can get the public to pick this up, then you can. It's almost like turning the Titanic with a you know.
166 00:16:35.790 --> 00:16:37.590 janet Cobb: a hundred little tugs.
167 00:16:38.410 --> 00:16:48.429 janet Cobb: So we've also found that because we're running lots of conferences and events, we're engaging with new people, new partners all the time.
168 00:16:49.400 --> 00:17:12.669 janet Cobb: That's an interesting development. So every time we run a conference. We've run about 10 now conferences since 2019, and every time we run a conference, if we get 130 people, that's 130 new people on your mailing list, and we're opening up to new populations. So the population of town and parish councils for us is a new population. Lots of parish councils have never been.
169 00:17:12.670 --> 00:17:21.310 janet Cobb: never been seriously involved in nature recovery in the past, so our mailing list has grown a lot, and our shareholding has grown a lot
170 00:17:21.470 --> 00:17:25.185 janet Cobb: just by talking to people, really and
171 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:35.150 janet Cobb: I don't think we've realised the potential of Community Land Trust. I don't think people have realized the potential yet, but I think the potential is absolutely huge. Tom will talk about that, you know.
172 00:17:35.510 --> 00:17:36.830 janet Cobb: when I finished.
173 00:17:38.270 --> 00:17:59.239 janet Cobb: So, as I said before, there are 48 local nature recovery strategies being developed across England. If you're not connected to your local nature recovery, strategy, all the contact details are on the Defra website. So any parish councils who are not connected, I would encourage people to find out who your lead is and talk to them.
174 00:17:59.990 --> 00:18:08.320 janet Cobb: The local strategy person here is Lynn, and she's sort of very open to talking to people very inclusive.
175 00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:12.579 janet Cobb: And, as I said before, we're quite interested in the law, the
176 00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:19.859 janet Cobb: Salc network, and engaging with town and parish councils. We ran. One of our events was last December.
177 00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:37.619 janet Cobb: and we ran a big event, a big conference here. We've run 3 conferences that have specifically targeted parish councillors, but the best one was last December, and we had representatives from 60 town and parish councils, which is a 3rd of the network. So to me, that was like.
178 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:47.280 janet Cobb: Well, we've really, you know, broken through in terms of connections. And what's happening now is some of those town and parish councils are beginning to cluster.
179 00:18:47.320 --> 00:19:00.690 janet Cobb: And we're developing a very simple toolkit and helping people just to think through. So nothing. It's not rocket science, nothing complicated. What I want is a very simple toolkit that doesn't frighten people away.
180 00:19:00.690 --> 00:19:18.509 janet Cobb: That makes it easier for people to engage with this. So it's things like, Can you open a mini nursery for trees? So I worked out. If every town in Parish Council in Shropshire grew 200 trees, we'd have 38,000 trees to plant every year in Shropshire.
181 00:19:18.770 --> 00:19:20.070 janet Cobb: So, and
182 00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:47.399 janet Cobb: I'm 1 of those parish councillors who's opened a mini nursery growing 200 trees. It's not hard. You don't have to be an expert. You could plant a mini orchard, you could put a pond in. You could do. Verge, verge restoration. The picture on the left is my verge, and it's been completely restored to wildflowers. If we can do that in Shropshire all along our roadside verges, we'd have massive linear meadows providing.
183 00:19:47.550 --> 00:19:51.630 janet Cobb: you know, a huge amount of connectivity and habitat.
184 00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:56.350 janet Cobb: Okay, willing to talk to anybody who's interested in that sort of thing.
185 00:19:56.910 --> 00:20:04.740 janet Cobb: So, as I said before, we own 4 sites, Norbury Hill, which is a stepping stone between Longmind and Stuyperstones, both national reserves.
186 00:20:04.860 --> 00:20:22.819 janet Cobb: Couldwell meadow, which is a wetland meadow, a little site, but very important in terms of species, and some of the stuff that's happened there is remarkable. Once you start re-wetting land. What comes back is just amazing
187 00:20:23.020 --> 00:20:35.780 janet Cobb: and highly sources. 3 wildflower, rich meadows. Again in Church Stratton. And this was an interesting appeal. We launched the appeal, and in 10 days we raised 400,000 pounds
188 00:20:35.950 --> 00:20:41.100 janet Cobb: from one community so massive community engagement.
189 00:20:41.250 --> 00:21:02.939 janet Cobb: And then in November, on November 8th last year, we bought minsterly meadows, which is a triple Si site. That was harder work, but we got over 350 people making a donation towards this site, and we secured lottery funding because we were able to match fund some of the public donations with the Lottery Fund application.
190 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:19.820 janet Cobb: So we hit 100,000 from public appeal, and then we matched from that with the lottery application. And I think that's what secured us the extra funding. So we were able to sign contracts on November the 8.th If people are interested in
191 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:22.849 janet Cobb: talking to us about how we launched that appeal and
192 00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:28.400 janet Cobb: how we've managed to buy the other land. I'm quite happy to talk to people directly.
193 00:21:28.910 --> 00:21:29.830 janet Cobb: And
194 00:21:30.100 --> 00:21:59.599 janet Cobb: again. The Minsterly Meadows site is fantastic public engagement, and the lottery grant that we've got towards that site will now help with community engagement work following the purchase of the land. So we partnered with another group, marches Meadow Group to manage the land because it is a triple Si site. So we've got lots of rules and regulations we've got to stick to. If anybody can come to Shropshire, you need to come in April to see 5,000 green winged orchids on those 2 meadows.
195 00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:08.439 janet Cobb: 99% of green winged orchids are on those 2 meadows. That's why, it's triple s eyesight. And it's of county and national significance.
196 00:22:08.510 --> 00:22:09.240 janet Cobb: Okay.
197 00:22:10.290 --> 00:22:27.290 janet Cobb: so what have we been doing? We organise conferences, summer field trips on various topics for anything, from regenerative farming to meadows, verges, ditches to species, action plans, all sorts of conferences.
198 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:44.300 janet Cobb: and appealing to different groups. We're also building alliances with other organizations in particular, interested in the local nature, recovery, strategy, and interestingly, the new government, the Labour Government, have just come up with their Nature recovery document.
199 00:22:44.300 --> 00:22:58.099 janet Cobb: which doesn't mention local nature recovery strategies at all. So that's going to be interesting to see. All this work has gone into these strategies for 3 years, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the Labour Government.
200 00:22:58.540 --> 00:23:04.180 janet Cobb: and we're interested in oh, sorry broadcasting the potential of community land trusts.
201 00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:21.089 janet Cobb: So, as I said, before public engagement and capacity building, it raises our profile every time we hold an event, and we've increased the number of shareholders in the mailing list. And we're particularly interested in shifting the power so shifting the power away from
202 00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:23.530 janet Cobb: agencies to communities.
203 00:23:24.060 --> 00:23:24.740 janet Cobb: Yeah.
204 00:23:25.710 --> 00:23:28.949 janet Cobb: So this fantastic network?
205 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:46.640 janet Cobb: yeah. As I said before. We want every Town and Parish council to develop a bespoke nature recovery plan. We're also linked to work with Exeter University, who are looking at town and Parish councils, the Rural economy and nature recovery through a chap called Jack Reed.
206 00:23:46.690 --> 00:24:12.430 janet Cobb: If you, Google, Jack Reed, Exeter University, you'll come up with the link to this piece of work. So we're one of 12 counties who do not have a city who are in this Exeter University project, and we've just been asked for case studies, and those case studies will ultimately end up with defra, we hope.
207 00:24:12.630 --> 00:24:28.930 janet Cobb: But that's not happened yet. So watch this space, and the clusters are forming for mutual support, opportunity swapping problem solving, and maybe grant applications. So our policies don't reinvent the wheel.
208 00:24:29.190 --> 00:24:33.300 janet Cobb: you know, share information. Do the problem solving together.
209 00:24:34.330 --> 00:24:42.380 janet Cobb: So this is the next to the this is the penultimate slide. So just 2 quotes there, and I particularly like the second one.
210 00:24:42.600 --> 00:24:44.570 janet Cobb: It's missed from Mr. Chesterson.
211 00:24:44.720 --> 00:25:03.920 janet Cobb: So I think all the answers is with people in communities. I think people don't realise the power of their elbow until they use it. You know every family's got uncles, aunties, grandparents, siblings, etc. We all unite behind community land trusts. Who knows what we can achieve.
212 00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:09.780 janet Cobb: so happy to answer any questions and hand over to Tom. Shall we have questions at the end
213 00:25:12.030 --> 00:25:17.840 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, let's have some questions at the end that'd be brilliant. Or if people have got burning questions that don't want to forget, they can just put them in the chat. Yeah, great
214 00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:18.460 janet Cobb: Okay.
215 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:29.184 Andrew Maliphant: Many thanks, Janet. That's fabulous. Yes, I love. What's the idea? If you had a I've heard a story that the committee is an animal with 4 back legs, anyway. Hard.
216 00:25:29.530 --> 00:25:32.830 Andrew Maliphant: It's funny to make a statue of that next
217 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:39.289 Andrew Maliphant: Gk, Chester. Of course, author of many things, including the Father Brown stories, Tom Chance. Now's your opportunity.
218 00:25:39.590 --> 00:25:45.350 Andrew Maliphant: I'm sure you you're tired of people saying these things to you, Tom, but I've just got it off my chest. Now it's not saying it
219 00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:48.980 Tom Chance: Thank you. I'm just for some reason I can't
220 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.250 Tom Chance: get the the screen shares not bring up my presentation as an option
221 00:25:52.250 --> 00:25:54.740 Andrew Maliphant: There's a green button in the middle of the bottom of your screen. It should be
222 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:59.160 Tom Chance: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it. It's not bringing up anything other than
223 00:25:59.570 --> 00:26:04.229 Tom Chance: I'm sorry I should check this beforehand. I've done this 100,000 times in recent years. And it's now
224 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.290 Andrew Maliphant: Yes, I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate. Yes.
225 00:26:08.590 --> 00:26:12.770 Tom Chance: Know why, that's very strange. It's not showing my windows
226 00:26:13.210 --> 00:26:18.529 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, it. It gives you options of things to share, doesn't it?
227 00:26:18.750 --> 00:26:21.680 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, it's not showing it. It's saying, showing new system.
228 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:34.729 Andrew Maliphant: One thing I found in the past is if you could go back to your files or or online and and have a look at, get make sure that you've got your presentation on screen, then go back to share and see if that breaks the deadline
229 00:26:35.040 --> 00:26:42.889 Tom Chance: I I might. I'm very sorry I I have to. I've definitely got it up. I'll just see if I can, if I can restart zoom, if it will bring it back up with the right options. One second sorry
230 00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:46.980 janet Cobb: Shall we see if anybody's gonna get got any questions? Why, Tom.
231 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:48.379 Andrew Maliphant: While Tom's doing that. Yes.
232 00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:48.760 janet Cobb: Yes.
233 00:26:48.760 --> 00:26:52.020 Andrew Maliphant: And be like anything to say already about Tristra
234 00:26:52.020 --> 00:26:57.960 tristram cary: Yes, Jenny, thank you very much. Wonderful, very inspiring. How does the shareholding work
235 00:26:58.600 --> 00:26:59.040 janet Cobb: People, are
236 00:26:59.040 --> 00:27:00.870 tristram cary: Shareholders get for get for them.
237 00:27:00.870 --> 00:27:06.540 janet Cobb: Yeah, they get to vote, they get to vote. So we have an annual agm, and we we
238 00:27:07.100 --> 00:27:12.789 janet Cobb: rewriting our business plan. So we'll present that at the Agm. And people will vote. Yes.
239 00:27:12.890 --> 00:27:30.019 janet Cobb: you know we agree with the direction of travel. The direction of travel has changed substantially since we started. So we start off with one idea, and then the whole thing changes organically because opportunities come in, and my belief is, if a door opens, you walk through it.
240 00:27:30.020 --> 00:27:43.630 janet Cobb: So these doors have opened and we've walked through them. And so that's meant that the ambition has grown. So you know, for example, at the moment we're just holding land. That is, basically meadows.
241 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:59.949 janet Cobb: and we don't own any woodland, and we'd like to acquire some woodland. But we need to talk to our shareholders about that. So it's a democratic process. Really, having said that, it's quite a hard process to manage. It's quite. It's quite hard to be democratic. To be honest.
242 00:27:59.950 --> 00:28:07.430 tristram cary: And my other question is, where does your expertise come from? On the committee? Are you all? Were you all sort of previously expert at nature recovery? Or have you learned
243 00:28:07.430 --> 00:28:07.750 janet Cobb: Yeah.
244 00:28:08.290 --> 00:28:26.579 janet Cobb: on our particular board. We've got people who work for natural England. We've got ecologists and people who are university lecturers, and we've got a barrister on our committee. My background is in nursing, so I'm a complete outsider.
245 00:28:26.760 --> 00:28:31.479 janet Cobb: But I'm interested in networking and conferences. So when I was working, I was at
246 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:31.950 tristram cary: And
247 00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:46.689 janet Cobb: Networks in in nursing. So yeah, everybody brings something completely different. So, but yeah, we have just been registered actually as a being competent in Shropshire. They're going to open a super and are a super nature reserve.
248 00:28:46.690 --> 00:29:08.370 janet Cobb: So we've just been registered as competent to be part of that super nature reserve. Yeah, wonderful. So these doors open and you just walk through them. So we're looking at being registered for as an organization that can give conservation covenants out as well again. That's something. The barrister on our board is quite interested
249 00:29:08.370 --> 00:29:10.109 tristram cary: Sorry that can do what except
250 00:29:10.110 --> 00:29:17.210 janet Cobb: Conservation covenants. So Google conservation covenants, it's about protecting land in perpetuity
251 00:29:17.210 --> 00:29:18.159 tristram cary: Right, right.
252 00:29:18.750 --> 00:29:21.770 Keith Brannan: Can can I just ask one question? Am I
253 00:29:22.410 --> 00:29:22.829 janet Cobb: Yeah. Go ahead.
254 00:29:22.830 --> 00:29:24.120 Keith Brannan: Upcoming through
255 00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:24.580 Andrew Maliphant: Yep.
256 00:29:24.580 --> 00:29:36.749 Keith Brannan: I don't know whether I missed it or not. But what, how many people do you have in your for a membership in order to be able to function the way you do, and to fundraise the way you do
257 00:29:37.070 --> 00:29:38.709 janet Cobb: Do you mean board members.
258 00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:44.209 Keith Brannan: No, no! How many, how many members do you have of the Land trust
259 00:29:44.570 --> 00:29:48.880 janet Cobb: We've got. Well, it depends. If you mean shareholders we've got
260 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:49.660 Keith Brannan: I do. Yes.
261 00:29:49.660 --> 00:30:00.139 janet Cobb: Several 100 shareholders, but we've got a much bigger what we call members and members of our mailing list. So we've got a big mailing list, and then we've got several 100 shareholders as well
262 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:07.859 Keith Brannan: When you say several 100, I mean, I'm trying to get some idea of the scale of the organization
263 00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:08.709 janet Cobb: That was small.
264 00:30:08.710 --> 00:30:10.299 Keith Brannan: The amount of money you're talking about
265 00:30:10.300 --> 00:30:27.390 janet Cobb: Oh, we don't raise money from shareholders, so the shareholders just buy a share. And then the shareholdings kept in a separate account. That's ring fenced. So we're raising money from public appeals. So the shareholders are not funding the organization at all. They just buy a share, and then that's held
266 00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:29.790 janet Cobb: in in an account
267 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:39.019 Keith Brannan: Okay. But I mean, in order to form the trust to start with. Presumably you have to register a certain number of shareholders
268 00:30:39.020 --> 00:30:44.229 janet Cobb: No, I don't think so. I think we just have to stomp up a few 100 pounds and register
269 00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:46.439 Keith Brannan: Okay, all right. Thank you.
270 00:30:46.910 --> 00:30:50.019 Tom Chance: I can answer the question to the legal minimum is 3
271 00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.379 janet Cobb: There we go!
272 00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:53.640 Tom Chance: Not high, not a high bar to get something started
273 00:30:55.595 --> 00:31:11.580 Andrew Maliphant: Janet, we've got a couple of questions in the chat for you to ponder. But now Tom's back, Tom, would you like to give us your talk, and then perhaps we can come back to you afterwards, Janet, to give you to answer the questions that Gary's putting the chat for you over to you, Tom. Well done!
274 00:31:12.340 --> 00:31:16.930 Tom Chance: Thanks. I'm really sorry for the the hiccup with sharing the screen. Hope that's now showing, isn't it? My
275 00:31:17.430 --> 00:31:18.710 Andrew Maliphant: All good. Yeah.
276 00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:19.630 Tom Chance: Okay, so
277 00:31:20.116 --> 00:31:29.199 Tom Chance: I am the chief exec for the Community Land Trust Network, which covers community land trusts a few 100 across England and Wales, including Janet's in Shropshire.
278 00:31:29.370 --> 00:31:39.280 Tom Chance: We are a peer led network. We bring practitioners together also with contacts in government and industry. We did a lot of advocacy work with government, and so on, so sort of
279 00:31:39.590 --> 00:31:43.030 Tom Chance: collectively trying to build this movement of community ownership across
280 00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:49.519 Tom Chance: nations. And there's a sister body community land Scotland doing very similar things in Scotland.
281 00:31:51.410 --> 00:32:12.560 Tom Chance: I want to start by relating what Janet was talking about to the whole country in this case this is England, and you might have seen recently the Government published a consultation on what it's calling its land use framework. And they're looking at. How is land used across the whole of the United Kingdom, England. And how do you manage trade-offs
282 00:32:14.870 --> 00:32:25.459 Tom Chance: between different land uses as to in the Government's view, build more homes, provide more energy infrastructure, restore more land to wild habitat.
283 00:32:25.470 --> 00:32:53.620 Tom Chance: to continue to produce food. There's this challenge of how do you make all these trade-offs of land usage across the country. One of the things they note in their consultation is that in England, similar in Wales, and even more so in Scotland, most land is privately owned, and that land is highly concentrated in its ownership, particularly not so much in homeowners or farmers, but particularly companies that now buy almost half of the land that comes up for sale in rural areas is being bought by investment companies.
284 00:32:53.890 --> 00:33:04.819 Tom Chance: rich individuals, some of the aristocracy and gentry, and so on. And so who gets to make decisions about the trade offs in land usage is a relatively small
285 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.720 Tom Chance: portion of the overall population, and
286 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:18.059 Tom Chance: I gave a talk recently, in fact, in Shropshire. This is this is the area that Janet's describing. This is the Shropshire hills, and you can look at this and think well, Britain's a very
287 00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:31.999 Tom Chance: green and present land. But we know that, for example, nature is in crisis, that the way that we're using our land has continued to drive a reduction in biodiversity and in habitats health across the country.
288 00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:54.200 Tom Chance: We also know that human habitats are in crisis, and that with housing, for example, there's a very significant shortage of genuinely affordable homes. There's a lot of rural homelessness. And then in the cities, equally major problems. So the way that we're using our land at the moment isn't necessarily meeting all the needs of us as communities or of the natural world around.
289 00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:56.020 Colin Marsh: I'm gonna watch your sing.
290 00:33:58.520 --> 00:33:59.330 Tom Chance: So
291 00:33:59.550 --> 00:34:10.759 Tom Chance: where we start from the Community Land Trust Network is the idea that among many solutions, and this is not obviously the only one but one of them would be, what if communities could own some of that land in their area?
292 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:31.490 Tom Chance: And if they could then decide on those trade-offs that the government is interested in democratically and locally to think, how do we meet our needs around housing nature, the climate breakdown and reducing carbon emissions, and so on. How do we do? Those democratically, as a community, have some agency in this, as opposed to just being consultees or voters, or passive bystanders?
293 00:34:32.520 --> 00:34:46.760 Tom Chance: What if through owning that land we could also hold the value of that land and any rents you can get from that land, and make sure that land is being used for the well-being of the current generation and future generations. So take a long view of how we use the value of that land.
294 00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:50.729 Tom Chance: And what if communities through that ownership could be a partner
295 00:34:51.070 --> 00:35:04.040 Tom Chance: with others? Who then use that land and and did a landlord that we're using that land, and that could be housing associations and developers building on it. It could be farmers using that land. It could be energy companies putting infrastructure onto that land.
296 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:16.060 Tom Chance: So what if what if you could do all those things? Well, that is what a community Land trust is there for? So community land trusts are simply an organization that is set up for a defined community, and Janet described the geography of hers.
297 00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:27.109 Tom Chance: Any once you just describe the area that community Land trust exists for anybody who lives or works in that community can join the Community Land Trust, and they then democratically control it.
298 00:35:27.460 --> 00:35:29.740 Tom Chance: Its purpose is to buy land
299 00:35:29.970 --> 00:35:33.099 Tom Chance: and assets on that land, and to steward and develop them
300 00:35:34.112 --> 00:35:37.739 Tom Chance: whatever those are, and then to hold those in trust
301 00:35:38.130 --> 00:35:40.480 Tom Chance: for the long-term well-being of the community.
302 00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:43.219 Tom Chance: and they these are all legally binding
303 00:35:43.420 --> 00:35:48.570 Tom Chance: aspects of the Community Land Trust model, which was put onto the statute books back in 2,008.
304 00:35:49.390 --> 00:35:59.800 Tom Chance: What they then do with that model can vary very widely. So Janet's talked to you about middle marches with a focus on nature restoration across the Shropshire Hills landscape.
305 00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:05.750 Tom Chance: But you can do many other things. I'm just gonna give you a few examples, not gonna be exhaustive, or we'd be here until evening.
306 00:36:06.391 --> 00:36:26.810 Tom Chance: There's 1 in Cambridgeshire that has developed a village heating network to take homes within the village off of oil heating, and to have a renewably powered district heating system for the village. Very ambitious they did this project as a second project, after having previously completed some affordable homes with the local Housing Association.
307 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.130 Tom Chance: and in doing that project they were interested in not just
308 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:43.740 Tom Chance: providing rents that people can afford locally, but also addressing fuel poverty, and in thinking about poverty in relation to new homes, got them thinking about fuel poverty with existing housing stock in the area and its dependence on fossil fuels.
309 00:36:44.810 --> 00:36:47.040 Tom Chance: Rural social housing has been a real
310 00:36:47.510 --> 00:37:08.570 Tom Chance: of a lot of community land trusts in rural areas, most of them partnering associations to develop it. So this is where the community is the landowner and sits alongside and works with a housing association which brings the finance and expertise to be able to develop these homes. And Graham mentioned, he's in a Clt. That is doing this in Gloucestershire at the moment with a housing association called Asta.
311 00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:13.499 Tom Chance: They have developed almost 2,000 homes across the country
312 00:37:13.690 --> 00:37:22.819 Tom Chance: in rural and urban areas, mostly in partnership with developers and housing associations, giving communities much more control and then long term ownership of the the housing that's produced.
313 00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:35.680 Tom Chance: It can be small scale schemes like this, often 10 or 15 homes. It can also be large scale. So in some cases community land trusts are working with private developers. Even in this case, Bellway, which is one of the biggest developers in the country.
314 00:37:35.770 --> 00:37:53.759 Tom Chance: This is a 500 Home Garden village, which is more than tripling the size of the existing village of Kennett and the Community Land Trust has been there throughout the process as one of the clients in master planning. They sit on the Development Board, overseeing the build out, negotiating with Belway of the standards.
315 00:37:53.810 --> 00:38:06.309 Tom Chance: and at the end of the scheme the Community Land Trust will own all of the open green space blood remediation features, community center, commercial freeholds, and a 3rd of the affordable housing on the site.
316 00:38:06.470 --> 00:38:11.779 Tom Chance: So it gives communities agency over development of land in these different sorts of contexts.
317 00:38:13.200 --> 00:38:16.059 Tom Chance: And then what you can do is try to bring all these things together.
318 00:38:16.190 --> 00:38:21.770 Tom Chance: So this is a Clt I like to talk about in West Yorkshire, called Calder Valley, which covers a
319 00:38:21.910 --> 00:38:23.810 Tom Chance: a couple of town councils
320 00:38:23.910 --> 00:38:42.939 Tom Chance: and some parish councils in the area, and they're pursuing a whole range of different projects, different sorts of assets here. So they have been buying existing properties. The Brunswick Street property is from a private owner who didn't want it to become an Airbnb when they sold and moved out the area, buying empty homes.
321 00:38:43.000 --> 00:39:07.540 Tom Chance: buying up an existing community hall, field and hall in all those cases, using that as an opportunity to retrofit those properties, to make them much more energy efficient as well as them, leasing them to tenants or in the in the field and hall case, leasing that to a community association to run as a community venue, they're developing new things. So they're developing some new social housing on the High Street in Hepton Bridge. They're developing an Enterprise Center in Todd Morden.
322 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:17.010 Tom Chance: And the idea is that you want this place based steward of land for the range of needs you have in your area.
323 00:39:17.250 --> 00:39:21.560 Tom Chance: rather than the kind of thing that often happens in England, which is that
324 00:39:21.670 --> 00:39:42.919 Tom Chance: somebody has a project idea. Let's do something on climate action. Or let's let's try and get some housing, or let's do something with this old signal box, and they set up a new charity, or trust, or kick, or whatever to to do it, and you end up within a small community with half a dozen or a dozen different organizations that all have their own governance. All have very narrow purposes around this. The one thing they wanted to do.
325 00:39:43.080 --> 00:39:58.289 Tom Chance: Instead of that, the idea is to have a community Land trust that brings those things together into a portfolio that can think more broadly over time about the changing needs of that area, and that can develop a range of different sorts of assets that are needed within that area and not just be focused on the one.
326 00:39:58.620 --> 00:40:03.200 Tom Chance: the one thing so collectively.
327 00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:12.340 Tom Chance: many other stories, but different sorts of things they're doing. But collectively, there are over 300 incorporated Community Land Trusts across Wales and England.
328 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:19.569 Tom Chance: They own over 2,000 assets. Whole range of things which I've some which I've talked about. The the
329 00:40:19.790 --> 00:40:31.180 Tom Chance: the majority of the assets currently are affordable homes. And that's been a big thing. Most communities when they start to think about what they most need in their area. It's a lack of affordable housing is often very high up their list.
330 00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:36.130 Tom Chance: and they've got about 7,000 other assets in development.
331 00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:51.489 Tom Chance: And there's been lots of research, some of which we've commissioned or supported, led by academics and others looking at what happens when communities own land and when they have this agency and power through the ownership of their land. And what you can see
332 00:40:51.600 --> 00:40:55.660 Tom Chance: is that you get these better outcomes. So where communities are
333 00:40:56.210 --> 00:41:04.129 Tom Chance: empower through ownership and can work in partnership with developers, farmers, community associations, councils, whoever
334 00:41:04.910 --> 00:41:31.340 Tom Chance: the homes and workspaces they offer tend to be more genuinely affordable, based on what local incomes are and what people need locally, environmental outcomes like Co, 2 emissions, space for nature tend to be better. They also build community. So you get more social cohesion, better physical and mental health. Because people are participating, they gain confidence, they develop social connections with each other. You know, it kind of brings people together through community activity.
335 00:41:33.410 --> 00:41:47.020 Tom Chance: Local councils, since many of you mentioned being being parish councils. Local councils have often been involved in these, so they're often founder members of a Community Land Trust, and particularly councillors from Parish Town District Borough Level.
336 00:41:48.230 --> 00:42:02.610 Tom Chance: They're often providing small bits of funding to help get things going, so parish councils often help the Clt. To get going same to town councils, and then where local authorities have access to funding like one public estate for Brownfield funds or Towns fund or leveling up fund, and others
337 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:10.919 Tom Chance: local, the refugee housing, funding, and so on. They're often using those to support community land trusts to take projects forward.
338 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:30.999 Tom Chance: There have been quite a few examples in neighborhood plans and in local plans, of putting in specific policy in support of community led development. And as a network. We have successfully lobbied to get policy into the national planning or policy framework defining community led development and then creating some more supportive hooks that you can use locally to promote these kinds of approaches.
339 00:42:32.907 --> 00:42:44.040 Tom Chance: things like the planning being supportive, and, you know, helpful with communities at pre-application stage, bringing forward our proposals, ensuring that they can help to navigate the planning system, which is quite
340 00:42:44.270 --> 00:42:48.999 Tom Chance: complex and time consuming and expensive from community point of view.
341 00:42:49.730 --> 00:43:04.340 Tom Chance: and also asset disposal. And this has been more in urban than rural areas. But there's been increasing interest we've had from district councils recently, where they're looking at merging into unitaries and thinking well, before that happens, should we try to safeguard certain assets that we've got
342 00:43:04.921 --> 00:43:11.449 Tom Chance: Or you know whether it's existing existing uses of assets or bits that could be redeveloped for for community use could we transfer those into
343 00:43:11.660 --> 00:43:22.060 Tom Chance: community hands and about a quarter of assets that clts own nationally have come through some sort of public asset disposal, mostly councils.
344 00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:45.840 Tom Chance: So local councils can have a very important role in stimulating and supporting community land trusts, and often at the parish or town Council level, a bit like the way that Janet was describing in the relationship with South. In Shropshire, you see, Clts being a sort of natural partner to the parish or town council, and a way for those councils to support asset development in their area. That's complementary to the other stuff that those councils are doing.
345 00:43:47.670 --> 00:43:58.289 Tom Chance: If you're interested in community land trusts. And also we're here for a while, so we can. I can answer any questions you've got. But there's lots of information on our website, inspiration, some free resources. You can see a map of existing community land trusts
346 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:05.020 Tom Chance: that we know about. You could also join the network. So we are a membership body. We're run by and owned by meet Clts.
347 00:44:05.350 --> 00:44:25.700 Tom Chance: We provide ways for you to network with other Clts in a member space online. And at physical events, we've got handbooks and lots of guidance around things like, how do you run a Clt? How do you do? Local advocacy and community engagement got a very detailed handbook on affordable housing love to develop similar handbooks on those Clts that are doing things like nature restoration.
348 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:41.249 Tom Chance: We run lots of webinars, and we provide training. And we do this national lobbying work. So we're currently, for example, lobbying the government around the land use framework and the role that community ownership could play in enabling communities to address some of the issues that the government has highlighted.
349 00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:48.890 Tom Chance: And we've been around for about 15 years, and we'd love to have more Clts. Our vision is that every community in the country could.
350 00:44:49.570 --> 00:44:55.869 Tom Chance: as part of its toolkit, have a community land trust as a way for them to be more socially, economically, environmentally sustainable.
351 00:44:56.660 --> 00:44:59.209 Tom Chance: Gus, me thanks very much.
352 00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:29.650 Andrew Maliphant: Well done. Thank you very much, Tom. That's amazing. And as I've not been in touch with our local cot lately, but you brought it all back. Lovely idea about community Land Trust being a sort of umbrella body for local action, which is a new idea to me. But I should be taking that on board and fascinating here also about the issue, about who decides what happens with land. I mean, I have a bit of a perception that the new government is more interested in roofs over people's head than the food on their children's plates. So there we go!
353 00:45:30.087 --> 00:45:33.662 Andrew Maliphant: So thank you so much for that. Should we go back?
354 00:45:34.140 --> 00:45:53.049 Andrew Maliphant: in terms of who decides Janet with? Okay, put a couple of questions in the chat. Who decides what happens to land. I assume that means, you know, in in Shropshire. And what are your thoughts on the local nature? Recovery strategies? What are your expectations of them. So if I could ask you to respond to those Gary, and then we'll we'll carry on with other questions.
355 00:45:53.050 --> 00:46:06.550 janet Cobb: Okay. So we're we're operating a hub and spoke model. So we're the Hub. Middle March is Community Land trust. And we've got 4 spokes now, and each of those spokes has got a land management plan.
356 00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:35.869 janet Cobb: So the most important one, from our point of view, is the triple Si site. So we will have a land management plan for minsterly Meadows, which will be overseen by natural England. So there'll be strict rules and regulations that we've got to abide by because it is such an important site. The other sites we get we pay for an ecologist. So we've got management plans that are underpinned by expertise, and we have
357 00:46:35.870 --> 00:46:47.749 janet Cobb: different management groups on the ground, and they're either friends of, or in one case has become their own independent Cic. So they work with us.
358 00:46:47.790 --> 00:46:59.019 janet Cobb: but according to the management plan, and who makes the decisions? Well, we ultimately make the decisions about how this, how these bits of land have to be managed.
359 00:46:59.100 --> 00:47:08.869 janet Cobb: but it's not just at our whim. And then, you know, that's run in front of the the shareholders at the Agm. People are kept informed.
360 00:47:09.070 --> 00:47:32.330 janet Cobb: and the second bit of the question is, what are my thoughts on the local nature? Recovery strategies, my expectations? I don't know. I'm a bit disappointed that the Labour Government document didn't mention local nature recovery strategies. But I can't imagine that they're going to throw 3 years of work into the bin.
361 00:47:32.450 --> 00:47:54.510 janet Cobb: and we'll wait and see. So my thoughts are. They'll only fail if people let them fail. So we get enough people behind local nature recovery strategies, then, politically. That's a dangerous place for any politician to go to when the communities have engaged with local nature recovery strategies. Why would you dump them? It's mad
362 00:47:55.390 --> 00:48:03.269 Andrew Maliphant: I think my general view. Thanks very much, Janet. Yeah, there's community action. And then there's community campaigning. And sometimes we need to do a bit of both
363 00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:06.220 janet Cobb: Yeah, and stop being so polite.
364 00:48:06.220 --> 00:48:19.809 Andrew Maliphant: Well, that's another thing as well. Yeah, okay, right? Thank you so much. we've got a couple more questions in the chat one from Tom. How is the Clt network funded?
365 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.760 Andrew Maliphant: And look, I've seen your hand up, Tristram. I'm I'm yeah
366 00:48:26.356 --> 00:48:37.984 Tom Chance: We. We get roughly a 3rd of our income from these from members and from services we provide, and then some corporate partners. Andrew, I think long hope is actually lapsed. We'd love to have you back
367 00:48:38.290 --> 00:48:41.131 Andrew Maliphant: Have a word, Tom. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Yes.
368 00:48:41.785 --> 00:48:52.060 Tom Chance: And then 2 thirds is Grant, funding principally from the Esme Fairburn Foundation and the Nationwide Foundation, who've been our 2 big supporters in recent years.
369 00:48:52.550 --> 00:48:53.220 Andrew Maliphant: To do this
370 00:48:53.270 --> 00:48:56.959 Tom Chance: Grant, you know the usual charity thing, grant funding to run projects
371 00:48:57.540 --> 00:49:21.099 Andrew Maliphant: Fairband Foundation has been going for ages. I saw somewhere, I think, on their website. They wanted to spend all their money by 2040. I think I've gotten it right. We can help with that, can't we, Tom Keith? You asked how much time is required from individuals in running community Land trusts. Probably Tom and Janet have got some idea, Janet, how much time do you spend on it on your board of management?
372 00:49:21.100 --> 00:49:48.139 janet Cobb: Well, I spend a lot of time, but it's not, you know. It's not required of me. I spend a lot of time organizing events and talking to people and networking. But that's my choice. The minimum amount of time we expect from the board is 2 HA month every month, so we have a board meeting every month. It's just because we're so busy, so much going on that if you missed a month you'd really struggle then to catch up the month after.
373 00:49:48.290 --> 00:50:01.539 janet Cobb: But we I mean, obviously we talk to one another in between. We have field meetings, and I attend, and you know I'm a board member of other organizations as well connected to this. So I just keep doing what I'm doing
374 00:50:01.910 --> 00:50:03.510 Andrew Maliphant: Right. You're the networker. Yes.
375 00:50:03.510 --> 00:50:04.180 janet Cobb: Yeah.
376 00:50:04.180 --> 00:50:09.809 Andrew Maliphant: Does that match the the national picture, Tom? 2 h. Average 2 HA month for board meetings.
377 00:50:10.170 --> 00:50:23.090 Tom Chance: I suppose it it their boards, you know. Some some boards might meet quarterly some might be monthly, some might meet more. It it probably depends what the clt is doing. And and then also the size of the clt, so
378 00:50:24.930 --> 00:50:38.430 Tom Chance: The largest clt has a has a turnover of several several 1 million pounds and has staff and you know, so board members are meeting Quarterly to do the governance bit. And then the the day job is being done by Staff, who are paid, and I think
379 00:50:39.915 --> 00:50:45.569 Tom Chance: at the smallest end. Obviously, yeah, you can make a pretty amount of voluntary time, and I think one of the reasons we've seen
380 00:50:46.150 --> 00:50:53.980 Tom Chance: forms of partnership, for example, between community land trusts and other organizations like how like in Andrew's case, working with the Housing Association is that
381 00:50:54.190 --> 00:51:02.509 Tom Chance: it reduces the load on volunteers. So some Clts really do everything. It's like very diy, you know, self-built housing, and so on, and that becomes an all consuming
382 00:51:02.850 --> 00:51:08.339 Tom Chance: project. If you've got the time and the energy, then it's brilliant. But a lot of Clts basically like to
383 00:51:08.900 --> 00:51:23.089 Tom Chance: work with. We've developed an infrastructure of support organizations who will come in to support you, to deliver complex projects, to create those partnerships for you with people who bring access to finance, technical capability, and so on. So it's not quite so
384 00:51:23.390 --> 00:51:27.010 Tom Chance: daunting as it might otherwise be. If you're doing it yourself.
385 00:51:27.230 --> 00:51:33.979 Tom Chance: I think the other thing to bear in mind, because it's mentioned before we really got going on. The meeting is is the sort of time span of commitment, so
386 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:35.550 Tom Chance: that, you know the
387 00:51:35.950 --> 00:51:46.800 Tom Chance: again depending on what you're doing. But if you're looking to do asset development like you want to develop a community energy scheme, or you want to develop some affordable housing. These things take anybody time.
388 00:51:46.910 --> 00:51:55.980 Tom Chance: There's a study done recently comparing, actually, community approaches to mainstream approaches. And it concluded, there's no difference. And it's sometimes just the communities don't realize how long these things take. So
389 00:51:56.200 --> 00:52:00.460 Tom Chance: average time it would take to develop. A small housing scheme is around 5 to 6 years.
390 00:52:00.660 --> 00:52:12.520 Tom Chance: and that's more or less than time it would take for community. So it's both your 2 HA month, but also thinking you and others might want to be thinking about. Are you willing to put in 2 HA month for 5 or 6 years in order to realize what you want to achieve?
391 00:52:13.660 --> 00:52:20.580 Andrew Maliphant: Thank you. I mean one of our early meetings in in long hope. I think some people turned up wanting to put their names down straightaway for a house
392 00:52:21.270 --> 00:52:36.769 Andrew Maliphant: a few while ago, and certainly I don't know if that's similar with other places to get into booty Land trust housing the 1st port of call is the local housing waiting list. So that's where people have to go. Imagine that's fairly common because of the Housing Association connection.
393 00:52:36.770 --> 00:52:40.430 janet Cobb: From from my point of view, it's it's terrifically exciting.
394 00:52:40.580 --> 00:52:54.190 janet Cobb: Yeah, you know, to see something just take off. And I love talking to people and working with people, and you know you rub off on each other so you can be in a room with 4 or 5 people, and you're all sparking off ideas. And and
395 00:52:54.190 --> 00:53:11.499 janet Cobb: we've just because we got lottery funding for our last piece of land. We've now been in a position to employ a project Coordinator. So we're all volunteers. But we've now got a paid person, and her background is in museum work. So she's an ex museum curator.
396 00:53:11.580 --> 00:53:21.680 janet Cobb: you know, used to working with people very motivated. And it's blooming great, you know. So having, you know, another person who's who's
397 00:53:21.830 --> 00:53:29.289 janet Cobb: as motivated to do all sorts of things. We're even starting to develop a new language like meadowing minster
398 00:53:30.050 --> 00:53:31.350 Andrew Maliphant: Oh, right? Okay.
399 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:33.659 Andrew Maliphant: I hope it's not too painful. Yes.
400 00:53:33.660 --> 00:53:34.075 janet Cobb: No.
401 00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:58.809 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, yeah, I mean, people management, all of us, probably on this call that people management is where it's at, isn't it? And that's what, and, on the other hand, is not a stranger's fault, because they say in Yorkshire, so there we go. So it's not always straightforward. But we say partnership working is more work for is not easier. It's just more work for a better result. But there we go. You think you're having a have a hand in there. What we
402 00:53:58.810 --> 00:54:05.540 tristram cary: Yeah, I wanted to come back, Janet, on this thing of the democracy. So you you set up the Land Trust to concentrate on nature recovery.
403 00:54:05.660 --> 00:54:08.730 tristram cary: But all your members have a vote. Is that is that how it works
404 00:54:08.730 --> 00:54:10.489 janet Cobb: Oh, the shareholders, the shareholders.
405 00:54:10.490 --> 00:54:21.519 tristram cary: Sorry your shoulders, your shoulders. But is, does that create any sort of danger that people want to say? Well, no. Actually, we want social housing now. So we want to change the we want to change the remit of the Clt.
406 00:54:22.490 --> 00:54:24.219 janet Cobb: That's not happened yet.
407 00:54:24.730 --> 00:54:49.229 janet Cobb: It is an interesting potential development. And we've got this other community land trust in Bishop's Castle that we're working quite closely alongside. I wouldn't say we're working with them, but I'm quite interested in connecting nature recovery and social housing. I don't think there's any conflict there, and I think we should be pushing that message. Yeah, that's not happened yet, but it may well do
408 00:54:49.230 --> 00:54:50.530 tristram cary: It's controllable.
409 00:54:50.530 --> 00:54:53.350 janet Cobb: But it's good to have those conversations, isn't it? It's
410 00:54:53.350 --> 00:54:56.659 tristram cary: But yeah, so long as it doesn't descend in sort of chaos and infighting
411 00:54:56.660 --> 00:54:59.840 janet Cobb: Yeah, well, it hasn't yet, and we've navigated we
412 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:03.500 janet Cobb: one awkward situation which we've navigated, which is
413 00:55:03.500 --> 00:55:03.850 tristram cary: Right.
414 00:55:03.850 --> 00:55:16.470 janet Cobb: One group of people did set up their own community interest company. But we're still, you know, we are still the landowner. So you know that could have been an awkward situation, but we've resolved it in the end.
415 00:55:17.070 --> 00:55:18.360 tristram cary: Well done. Thank you.
416 00:55:18.650 --> 00:55:47.049 Andrew Maliphant: We had to talk a couple of whiles ago about climate gardens, about people using their own private gardens to create wildlife habitats. I see Tom's nodding there. So I mean, that's another avenue in, I've also heard come across lately something called the River of Flowers. So we've had climate gardens. We've had B squares, and then we've got river of flowers and people thinking about very much about wildlife corridors and networks for pollinating insects and other critters as well. So there's lots of these good ideas coming forward. Yeah.
417 00:55:48.040 --> 00:56:07.759 Tom Chance: I think on that on that, Andrew. What we often find is that the people who are involved in setting up the Clt are themselves often connected into many other community initiatives like that. I just see it as it's like the community interest is one of the tools you have is in your box as a community to do things, and that you know it's not that it's the only thing. And you sort of think about how you connect these different
418 00:56:07.850 --> 00:56:32.139 Tom Chance: ideas up, and that it gives you some extra options that communities generally don't have at the moment, which is, you know, you can sort of do things in your own gardens, and you you can do things where the Council lets you make use of some land so long as that, and until they change their mind and so on. But it's sort of well, what about all the other land in the area and all the stuff that's being developed, and all the housing that's being built, and that bit of that big SSI site that's coming up. That's up for sale, and so on and so forth. That's the bit the clt gives you.
419 00:56:32.520 --> 00:56:53.899 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, yeah. Making connections is the great things that again, another of my many theories in any place, it doesn't matter the size of it. There's 20 people that do everything you know, that applies to small villages, as it probably applies in London as well. But we know we know the kind of people we are. And so we've got someone in the room. And, Janet, you're clearly one of those motivators that gets things happening very much. So
420 00:56:53.900 --> 00:57:03.379 janet Cobb: We're running a project in Shropshire called, which runs alongside the Community Land Trust. It's actually on our website, which is restoring Shropshire's Virtues project.
421 00:57:03.640 --> 00:57:07.690 janet Cobb: So we're we've been running that project since 2,016,
422 00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:20.289 janet Cobb: and that was the 1st thing I got involved in in Shropshire. But that's resulted in 2 things. One is a project that looks at the cost benefit, analysis of restoring the verges.
423 00:57:20.290 --> 00:57:38.480 janet Cobb: and the second one is the second strand of that is setting up small volunteer groups, and we've got over 40 small volunteer groups now who have adopted the length of verge and are restoring that to wildflowers. And it's a no brainer, so it saves money. It hits the biodiversity net gain stuff.
424 00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:42.269 janet Cobb: It hits the carbon capture stuff, and it makes the contract cheaper.
425 00:57:42.270 --> 00:57:52.159 janet Cobb: So we're now at the table negotiating with the highways department on the change of contract, so that you know we didn't know that was going to happen at the beginning. But yeah.
426 00:57:52.640 --> 00:58:07.779 Andrew Maliphant: No, that's great. And you're talking about doors opening. And you know sometimes these missions you suddenly get. I firmly believe every project has its time. You know there are times when all of a sudden, right here we go, and that you just give us another example of that.
427 00:58:08.341 --> 00:58:30.109 Andrew Maliphant: Great! I'm so pleased we've we've had both of you here today because to have Tom giving us the bigger picture, and Janet giving the new the world from the ground. It's been a brilliant, a brilliant combination. Thank you so much for all of this. Anybody else. Gary, Jenny, anybody else got any questions or points you want want to raise.
428 00:58:31.610 --> 00:58:36.789 Andrew Maliphant: While you think about that, I'll just check with Pilot what's happening next next meeting, so I can announce it. Yeah.
429 00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:44.589 Andrew Maliphant: Trester, does any of this any of this resonate with the parish online?
430 00:58:46.780 --> 00:58:49.309 tristram cary: Yes, potentially very much so.
431 00:58:49.610 --> 00:59:08.629 tristram cary: So Janice and Tom, I run a company called Geosphere, and we have a product called Parish Online, which provides mapping tools to parishes, and there's about 1,800 parishes across the country that use it. And what we want to do is embed guidance on things like you know how to nature recovery, and how a parish should go about it.
432 00:59:08.790 --> 00:59:17.190 tristram cary: But we haven't done that yet for nature recovery, but we'd very much like to, so that might be a useful thing to discuss with you both
433 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:17.910 janet Cobb: So.
434 00:59:17.910 --> 00:59:32.220 janet Cobb: Tristan, if you email me, I can send you. I've just written up a case study about Middlemarche's Community Land Trust for the Exeter University work and 3 case studies. They specifically wanted case studies from parishes.
435 00:59:32.330 --> 00:59:43.579 janet Cobb: So we've got 4 4 case studies. And I'm starting to collect case studies from other town and parish councils across Shropshire. If those are of interest, that would be quite
436 00:59:44.550 --> 00:59:45.020 tristram cary: Great
437 00:59:45.020 --> 00:59:46.029 janet Cobb: Yeah, it does.
438 00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:46.770 tristram cary: Thank you.
439 00:59:47.074 --> 00:59:48.290 janet Cobb: Drop me an email
440 00:59:48.820 --> 00:59:50.450 Andrew Maliphant: Thank you.
441 00:59:50.680 --> 01:00:06.469 Andrew Maliphant: I keep coming back, Tom, to your suggestion that community land trusts can be can be, an absorbing institution that brings all the various things together. You're absolutely right about some. A lot of initiatives are have felt. They've had to be very focused on whatever it is they're doing
442 01:00:06.470 --> 01:00:27.769 Andrew Maliphant: back in the day in Gloucestershire, the local voluntary sector organization said, Well, why don't we get some of these guys to share their back office services, save them money. And so then they concentrate on their missions, and it didn't take off because people were so used to doing this, and they couldn't really work sideways, and that sounds like that's been a bit your experience as well
443 01:00:28.780 --> 01:00:31.320 Tom Chance: Yeah. And I think it's also sort of
444 01:00:31.430 --> 01:00:42.900 Tom Chance: it's about resilience over time, like, I know, Janet and Middlemarches have been being contacted by people who set up a kind of you know they have a bit of land somewhere. They're enthusiastic about 20 years ago, but then people kind of lose interest, and it's more resilient to have
445 01:00:43.240 --> 01:00:48.859 Tom Chance: one board trying to govern these things. And then also, this thing about changing needs that well, you might have.
446 01:00:49.320 --> 01:01:03.510 Tom Chance: I used to live somewhere, which had 5 different trusts, each like one for the library, one for an old building, one for a park, and so on. You just think! Well, you've all given yourself these narrow objects. But what if the community's needs are different in 20 years time? And how do you respond to all of that. So there's just something about
447 01:01:04.100 --> 01:01:07.879 Tom Chance: doing that differently. And and the other thing with Janet's that we see quite a lot is.
448 01:01:08.070 --> 01:01:19.129 Tom Chance: I think Janet describes it as hub and spoke where the Community Land Trust owns the underlying assets, but it can lease those 2 or devolve management of those to different groups to kind of let people you know the group that was interested in
449 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:27.319 Tom Chance: buying the pub. Well, let's bring the pub into the portfolio, and you can run it as a pub, but there's a sort of the mothership underlying it all that's holding that together.
450 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:46.270 Andrew Maliphant: I can see my see me getting in touch with you again about this, Tom, because I think if this is going to be a useful way forward, certainly for some places. Then we could think about how we sort of promote that. What we're doing a great deal with the great collaboration is working with town and parish councils with getting them together with their communities.
451 01:01:46.460 --> 01:02:06.560 Andrew Maliphant: That isn't always necessarily straightforward. But then there are these other mechanisms that people use. A friend of mine's got a pub that he's got under community benefit society. I'm chair of my community library over the road here, and that's also a community benefit society. So in a sense, if there's going to be a more inclusive
452 01:02:06.610 --> 01:02:22.400 Andrew Maliphant: way of doing things and and the way you describe, we we sort of get that got to get that idea in first, st really. But I hadn't heard that one before. But it is a you know. It is a fascinating concept it will certainly be. It needs to be an option in some places at the very least, doesn't it?
453 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:39.830 janet Cobb: I think I think having the mothership idea is really important in terms of political clout as well. So the more people you and the more organizations you can get singing from the same song sheet. Then you can start to, really, you know, have an impact.
454 01:02:40.050 --> 01:02:55.689 janet Cobb: So so I'm dead keen on keeping the Middlemarches Community Land Trust family together. I'm not keen on people going off doing their own thing, because I just think that we're united in our objectives, and it just gives us strength in numbers
455 01:02:56.980 --> 01:03:22.830 Andrew Maliphant: Town and parish councils may not always be the ideal people to to be that mothership, partly because they can strand in terms of what they, what they're allowed to do and what they can do and what they can't do. But they can have. They can have working groups, but working groups of a Parish council don't have the same. They're not incorporated bodies, you know, of their own right. So the truth is out there, as I say, and I think thank you for that, Tom, because I think we need these different
456 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:30.580 Andrew Maliphant: opportunities. And and it's like having different arrows in your quiver. There's different ways that people can do stuff, and that that's that's that's very good to know.
457 01:03:31.090 --> 01:04:01.060 Andrew Maliphant: Great. Well, we've been, we've been. We've been small but select this morning. But I think we've had an amazing discussion, some great feedback and questions, and I can only say that this this particular session is going to be very much looked at, because we publish all the past questions. If we could ask. If I could ask Janet and Tom to send their presentations over to Graham, please, so that he can put them on there as well. And next week we'll be talking about Manchester City, the 1st carbon literacy city.
458 01:04:01.110 --> 01:04:05.300 Andrew Maliphant: We'll find out more about. Yeah. I know, I used to work
459 01:04:05.300 --> 01:04:05.920 tristram cary: Good.
460 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:16.809 Andrew Maliphant: They have to say for themselves. But, my word, these sessions on Wednesday middays have really taken off the things that we here and talk about today. But meanwhile big round of applause. Thank you for
461 01:04:16.810 --> 01:04:18.510 tristram cary: Yeah, thank you very much. Very interesting.
462 01:04:18.510 --> 01:04:27.045 Andrew Maliphant: So much for everything you've done, said. Keep on doing what you're doing. And, Tom, I'll have a word. Let's see where get get the subs together again for you.
463 01:04:27.500 --> 01:04:33.019 Andrew Maliphant: And sadly, they've just lost a couple of members from the original board. But I'm I'm still in touch with
464 01:04:33.490 --> 01:04:34.340 Andrew Maliphant: great
465 01:04:34.550 --> 01:04:35.859 tristram cary: Thank you very much.
466 01:04:36.070 --> 01:04:38.859 Andrew Maliphant: Thank you, everybody. Let us go forward together again
467 01:04:38.860 --> 01:04:39.330 Tom Chance: Thanks, Andrea.
468 01:04:39.750 --> 01:04:40.800 Andrew Maliphant: Take it.
469 01:04:41.210 --> 01:04:42.870 Andrew Maliphant: Cheers to cheers, John.
470 01:04:43.230 --> 01:04:44.410 Andrew Maliphant: You're right there, Jenny.
471 01:04:52.420 --> 01:04:53.100 Andrew Maliphant: Okay.
