Banter 88: 24Sep25 Local Partnerships, with Paul Bourgeois

Introduction to Local Partnerships work with local authorities, the public sector and their stakeholders Why partnering and collaboration is key, grass roots to central government Lessons of 30 years

Video Timeline:

00:00 - 35:25 Presentation

35:25 - 63:31(end) Q & A session

Disclaimer:

“Paul acknowledges that some specific topics during the Q&A session are outside his area of particular expertise, and thus his comments should be taken as his personal reaction to the question rather than his professional or Local Partnerships view”.

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Presentation:

3MB

Great Collaboration 2025 09 24 slide deck.pdf

pdf

You may download this presentation if desired; a markdown copy is presented at the bottom of the page for the AI Search Engine to do its stuff

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Meeting Summary:

Sep 24, 2025 11:54 AM London ID: 834 5460 8536

Quick recap

The meeting focused on Paul's experience working with local partnerships and his organization's role as a public sector improvement consultancy, including their work with various sectors and services. Paul discussed their unique ownership structure and business model, highlighting their expertise in areas like renewable energy, energy efficiency, and net zero initiatives while emphasizing their commitment to sharing resources and best practices with the public sector community. The discussion concluded with conversations about environmental policy evolution, the importance of grassroots action and community engagement, and challenges around retrofitting existing homes and meeting net zero targets, with participants exploring potential solutions and next steps.

Next steps

• Graham: Distribute Paul's presentation slides to meeting attendees who were absent due to summer holidays.

• Paul: Share presentation slides with Graham for circulation to the group.

• Allan: Email Paul for guidance and documentation on community benefit arrangements for solar farms in Shropshire.

• Paul: Provide Allan with examples and guidance on holistic community benefit approaches for renewable energy projects.

• Graham: Facilitate any follow-up questions from the team to Paul.

Summary

Transition to Local Partnerships Role

Paul shared his 14-month experience working with local partnerships, highlighting his transition from academia to this role due to organizational challenges and a desire for change. He discussed the unique dynamics of working in a government-owned organization with a public sector approach, noting the variety of sectors he has engaged with, including parish and town councils, community groups, and third sector organizations. Paul emphasized the importance of understanding different sectors and contexts, which he believes provides valuable insights into current challenges and opportunities in the environmental and climate sectors.

Local Government Interface Services

Paul explained that their organization, owned by the Local Government Association, HM Treasury, and the Welsh Government, acts as an interface between local and central government. He described their work in connecting people and organizations, particularly in areas of climate change, waste efficiency, and renewable energy. Paul highlighted their three main business services: the climate team, which focuses on energy efficiency, waste, housing, and regeneration; and their finance team, which works with investors.

Public Sector Consultancy Expertise Overview

Paul explained that his organization, which operates as a public sector improvement consultancy, works with local authorities to renegotiate terms on PFI and PPP programs, energy contracts, and other public services. He highlighted their team's expertise, including in-house solicitors, commercial accountants, and former chief executives, and emphasized their commitment to sharing best practices and resources, such as toolkits and dashboards, with the wider public sector community. Paul also mentioned their work on local government reorganization, involvement in the NHS and social care sectors, and their annual impact reporting to demonstrate their contributions in areas like carbon reduction, cost savings, and community engagement.

Local Authority Renewable Energy Initiatives

Paul discussed the company's work with local authorities, focusing on renewable energy, energy efficiency, and net zero initiatives. He explained their unique ownership structure, which requires them to work primarily for English and Welsh local authorities, with any profits returned to owners. Paul highlighted several projects, including work with Net Zero hubs, West Suffolk's local plan, and heat networks in Milton Keynes and London. He also mentioned efforts to secure better community benefits from large renewable energy infrastructure projects, such as wind farms and Sizewell.

Solar Farm Community Benefits Discussion

Paul discussed community benefits from solar farms, offering to share guidance and examples with Allan for Shropshire's revamp. He emphasized the importance of a holistic approach to community investment, highlighting that larger, long-term projects are more attractive to investors. Paul also touched on the commercial support and transformation work his team provides to local authorities, including legal and accounting expertise, as well as place-based work in housing, regeneration, and health and wellbeing.

Community Engagement and Housing Innovation

Paul discussed the organization's work with local authorities, focusing on innovative projects like prisons and housing building, as well as their significant presence in Wales through the Sustainable Communities for Learning program. He emphasized the importance of human oversight in AI processes and highlighted their data analytics capabilities, including GIS and statistical mapping. Paul also shared a recent project involving 45 organizations to co-design a housing retrofit strategy, stressing the benefits of community engagement and collaboration for better decision-making and social inclusion.

Reframing Net Zero Messaging

Paul discussed the evolution of environmental policies from Local Agenda 21 in 1992 to the current focus on net zero, highlighting key milestones and challenges along the way. He emphasized the need to reframe net zero and climate change terminology due to public divisiveness and political exploitation, suggesting a shift towards terms like resilience and well-being that resonate with a broader audience. Paul concluded that while net zero remains important, organizations must adapt their messaging to gain public support and address climate change effectively.

Grassroots Collaboration for Community Innovation

Paul discussed the evolving role of local authorities and the importance of grassroots action in supporting community initiatives and innovation. He highlighted the need for continued collaboration between communities, third sectors, and local authorities to address challenges and pilot new solutions. Paul also emphasized the significance of various forms of capital, including natural, human, and social capital, in driving community-based projects. Graham asked Paul if he saw himself as a channel of communication between the grassroots level and upper government, to which Paul confirmed this role, noting their ability to help government departments refine questions and conduct discovery phases.

Retrofitting Homes for Net Zero

Graham and Paul discussed the challenges and opportunities around retrofitting existing homes and the standards for new builds to meet net zero targets. Paul highlighted the need for a rethinking of sustainable new-build properties across the UK, mentioning local authorities like Cambridgeshire that are setting strict requirements. They also touched on the potential for retrofit to be used as a community benefit in large infrastructure projects, with Paul suggesting the use of revolving funds for this purpose. Graham asked about the lack of push for higher standards at a national level, to which Paul responded that he would take this question back to his colleague who leads on housing issues.

Parish Climate Planning Support Initiative

The group discussed challenges faced by parish councils in creating climate and community energy plans due to overwhelming guidance and resources. Tristram suggested that the Great Collaboration could help by identifying best practices and creating a simplified document for parish councils. Paul agreed to curate focused resources for parish-level use if provided with specific questions. Allan highlighted the importance of carbon literacy tools for parishes and suggested exploring ways to share data between local authorities and government levels. Paul offered to follow up on Allan's suggestion and mentioned ongoing discussions with the Carbon Literacy Trust.

Somerset Land Partnership Challenges

Andrew discussed the lack of a local partnership between landowners, DEFRA, and organizations implementing nature recovery schemes in Somerset. He highlighted the challenges faced by farmers, particularly with marginal land management, and the need for a mechanism to assist farmers in preserving their land environmentally. Paul mentioned ongoing projects and collaborations, including work with DEFRA and local authorities, and offered to share information with his colleagues for potential solutions.

Public Sector Service Procurement Flexibility

Paul explained that his organization, which is owned by three public sector organizations, charges for its services as it does not receive funding. He described their flexibility in working with local authorities, including the ability to pivot work based on discoveries made during initial phases and providing results within specific timeframes. Paul clarified that while they can compete in open tenders, they often work under a TECL status, which allows them to be procured exemptly by local authorities, offering benefits like quick turnaround and cost efficiency. Graham appreciated Paul's presentation and invited attendees to email him directly for further information, to which Paul agreed to provide a more detailed response.

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Chat:

01:06:38 Dave Faulkner: Sorry but need to go now. Really interesting organisation and a very interesting role in Government. Thanks for an interesting and information presentation Paul

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Audio Transcript: (for the AI search engine)

62 00:09:42.900 --> 00:09:45.880 Paul Bourgeois: Right, so… So, is that better?

63 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:47.720 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: That's much better, yep.

64 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.530 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, can everybody read? Hopefully you can read it, or depending on the size of your stream.

65 00:09:51.530 --> 00:09:53.000 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Very clear, very clear.

66 00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:58.079 Paul Bourgeois: Brilliant. Okay, so, would you like me to start now, or are you waiting for anybody else?

67 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:58.799 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Nope, please do not.

68 00:09:59.270 --> 00:10:14.669 Paul Bourgeois: Well, thanks everybody for joining, this small and exclusive group of people this morning. I appreciate there's quite a lot of people on leave and various things, but nonetheless, I mean, I'm happy to share the slides afterwards, Graeme, if you want to circulate and.

69 00:10:14.670 --> 00:10:15.150 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yes, please.

70 00:10:15.150 --> 00:10:23.529 Paul Bourgeois: people want to come back to me and have a… through you and facilitate, you know, any other questions as such. So,

71 00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:38.440 Paul Bourgeois: Graham asked me just to come and talk a little bit about local partnerships, and reflect and provide some insight on some of the work that I am doing, and potentially have been doing historically, because I think it's all relevant.

72 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:40.800 Paul Bourgeois: For me, very much a…

73 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:51.850 Paul Bourgeois: a renaissance, if you like, in the environmental climate, call it what you will, green movement over the last, sort of, nearly 30 years that I've been working in that space. And I think

74 00:10:51.980 --> 00:11:09.079 Paul Bourgeois: there's lots of challenges that we've got, but lots of opportunities. So, I thought the first thing to do would be just to really give you… and actually, Graeme, you did a really good job in a paragraph of explaining what local partnerships was, but I'd like to provide a little bit more depth, because I think

75 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:20.190 Paul Bourgeois: As an organization, although we have a very specific mandate, we do touch a lot of different areas, both thematically and organizationally.

76 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:27.879 Paul Bourgeois: And I think for that reason, that gives quite a lot of in-depth opportunities that we can see in terms of connecting.

77 00:11:28.190 --> 00:11:46.000 Paul Bourgeois: connecting people, connecting organizations. So, I'm going to have a… I'm going to take, sort of, the liberty, as I would be expected to do, but I'm Mark Holmes Director, of just giving you a few slides to give a bit of depth as the organization, and that in itself might be quite useful, I hope. So,

78 00:11:46.420 --> 00:11:54.450 Paul Bourgeois: as Graham put in the email earlier, we're owned by the local government association.

79 00:11:54.880 --> 00:11:57.939 Paul Bourgeois: Treasury, and the Welsh Government.

80 00:11:58.260 --> 00:12:14.820 Paul Bourgeois: And that puts us in a useful position whereby, because we are owned by them, we can basically work for them and help them, to be more efficient or effective, drop in when they suddenly need us for various, technical or organisational

81 00:12:15.060 --> 00:12:18.430 Paul Bourgeois: Activities.

82 00:12:18.700 --> 00:12:25.890 Paul Bourgeois: But, importantly, we provide the interface between local and central government. So, for example, when the Labour government came in last

83 00:12:26.150 --> 00:12:31.960 Paul Bourgeois: July, or a year ago, over a year ago now, and we were asked to

84 00:12:33.170 --> 00:12:38.580 Paul Bourgeois: Engage as many local authorities as we could about the missions and the pledges.

85 00:12:38.730 --> 00:12:41.940 Paul Bourgeois: With the key question about how do we

86 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:51.089 Paul Bourgeois: How do we help local authorities deliver those missions and manifesto pledges at a local level? And…

87 00:12:51.360 --> 00:13:10.370 Paul Bourgeois: That was really interesting. So, I mean, I spent many a workshop in August and September last year with local authority chief execs and directors, trying to navigate and basically say, what is it that we can tell central government, through local government association, that can help you do what you need to do? Whether that's play space.

88 00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:13.019 Paul Bourgeois: Whether that's, new powers.

89 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:27.189 Paul Bourgeois: you know, specific things like compulsory purchase orders to get projects through, all those sorts of things. So that was useful in itself, and it's that interface between the local and central government that is a space we try and occupy and try to support both sides of

90 00:13:27.190 --> 00:13:34.949 Paul Bourgeois: of that dynamic. And… but it doesn't escape me that, in my mind, it tends to work in triangles, in threes, is that the component to that is

91 00:13:34.950 --> 00:13:43.350 Paul Bourgeois: the community, the local-based organizations, and individuals working at the coalface, if you want to use that non…

92 00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:45.230 Paul Bourgeois: Climate change turn.

93 00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:47.719 Paul Bourgeois: But at grassroots level.

94 00:13:48.670 --> 00:13:56.430 Paul Bourgeois: So, what we do is we do a lot of things around major infrastructure, definitely tackling climate change challenges, and I'll talk about our

95 00:13:56.660 --> 00:13:59.660 Paul Bourgeois: organizational,

96 00:13:59.950 --> 00:14:12.460 Paul Bourgeois: characteristics, if you like, and how we all fit together. We do a lot of things about waste efficiency and renewable energy particularly, but very much on a place-based, public sector ecosystem basis.

97 00:14:13.390 --> 00:14:26.570 Paul Bourgeois: Been around 15 years, formed out of different organizations that were sort of, spin-offs, with specific roles, and then brought together that 15 years ago to form local partnerships.

98 00:14:27.590 --> 00:14:30.149 Paul Bourgeois: We have 3 main…

99 00:14:30.450 --> 00:14:37.690 Paul Bourgeois: business service offers, if you like, and teams. We have the climate team, which hopefully you'll appreciate is one of the biggest

100 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:42.319 Paul Bourgeois: within. So that… that shows you really where our, our space

101 00:14:42.400 --> 00:14:59.459 Paul Bourgeois: our activity spaces, so that's everything from energy efficiency, waste, housing, regeneration, definitely a lot in the new finance. We try not to use green finance, because talking to big finance houses and investors, finance is finance, no matter if it's green, brown, or tartan.

102 00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:02.200 Paul Bourgeois: And a lot of transformational stuff.

103 00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:08.169 Paul Bourgeois: We also have, commercial and place teams that are lesser in numbers of people.

104 00:15:08.890 --> 00:15:19.019 Paul Bourgeois: So we try to basically work with local authorities to help renegotiate for them, particularly around PFI and PPP programs, get them a better deal.

105 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:25.799 Paul Bourgeois: And that can involve, you know, energy contracts as well. You know, we have within our team.

106 00:15:26.210 --> 00:15:32.360 Paul Bourgeois: in-house solicitors, lawyers, if you want to use the current parlance. I still call them solicitors.

107 00:15:32.530 --> 00:15:47.099 Paul Bourgeois: commercial accountants from big, you know, organisations, like PwC, for example. And a lot of our team members are ex-chief execs, having worked up the ranks, exec directors who've done specific things in this space.

108 00:15:47.390 --> 00:15:55.669 Paul Bourgeois: We also have a place team, which does a lot around housing and regeneration, health and social care. We've done work for the NHS.

109 00:15:55.750 --> 00:16:04.939 Paul Bourgeois: CCGs and, ICB, so integrated care boards as well. And, which I'll touch again in a few slides' time, we're…

110 00:16:04.990 --> 00:16:19.290 Paul Bourgeois: Very involved in the local government reorganization and devolution piece, because that has a massive impact at a local level, with the current 300-odd local authorities being reduced down to a much smaller number.

111 00:16:20.770 --> 00:16:37.730 Paul Bourgeois: What we try to do is any work that we do, even though we are effectively a consultancy, we like to call ourselves more of a public serv… public sector improvement organization. So, we're asked to help where they don't have the skills, they don't have the time.

112 00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:54.210 Paul Bourgeois: or there's an urgent need. And when we do that, we always make sure that whatever we do as a result is shared within the wider local authority public sector community. We don't hold secrets in that regard, so if we produce a toolkit, or a dashboard, or some sort of tool.

113 00:16:54.510 --> 00:17:04.009 Paul Bourgeois: we make sure it's available, so there's some examples there that you can get from our website in the Resource Hub, so you can get our Climate Adaptation Toolkit, the Domestic Retrofit Handbook.

114 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:13.509 Paul Bourgeois: greenhouse gas accounting tool, for example, and another of other things. And the idea is that then other organizations can use those, for free.

115 00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:17.870 Paul Bourgeois: Because it's been paid for by the public person, should be available to everybody.

116 00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:22.609 Paul Bourgeois: We've done a lot of stuff, as you might expect, through COVID.

117 00:17:23.010 --> 00:17:41.799 Paul Bourgeois: But also, more recently, some PFI contracts, which are about to expire, and normally, again, not my area of expertise, but definitely colleagues have had some really good wins in terms of those in renegotiating much better terms, financial terms, for the local authorities involved.

118 00:17:42.040 --> 00:17:46.620 Paul Bourgeois: We always put within our terms of conditions when we… that we…

119 00:17:46.860 --> 00:17:48.990 Paul Bourgeois: We will always share best practice.

120 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:54.000 Paul Bourgeois: we have that written in from day one. So, if somebody asks us to do a piece of work.

121 00:17:54.230 --> 00:18:03.190 Paul Bourgeois: a local authority, for example, and we've done it already. We don't just repackage and sell it again for the price they're willing to pay. We say, actually, we can just… that's a day's work.

122 00:18:03.300 --> 00:18:08.500 Paul Bourgeois: we've done some of this before, let's just do a quick review and do it for what you need. So,

123 00:18:09.020 --> 00:18:11.210 Paul Bourgeois: We are there to support them.

124 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:22.979 Paul Bourgeois: If you're interested, I'm not going to go through all the stats on the screen. We do an annual impact report to demonstrate why we have an impact, and why we are

125 00:18:23.100 --> 00:18:39.160 Paul Bourgeois: there to do what we do. And you've got, obviously, metrics to do with carbon, to do with money, to do with generation, if it's about renewable energy, and the number of people that we engage with, and how many people use our various tools and resources that we produce.

126 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:53.030 Paul Bourgeois: I'm going to very quickly, because I obviously want to get to the hub of… or the nub, if you like, of the discussion today, but to give you a little bit more depth as to those three areas, and I won't… I won't talk about what's on the left, I'll just…

127 00:18:53.140 --> 00:19:05.749 Paul Bourgeois: talk to the right screen, and obviously afterwards you can have a look at my, slides. So, as I mentioned before, resource efficiency and waste is a very big thing. We call it zero waste. That's the ambition.

128 00:19:06.110 --> 00:19:23.990 Paul Bourgeois: We're doing a lot of work. We have quite a big team, looking at a whole range of opportunities with local authorities, and quite often their supply chain and subcontractors in that space. We do a lot of work within renewables. We've helped local authorities to

129 00:19:24.060 --> 00:19:30.469 Paul Bourgeois: Create better renewable energy or low-carbon energy systems.

130 00:19:30.790 --> 00:19:42.879 Paul Bourgeois: For financial benefit, as well as carbon benefit for those local authorities. So they become less reliant, and less money has to be spent. And that goes hand in glove, as you'd expect, with the energy efficiency side.

131 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.280 Paul Bourgeois: And making sure that their buildings, their assets.

132 00:19:47.470 --> 00:19:50.599 Paul Bourgeois: Are as efficient and as effective as possible.

133 00:19:51.030 --> 00:19:56.750 Paul Bourgeois: We also do a lot around the net zero and climate adaptation piece. We're doing quite a lot of work at the moment with DFT.

134 00:19:56.890 --> 00:20:10.559 Paul Bourgeois: across the UK. What I didn't say earlier on is because of our ownership structure being predominantly England and Wales, we do work in Scotland, but they are classed as what… and in Northern Ireland, but those are classed as non-owner work.

135 00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:14.539 Paul Bourgeois: And we're having a unique position where we have to work for our owners.

136 00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:17.530 Paul Bourgeois: 80% of our turnover.

137 00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:26.730 Paul Bourgeois: We try to be cost neutral, but if we do make a profit at the end of the year, that is returned to our owners with a…

138 00:20:27.280 --> 00:20:43.459 Paul Bourgeois: a suggestion of where we think those local authorities and public sector organisations need some support, where there's no funding available, on the basis that we can then suggest, actually, you know, there's a profit here, would you like to spend that with them in the next year? Because they've told us they want some help in this space.

139 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.129 Paul Bourgeois: So we tried to circulate the money that way.

140 00:20:46.660 --> 00:21:06.180 Paul Bourgeois: A few examples, again, I'm not going to run through them, but we do… we've been working with the Net Zero hubs, which you may have heard of. There are five of those in England, run by Desnes, in a whole range of things. We've done specific things around, you know, baseline for emissions, to make sure that those local authorities with a good ambition

141 00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:10.399 Paul Bourgeois: in the climate space have got that robust evidence base to work from.

142 00:21:10.630 --> 00:21:20.629 Paul Bourgeois: I worked on the West Suffolk, project around their local plan, so really push… pushing the boundary, and then the inspectors going, well, you can't do that, and then

143 00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:33.460 Paul Bourgeois: they're sort of in a position where we support them, give them the robust evidence, say, well, actually, you can. And other inspectors in other local authority areas have allowed this under these bases, so it's that supporting mechanism.

144 00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:40.920 Paul Bourgeois: And things like heat networks, as you may be familiar, so Milton Keynes, amongst others, we do a lot of work in London as well.

145 00:21:41.770 --> 00:21:48.999 Paul Bourgeois: Looking at the opportunity for citywide heat networks or big urban area heat networks, because it's good

146 00:21:49.210 --> 00:22:01.659 Paul Bourgeois: good practice, and it's good opportunity for local authorities to start to generate their own income for reinvestment. A number of local authorities will invest in the sort of renewable energy space.

147 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:14.879 Paul Bourgeois: And the return they get, they can use for things that are less well supported by government grants. For example, adult social care. There are good examples in the east of England where that's been the case, for example.

148 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:24.350 Paul Bourgeois: I put this one up because I think this is a community one, so you might be familiar with national certificate, Infrastructure Planning, sort of NSIPs.

149 00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:42.300 Paul Bourgeois: those are, where we try to work with the local authority to get a much better community benefit, usually within financial rain areas. This is an area that a particular colleague of mine is… has done a lot of work, with Rutland and other local authorities. We have a number of live

150 00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:46.009 Paul Bourgeois: Clients at the moment who we are looking at pushing

151 00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:56.340 Paul Bourgeois: the sort of boundaries with the big renewable energy infrastructure, so people that do wind farms, for example, offshore. Sizewell is another example.

152 00:22:56.630 --> 00:23:03.380 Paul Bourgeois: And rather than them saying, here's a pot of money, get your communities to bid for it, we are trying to make the suggestion now.

153 00:23:03.590 --> 00:23:17.650 Paul Bourgeois: with success, that you need to not only just say, here's a pot of money, you know, let's put solar PV on village halls, for example, which is obviously a common thing, or invest in playgrounds, is be a bit more holistic about it.

154 00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:24.749 Paul Bourgeois: And allow those communities with their local authorities to, be very much in the driving seat.

155 00:23:24.830 --> 00:23:31.079 Paul Bourgeois: And we've helped with a number of pieces of guidance in that space, as well as examples.

156 00:23:31.290 --> 00:23:33.049 Paul Bourgeois: Alan, you've got your hand up.

157 00:23:33.620 --> 00:23:49.810 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Yeah, Paul, I'm interested here, because, the community benefit for a new solar farm, obviously it's how to gear that to the way that you discuss it with the developer. Are you engaged in that process, or do you have some documentation to support that process for.

158 00:23:50.330 --> 00:23:51.620 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Local authority.

159 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:56.239 Paul Bourgeois: A number of my colleagues have done that over the last, last 3 or 4 years.

160 00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:10.980 Paul Bourgeois: this being one of the examples, and some others around Oxfordshire, and now the east of England. I'm going to be more involved with that. If you want to ping me an email afterwards, if you've got any specific areas that you'd

161 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:16.329 Paul Bourgeois: want me to have a look for any guidance that we've got, or anything in the public domain I can share with you.

162 00:24:16.330 --> 00:24:18.550 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Sure. Then I'm happy… I'm happy to do that.

163 00:24:18.840 --> 00:24:23.409 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Brilliant. We're just in the throes of doing that for Shropshire, and that's why I asked.

164 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:23.790 Paul Bourgeois: Okay.

165 00:24:23.790 --> 00:24:25.400 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Revumping ours.

166 00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:37.049 Paul Bourgeois: I mean, because we've got, sort of, expertise in that space, proven and successful expertise, normally, if a local authority doesn't know we can help them, they don't know to come to us, so…

167 00:24:37.090 --> 00:24:55.600 Paul Bourgeois: Examples like this, where somebody else says, actually, we would like to derive a much more holistic, longer-term benefit over 20 years, for example, multi-million pounds worth of money available, rather than… rather than the developer, the renewable energy developer, having, if you like, control over that.

168 00:24:55.600 --> 00:25:05.079 Paul Bourgeois: and piecemeal putting it out. I mean, there's a couple of models whereby the whole chunk of money for a year could be then used as an investment pot.

169 00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:11.829 Paul Bourgeois: Or multiplied with another funding pot, for example, because of the order of magnitude.

170 00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:13.370 Paul Bourgeois: to derive

171 00:25:13.530 --> 00:25:29.120 Paul Bourgeois: much higher levels of investment. It's, you know, it's the old adage that it's easy to ask for lots of money when you're trying to get investment than it is for small amounts of money. The effort is the same, but quite often, if you can build a 20, 30 million pound project over a number of years.

172 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:45.160 Paul Bourgeois: ex… you know, private… the public-private investment there is usually a lot more easy to access, because it's viable. And, you know, the investors that we've been working with, have said… have said that. So, yeah, if there's anything I can help you with,

173 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:47.569 Paul Bourgeois: Definitely do that, just ping me an email.

174 00:25:47.990 --> 00:25:49.160 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Brilliant, thank you.

175 00:25:49.330 --> 00:26:00.809 Paul Bourgeois: Just to quickly touch on the other two facets, because they are important. So, we do a lot of commercial support, a lot of transformation, PFI, PPP that I mentioned before, on our commercial team, but what we do find is that

176 00:26:01.010 --> 00:26:14.570 Paul Bourgeois: team members in that one, particularly in the, sort of, the legal and, commercial accounting side, are very useful on the other sides. So, helping those local authorities and their,

177 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:20.870 Paul Bourgeois: Some of them wholly owned companies, some of their… local authority, teams.

178 00:26:21.100 --> 00:26:39.230 Paul Bourgeois: and other organizations that work, like Parish and Town Council, very well-developed community groups, for example, to bring that expertise in, because quite often, a local authority doesn't need, on a long-term basis, that expertise, and it's… it's not good value always to bring a specialist in.

179 00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:52.560 Paul Bourgeois: Or to employ somebody who then, after the piece of work's done, it's, you know, they sort of have to then look what they're doing next. We can sort of drop in, do what they need, and then leave them with the skills, leave them with…

180 00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:03.499 Paul Bourgeois: some cascade training if they need it, give them the toolkit, or some sort of analytical piece, and then they can do it themselves, and that's what we try to do, is sort of grow… grow their expertise.

181 00:27:04.330 --> 00:27:18.380 Paul Bourgeois: The place team is more, sort of, as you would expect, place-based, a lot of housing and regeneration, a lot of infrastructure. Health and wellbeing is quite an important one as well. We've done quite a lot of work with, social care.

182 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:24.779 Paul Bourgeois: A lot of mapping work, to try and beg them to understand, the…

183 00:27:25.010 --> 00:27:39.590 Paul Bourgeois: the benefits associated with, for example, well-being, and particular, social care contracts, social prescribing that is… that's been buzzing around, and when I was at the university, working for the university as well, that was very…

184 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:50.789 Paul Bourgeois: innovative at the time, and now quite a commonplace thing, so… and of course, local government reform and devolution is a major agenda item at the moment. There's a lot of local authorities having to navigate that.

185 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:57.009 Paul Bourgeois: And we are supporting that and having active discussions with them, so that they know the, sort of.

186 00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:16.739 Paul Bourgeois: where others have done it. It's not a new thing specifically. We've got a lot of combined authorities, in… in the… in England already, and it's turn… turning that experience to the people that are having to navigate it now, so it's not seen as a, you know, as a major challenge or a big worry for them.

187 00:28:17.620 --> 00:28:23.069 Paul Bourgeois: Just a couple of examples there. Prisons Building Homes is something we're doing at the moment.

188 00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:36.369 Paul Bourgeois: I think the tucker speaks for itself. But also, in Wales, we have a very… quite a high profile in Wales. About a half of our work is in Wales. We work with the Welsh Government and all of the local authorities there.

189 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:45.539 Paul Bourgeois: Sustainable Communities for Learning program there. It's trying to sort of build… build that at that grassroots community local level.

190 00:28:46.560 --> 00:29:00.209 Paul Bourgeois: And then finally, what wraps around everything is our data analysis team, probably as no surprise, they help us do a lot of, both GIS and statistical mapping and,

191 00:29:00.210 --> 00:29:08.260 Paul Bourgeois: more common now, a lot of AI-based machine learning systems, so that we can help, you know, whether you think it's

192 00:29:08.430 --> 00:29:25.660 Paul Bourgeois: on a personal level, you know, the way forward or not, you know, we have to respond to it. It's what a lot of local authorities are doing and trying, for a good reason, because it does bring some efficiencies. But what we will always say is there's a… there has to be a human element, so you can start off with an artificial,

193 00:29:25.910 --> 00:29:42.900 Paul Bourgeois: process, but it needs a human check at the end of it, and that's where we tend to help as well. But our data and analytics team are growing, we do local area energy plans, and a whole range of other waste flows, and different modellings, and a lot of financial modeling as well.

194 00:29:45.770 --> 00:30:01.520 Paul Bourgeois: So that's… that's local partnerships, so hopefully you'll get from that that we are an organization that touches lots of different points. We have to work for public sector or local authority clients. We cannot work for the private sector.

195 00:30:01.780 --> 00:30:08.730 Paul Bourgeois: That's… that's our… our mandate, and our, I feel like, our professional license to do so.

196 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:23.039 Paul Bourgeois: But for me, the partnering and collaboration is something we do for everything. So, in my short tenure so far, I've done projects with local authorities, and I've brought in

197 00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:34.999 Paul Bourgeois: other organization with a specialism, but maybe not the capacity to do something. So, where we do a piece of work, for example, I've worked for it, just recently finished a piece of work with the County Council,

198 00:30:35.030 --> 00:30:44.029 Paul Bourgeois: In the retrofit space, so looking at housing, it's just something that touches everybody. And interestingly, funded by the public health director for the county.

199 00:30:44.370 --> 00:30:46.710 Paul Bourgeois: And… and more interesting for me.

200 00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:59.459 Paul Bourgeois: is that we engaged 45 different organizations from all sectors. So there were community there, there were a lot of social and cultural and faith groups involved.

201 00:30:59.730 --> 00:31:04.499 Paul Bourgeois: The idea being that we would create and co-design

202 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:09.090 Paul Bourgeois: And co-produce a housing retrofit strategy that made sure it referenced

203 00:31:09.310 --> 00:31:17.050 Paul Bourgeois: The technical and practical elements, the skills and training elements, the engagement and the,

204 00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:20.479 Paul Bourgeois: If you like, the traditional communication side.

205 00:31:20.670 --> 00:31:31.529 Paul Bourgeois: But also understanding finance and funding, two def- two very different things on a spectrum. So I think what I've tried to show here is that actually, by working with

206 00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:40.070 Paul Bourgeois: Local groups, community groups, parish and town councils, SMEs in a specific area, location-based organizations.

207 00:31:40.530 --> 00:31:43.179 Paul Bourgeois: It helps local authorities in the public sector

208 00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:47.369 Paul Bourgeois: Get a far deeper trust and legitimacy to what they're doing.

209 00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:57.489 Paul Bourgeois: It definitely stimulates community empowerment. I found it to be far more effective in targeting using that group of 45 and their reach across that county.

210 00:31:57.610 --> 00:32:01.460 Paul Bourgeois: Was… was quite… impactful.

211 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:09.109 Paul Bourgeois: Certainly, when you engage a lot more local people, you get that lived experience, clearly, and that deeper understanding.

212 00:32:09.210 --> 00:32:12.870 Paul Bourgeois: Of those local needs, because there are similarities across

213 00:32:13.120 --> 00:32:29.629 Paul Bourgeois: across England and the UK, but there are obviously clear differences. I think you get better decision-making, particularly where a local authority works with its local community organisations, and clearly you get this social inclusion and cohesion as a result.

214 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:42.260 Paul Bourgeois: clearly you get shared… shared learning, and most of the time you get innovation. Some, you know, colleagues of mine, like Penny Poyser in Nottingham, are doing some really interesting stuff around redevelopment in Nottingham, for example.

215 00:32:42.470 --> 00:32:46.529 Paul Bourgeois: But for me, it's that informed, practical.

216 00:32:47.430 --> 00:33:01.629 Paul Bourgeois: and culturally appropriate solutions. So, yeah, a lot of these are the sort of buzzwords, co-design and co-production, but, you know, we know that that's the way things should be done. You get the ownership and the solutions, and I think from a local authority perspective.

217 00:33:01.790 --> 00:33:13.000 Paul Bourgeois: The adaptive governance that they benefit from that sort of local to district, borough, city, county, is really important for them.

218 00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:22.199 Paul Bourgeois: And I don't think this comes as any surprise or, you know, to any of you in terms of the work that, I guess, that you're doing.

219 00:33:22.330 --> 00:33:23.830 Paul Bourgeois: But…

220 00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:43.800 Paul Bourgeois: it becomes a much richer and far more informed, and quite often accelerated process when you partner and collaborate. And, you know, we do it all the time. We've got actually something in the region of 600 associates. Now, those aren't people that are just people on the books. Those are people that we've actually done work with. So we bring an associate on when

221 00:33:43.820 --> 00:33:49.849 Paul Bourgeois: We don't have a specific expertise, or… or sometimes it can be capacity.

222 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:56.000 Paul Bourgeois: Because somebody says, we need this done, and we need it doing before the end of the financial year, and it's the 1st of March, which is quite common.

223 00:33:56.060 --> 00:34:06.860 Paul Bourgeois: So, we'll bring… we'll bring… we've got 600 people, those have all done a project with us, or more than one project. If there is an area that we grow, we need to move into.

224 00:34:07.290 --> 00:34:09.619 Paul Bourgeois: And we have a specific business lead.

225 00:34:09.750 --> 00:34:14.239 Paul Bourgeois: And a client. We will bring new people in on that basis.

226 00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:16.280 Paul Bourgeois: So, yeah.

227 00:34:16.409 --> 00:34:20.230 Paul Bourgeois: Working, working, with others is key.

228 00:34:21.980 --> 00:34:41.500 Paul Bourgeois: In the, email that Brian put out to you, I just suggested that I'd talk about, my personal perspective on, and I called it LA21 to net zero, LA21 being Local Agenda 21, and this is effectively my, you know, potted history,

229 00:34:41.750 --> 00:34:48.009 Paul Bourgeois: not, you know, I can go on for many slides along with the detail, but I thought I'd pick up a few key points that, for me.

230 00:34:49.420 --> 00:35:04.180 Paul Bourgeois: milestones is probably a good explanation or description of what I've seen over time. So I started my career as a local Agenda 21 officer, doing some of the very first recycling schemes in an Nottinghamshire local authority.

231 00:35:04.790 --> 00:35:21.389 Paul Bourgeois: LA-21 came out of, I'm sure you're aware, the Rio de Janeiro Earth Summit in 1992, June of 1992, where they said two-thirds of activities needed to happen at a local level. So that was straight away pushed to local authorities, and that's my first local authority job.

232 00:35:22.730 --> 00:35:31.299 Paul Bourgeois: And I have to say, you know, there was a lot of goodwill and a lot of individuals at local level wanting to do things.

233 00:35:31.450 --> 00:35:39.240 Paul Bourgeois: I then, moved more into the, sort of, home energy conservation piece.

234 00:35:39.660 --> 00:35:44.270 Paul Bourgeois: Heca, as it was called, around 1995, 97.

235 00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:53.180 Paul Bourgeois: where… People were starting to realize, and there was quite a bit of grants available… money available,

236 00:35:54.210 --> 00:36:06.949 Paul Bourgeois: to help them in their homes. And that's… we still need that to today, but the reason I picked this up is because it was… it was the… you know, I used to drive a 27-foot-long energy bus all around Norfolk, going to every single fate.

237 00:36:07.160 --> 00:36:09.099 Paul Bourgeois: Event possible.

238 00:36:09.230 --> 00:36:10.820 Paul Bourgeois: To talk to people about.

239 00:36:11.100 --> 00:36:25.399 Paul Bourgeois: home energy, about environmental issues, and it gained a lot of interest. We were always invited, I mean, most of my weekends from, sort of, April, May through to September were out and about at various things.

240 00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:32.369 Paul Bourgeois: Going to schools, and there was definitely a… a feeling that that message was going from school back to home.

241 00:36:34.540 --> 00:36:41.540 Paul Bourgeois: Roll forward to, sort of, 2010, we had feed-in tariff 2011, the first plug-in car grant schemes from government.

242 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:46.120 Paul Bourgeois: And I think what that also did is that started to, sort of.

243 00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:53.900 Paul Bourgeois: Indicate to the supply chain, as well as individuals, And homeowners, and small businesses.

244 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:58.240 Paul Bourgeois: Not in the supply chain, but just small businesses. The need for that.

245 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:05.969 Paul Bourgeois: movement into things that help them to become more resilient, particularly around the energy side, and there was a financial incentive.

246 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:17.289 Paul Bourgeois: And then, 2014 World Bank UN Climate Conference turned net zero. Some academics would say that that was floating around about a year before.

247 00:37:17.410 --> 00:37:19.880 Paul Bourgeois: No.

248 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:35.409 Paul Bourgeois: For me, personally, net zero on its own doesn't mean anything. People will talk about net zero economics, what does that mean? You know, for me, it's about net zero carbon, and as a dean of an environmental faculty of one of the eminent

249 00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:41.979 Paul Bourgeois: Climate change local, universities said, you know, we haven't been net zero for over a thousand years.

250 00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:49.039 Paul Bourgeois: But I think it was more about the ambition than it was the, the… the intention.

251 00:37:49.410 --> 00:37:59.169 Paul Bourgeois: Things like the 2017 government's decarbonisation strategy and the tripling by 2019 of offshore wind farms for generation.

252 00:37:59.830 --> 00:38:01.669 Paul Bourgeois: Then we had COVID.

253 00:38:01.850 --> 00:38:11.220 Paul Bourgeois: and Brexit over… within a 12-month period. But we did have COP26 in Glasgow, and I think that pushed a lot of things up the agenda. It really…

254 00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:18.289 Paul Bourgeois: propelled the UK, particularly, we had one of the very first UN centres of Excellence that we have.

255 00:38:18.450 --> 00:38:22.470 Paul Bourgeois: In the world, but based in the UK for… for buildings.

256 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:28.759 Paul Bourgeois: And the reason I sort of plotted all this out is because, obviously, we find ourselves today

257 00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:31.800 Paul Bourgeois: Where the net zero term.

258 00:38:31.990 --> 00:38:42.570 Paul Bourgeois: is very divisive for a lot of people. Rightly and wrongly, it is. People have association with negative economic impacts, a lack of political will.

259 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:52.730 Paul Bourgeois: Lowering public confidence, and unfortunately, more recently, sort of a populist exploitation of the term for something that only rich people can afford.

260 00:38:53.540 --> 00:38:54.769 Paul Bourgeois: or invest in.

261 00:38:55.210 --> 00:39:00.960 Paul Bourgeois: And I think… There's a lot of…

262 00:39:01.100 --> 00:39:06.040 Paul Bourgeois: organizations out there that are keen to see Net Zero go.

263 00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:10.399 Paul Bourgeois: Not just as a term, but with all the things that are good that go with it.

264 00:39:11.010 --> 00:39:17.290 Paul Bourgeois: And for me, the politics and the language is why we need to reframe it.

265 00:39:17.610 --> 00:39:23.579 Paul Bourgeois: Not… and I've talked to people in local authorities, I've talked to people, doing other…

266 00:39:23.770 --> 00:39:25.950 Paul Bourgeois: In the NHS, for example.

267 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:30.619 Paul Bourgeois: We do have now 6 political parties vying for control.

268 00:39:30.990 --> 00:39:34.789 Paul Bourgeois: With very, very different,

269 00:39:35.210 --> 00:39:46.849 Paul Bourgeois: interpretations of where we need to be. And for me, what I'm starting to see is that although I'm in a cli… my team arm is towards climate response, I don't want to see that go.

270 00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:54.490 Paul Bourgeois: But I do think in the… in the sort of public arena, net zero climate And carbon are…

271 00:39:54.630 --> 00:40:01.900 Paul Bourgeois: Terms which are seen as extreme in one form or the other, and… I guess, if you asked.

272 00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:14.030 Paul Bourgeois: if you did a Mori poll, you might find a third of people are… think it's correct, a third of people that don't, and a third that's sitting on the fence. So, what I'm trying to suggest here in this,

273 00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.810 Paul Bourgeois: Infographic, is that

274 00:40:17.740 --> 00:40:29.849 Paul Bourgeois: trying to reduce the reliance on some of those politically and now emotive words. You know, I try to think about well-being, resilience, you know.

275 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:35.800 Paul Bourgeois: sustainable economic development, for example, you know, words that don't mean everything to everybody, but are not

276 00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:49.889 Paul Bourgeois: can't be anchored in a retrofit and housing, for example. Everybody lives in a house, most… well, not everybody, unfortunately. The vast majority, so it's something that touches everybody, and if a local authority wants to do some work in retrofit, it's not contentious.

277 00:40:50.080 --> 00:40:58.219 Paul Bourgeois: Because it's not attached to climate. It's about keeping people warm, low cost. So it's about focusing on what matters to everybody.

278 00:40:58.700 --> 00:41:00.649 Paul Bourgeois: And for a local authority.

279 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:13.249 Paul Bourgeois: and where organizations they work for, looking at where the main consensus is, where people need to spend. That actually underpins this net zero, from my perspective, and climate.

280 00:41:13.700 --> 00:41:16.209 Paul Bourgeois: Narrative that we still need.

281 00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:23.769 Paul Bourgeois: But it's not necessarily at the moment. I think we'll see that change, that what people want to hang it on.

282 00:41:24.690 --> 00:41:33.420 Paul Bourgeois: Just as an example, climate and environmental leadership is the term that's now being more used in local authorities, and DEFRA, and other government departments.

283 00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:42.790 Paul Bourgeois: Because we do not… you know, I think it's undeniable for the majority that the climate is changing, whether they think it's to do with climate change, human impacts, etc.

284 00:41:42.970 --> 00:41:56.090 Paul Bourgeois: But the climate is changing. It's becoming more extreme, it's becoming more variable, and that we do need some form of leadership that responds in that, whether that's coastal erosion, or flooding inland, or whatever it might be.

285 00:41:56.760 --> 00:42:02.000 Paul Bourgeois: So I think… the whole neuroscience around Net Zero.

286 00:42:02.410 --> 00:42:08.200 Paul Bourgeois: And any organization involved in trying to do public good in that space.

287 00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:18.680 Paul Bourgeois: Regrettedly, for the time being, I think we're going to have to start to dumb down some of the net zero carbon and climate change type, references.

288 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:26.770 Paul Bourgeois: So, in terms of, sort of, summing up, for me, it's not the end of net zero.

289 00:42:27.090 --> 00:42:40.959 Paul Bourgeois: Climate mitigation, adaptation, as I said, resilience and wellbeing will be priorities for many. There are local authorities out there who aren't supported by their political, masters now, because there's been a change.

290 00:42:41.240 --> 00:42:43.370 Paul Bourgeois: But are still doing good things.

291 00:42:43.750 --> 00:42:46.509 Paul Bourgeois: And still need to be supported to do good things.

292 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:57.029 Paul Bourgeois: Local authorities are going to be challenged, and there's a lot of change happening out there, not just if they're in our local government reorganisation or a devolved area.

293 00:42:57.200 --> 00:43:06.459 Paul Bourgeois: And there still will always be need for grassroots action, working with smaller groups at a local level.

294 00:43:06.700 --> 00:43:13.059 Paul Bourgeois: to support the work they're doing, and to pilot, and to innovate in that space, and I've seen it across the country in many ways.

295 00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:29.739 Paul Bourgeois: I think the communities and third sectors, I'm hoping, will grow. I mean, I've been involved in some circular economy projects in the last three years, where we've specifically supported the third sector and charities and communities to

296 00:43:29.980 --> 00:43:30.800 Paul Bourgeois: Help.

297 00:43:31.100 --> 00:43:40.220 Paul Bourgeois: local authorities innovate in that space with those play space endeavours or solutions. So I think there's always going to be a space there.

298 00:43:40.700 --> 00:43:46.870 Paul Bourgeois: And in terms of the narrative, I think it's the metrics that you want to put, you know, so you've probably heard of

299 00:43:47.400 --> 00:44:04.719 Paul Bourgeois: natural capital, human capital, social capital, environmental, financial, physical, cultural, intellectual, and experiential capital as well. You know, getting people to try things that they've never done before. And that's what we've always, you know, certainly what I've been doing in the last 30 years with any of the sort of community-based projects.

300 00:44:04.870 --> 00:44:07.540 Paul Bourgeois: whether that's been Norfolk, or…

301 00:44:07.910 --> 00:44:15.900 Paul Bourgeois: down on the South Coast, or in Nottinghamshire, or in any of the other areas that I've specifically worked in, but many of my colleagues have worked all over the country doing this.

302 00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:20.340 Paul Bourgeois: So that's my… my ramble.

303 00:44:20.490 --> 00:44:25.920 Paul Bourgeois: if you like, about, you know, where I see things changing.

304 00:44:26.170 --> 00:44:33.430 Paul Bourgeois: I think the term, I would say, is that there's always a… there's always a renaissance, you know, we… we go in peaks and troughs with these sorts of things.

305 00:44:33.460 --> 00:44:47.020 Paul Bourgeois: hopefully they never go away, and there'll always be an opportunity to reflect on what happened to 5, 20 years ago, and to take that learning and evolve it even further, and I think

306 00:44:47.130 --> 00:44:51.459 Paul Bourgeois: There's a big opportunity still to do that, and people still need

307 00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:57.450 Paul Bourgeois: Activity in this space, and hopefully, you know, local authorities can continue to work with

308 00:44:57.710 --> 00:45:02.049 Paul Bourgeois: Communities, community groups, and those local organisations.

309 00:45:02.540 --> 00:45:06.200 Paul Bourgeois: I think I probably overstayed my time welcome.

310 00:45:06.600 --> 00:45:11.360 Paul Bourgeois: And… So, I'll stop there and stop sharing, if that's all right?

311 00:45:12.830 --> 00:45:23.339 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Paul, thank you very much. That was very fascinating, and leads to a whole bunch of questions, which I'm sure other people will pitch in on, but the one I have is,

312 00:45:23.910 --> 00:45:31.740 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You see yourself as a channel of communication between, sort of, the coalface, if you will, and upper government?

313 00:45:33.140 --> 00:45:37.329 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we… we get asked, by…

314 00:45:37.990 --> 00:45:50.329 Paul Bourgeois: my government departments. Sometimes we see a government department should be asking a question, and we can help them define the question, and then help them with some of the… with some of the

315 00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:53.100 Paul Bourgeois: Discovery phase, if you like.

316 00:45:53.430 --> 00:46:06.319 Paul Bourgeois: So yeah, we… we're lucky, I guess, because we have board members who are in Treasury, and let's be honest, every government department is funded by the Treasury. So ultimately, departments are important, but the Treasury has all the money.

317 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:09.600 Paul Bourgeois: And if we can offer through…

318 00:46:09.990 --> 00:46:29.370 Paul Bourgeois: a range of public sector or local organizations a suggestion to do something differently, and that's the manifesto work we did last time, was like, is there a way to rethink this so you don't have to put more money in, you get far more impact for what you're putting together. So those thought pieces are really important, and

319 00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:35.599 Paul Bourgeois: We don't, you know, we're not always listened to, but we try to use those avenues to stimulate debate.

320 00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:49.540 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: So if I were to say that down at the coalface, the parish people will say, we're very interested in retrofit, and it appears to be one of the biggest places where you get bang for your buck.

321 00:46:49.660 --> 00:47:01.829 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: So it must be high on everyone's agenda. And then you look at government, and you say, what are the housing requirements being put out as a specification for BUILD?

322 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:11.990 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: And you discover that the current levels certainly mean that in order to meet net zero, all those houses are going to have to be retrofitted, even though they're brand new now.

323 00:47:11.990 --> 00:47:12.480 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah.

324 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:24.580 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Whose job is it, and I'm looking at local partnerships, to say… to explain why one branch of the government is operating in a completely different vacuum from the rest of them.

325 00:47:25.790 --> 00:47:44.410 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, I mean, it's a good point, and actually, we had our annual, sort of, two-day, where we try and bring as many of our 80-plus staff together to discuss, and housing… housing growth, new-build housing was a big issue, and I… I threw in a few challenges, because prior to… prior to, working for Local Partnership, I was a condom to the Passive House Trust.

326 00:47:44.750 --> 00:48:04.560 Paul Bourgeois: And I've been working, with colleagues in Scotland about the Scottish Government accepting something called deemed to Satisfy. They don't want to use the term passive house, but ultimately what we're talking about is here is a building regs equivalent, which means that those new stock don't contribute to the burden of the existing stock.

327 00:48:04.560 --> 00:48:05.540 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yeah, exactly.

328 00:48:05.540 --> 00:48:09.479 Paul Bourgeois: In parallel with that, I've been doing quite a bit with the National Retrofit Hub.

329 00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:17.810 Paul Bourgeois: who have that evidence base that says, you know, what is the… what is the minimum that we have to do so that doesn't happen? It's a current,

330 00:48:18.410 --> 00:48:31.419 Paul Bourgeois: discussion point. Well, I will say that, from colleagues, both in the organization and in other organizations I work with, the, the M, sort of minister, Miata.

331 00:48:31.560 --> 00:48:35.530 Paul Bourgeois: in charge of warm homes is acutely aware of what needs to happen.

332 00:48:35.620 --> 00:48:53.169 Paul Bourgeois: And we do know that there's a lot of houses out there, and I even throw the question out, do we need that many houses? You know, the population's not expanding. The way that we live is getting very different. You know, I've got kids that, within a couple of years, will be… probably want to get on the housing ladder.

333 00:48:53.290 --> 00:49:10.070 Paul Bourgeois: Unfortunately for them, as it's not an easy thing to do. And I don't want them to buy houses that are going to be something that needs to be retrofitted almost immediately, because either the developers don't offer them the options which are mortgageable. The… my… my,

334 00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:20.699 Paul Bourgeois: limited experience recently, but historically was far deeper, is that a lot of the mortgage companies, the lenders, the high street lenders, want to see

335 00:49:21.330 --> 00:49:29.189 Paul Bourgeois: Greater levels of standards in new build, and the opportunity to use the mortgage as a way to improve the properties that

336 00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:32.519 Paul Bourgeois: That need significant improvements.

337 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:51.060 Paul Bourgeois: it's not an answer to your question, but it is that you are right, and actually, going back to the NISP side of the nationally significant infrastructure projects and planning requirements, is that retrofit is now being potentially an opportunity there, where if a significant amount of money are to say.

338 00:49:51.190 --> 00:50:05.839 Paul Bourgeois: two or three district level, where there is the infrastructure, you know, Sizewell, for example, or an onshore wind major farm, or near to an offshore, where there is a community impact, and the money's there to give a community benefit.

339 00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:11.620 Paul Bourgeois: It seems to me that retrofit is an opportunity for that. Maybe a revolving fund.

340 00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:18.029 Paul Bourgeois: I've seen some… 0% loan funds being set up.

341 00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:28.540 Paul Bourgeois: In that… in that regard. So I think it's trying to understand how these all play together. But you're right, we do need a significant,

342 00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:36.330 Paul Bourgeois: Rethink about what constitutes a good, sustainable, long-term, fit-for-purpose, new-build property.

343 00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:41.300 Paul Bourgeois: across the UK, And that's…

344 00:50:41.590 --> 00:50:49.970 Paul Bourgeois: That's quite a tricky thing, but a lot of people are working with us at the moment. And we are working with a couple of local authorities that are looking at it.

345 00:50:51.630 --> 00:51:10.859 Paul Bourgeois: But always… it's always difficult for that first pioneer to go, do you know what, we're going to put this planning in place. There's a couple of local authorities that I know are well-placed to do that, and I'll put in some pretty strict Cambridgeshire in particular, put in some pretty strict, requirements in their policies to do with new build.

346 00:51:11.610 --> 00:51:13.499 Paul Bourgeois: But I think we need to be stronger at it.

347 00:51:13.630 --> 00:51:17.560 Paul Bourgeois: Anyway, waffled on too much. I think, couple of hands up.

348 00:51:17.560 --> 00:51:20.140 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Interesting to note, the…

349 00:51:20.140 --> 00:51:39.230 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You're talking about local districts coming up with their own rules for their own planning authorities, but how about at a national level? Are you getting any pushback from the department that is setting the minimum levels of installation? How come they aren't going for more of a passive house standard? What's their argument?

350 00:51:40.040 --> 00:51:58.890 Paul Bourgeois: The short answer is I don't know, because it's not the area that I'm specifically working at the moment from a… I mean, before I joined local partnerships, there was always this, conflict between the developer saying, if you push us too hard, we won't… we won't… we won't be delivering the housing levels you want.

351 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:07.099 Paul Bourgeois: Because they have a model that pays shareholders, and let's be honest, that's the way that the private developer sector works.

352 00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:27.049 Paul Bourgeois: What I am seeing now is a lot more local authorities and housing associations producing market housing at high standards. There's a couple that I know of that are now, in fact, one particular in my local area in Norfolk, who's actually shifted more from… away from social housing into market housing, but at a much higher standard.

353 00:52:27.370 --> 00:52:40.599 Paul Bourgeois: It's an exception rather than the rule, but I do take your point that we need to… maybe that's a question I take back to my colleague who leads on the housing side of things, who has that connection with government departments and

354 00:52:41.300 --> 00:52:48.149 Paul Bourgeois: it's got to start somewhere, so I know he works in the Manchester area, so it might be, you know, when you've got people like

355 00:52:48.270 --> 00:52:57.659 Paul Bourgeois: the Manchester Combined Authority and the leadership they've got there, maybe that… someone's got to sort of set the soil out, and to prove to government, I guess, that it is possible.

356 00:52:57.740 --> 00:53:14.410 Paul Bourgeois: But yeah, my dad said for the last 20 years, you know, why have we not put solar panels on houses as standard, and covered every piece of the roof, and given them, you know, this… you know, from a simplistic point of view, he's not wrong. And we know in other countries they can do it, so yeah, it's not an excuse.

357 00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:17.680 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Thank you, and let's move on to Tristram, if you may.

358 00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:20.860 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You're on mute, Christian.

359 00:53:25.090 --> 00:53:26.600 tristram cary: So, sorry.

360 00:53:26.910 --> 00:53:27.969 tristram cary: Can you hear me?

361 00:53:27.970 --> 00:53:28.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yeah.

362 00:53:29.020 --> 00:53:39.660 tristram cary: Thank you very much, that's really interesting. One of the challenges of the Great Collaboration is trying to identify best practice for… to help councils, parish, you know, the smaller councils.

363 00:53:39.660 --> 00:53:51.630 tristram cary: to make a climate plan, or to… to make a community solar energy plan, or whatever it is. And one of the big barriers is there's… if you're a parish, and you look for guidance, you search online for guidance.

364 00:53:51.630 --> 00:54:09.239 tristram cary: and you look at… you talk to your district council, your unitary authority, there's a mass of guidance, and it's daunting for the parish to set a basis. And so one of the things the Great Collaboration is trying to do is to identify best practice and boil these things down into a sort of single document.

365 00:54:09.240 --> 00:54:27.810 tristram cary: And I noticed when you said you make all your resources free for use, you know, you and the local partnerships are probably in a very good position to decide and say from experience what is the best, you know, what is a good model for creating those sorts of plans. Is that something that you can

366 00:54:27.810 --> 00:54:30.390 tristram cary: Do you think that's appropriate for a parish level?

367 00:54:31.270 --> 00:54:42.320 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, I mean, again, if you want to sort of set me the exam question with regard to that and email it to me, then I'll use that to talk to colleagues about what we've got, and

368 00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:46.430 Paul Bourgeois: Hopefully come up and curate some sort of,

369 00:54:46.730 --> 00:54:51.690 Paul Bourgeois: More focused set of resources that would be appropriate at the sort of parish level.

370 00:54:52.520 --> 00:54:54.289 tristram cary: I think it could be really useful.

371 00:54:54.290 --> 00:54:56.859 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Yeah, absolutely. Great question.

372 00:54:57.770 --> 00:54:58.620 tristram cary: Thank you.

373 00:54:59.010 --> 00:55:00.540 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Is there more, or are we.

374 00:55:00.540 --> 00:55:02.089 tristram cary: Hey, that's it, thank you, thank you.

375 00:55:02.380 --> 00:55:03.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Alan, please.

376 00:55:04.300 --> 00:55:12.230 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, thank you. Yes, Paul. Very interesting from my perspective, because we've got quite a lot going on in Shropshire with various bits of…

377 00:55:12.300 --> 00:55:14.550 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Movements towards devolution.

378 00:55:14.550 --> 00:55:35.100 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: clustering of parishes around towns for the purposes of service protection, all those sort of things. But what I wanted to talk to you about was something that's deep to my heart in relation to carbon literacy, training, is an impact tool, which is used by parish and town councils across the country, supported by,

379 00:55:35.100 --> 00:55:50.180 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: the center for Sustainable Energy with Exeter University, where they put together a parish-level carbon tool, whereas the one I understand that you're dealing with is actually for a local authority, is that right?

380 00:55:50.180 --> 00:55:51.870 Paul Bourgeois: It is. Correct, yeah.

381 00:55:51.870 --> 00:56:04.639 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Yeah. Is there, each time, Impact has to have the updates done to its background, they, they have to fight tooth and nail to get the support

382 00:56:04.750 --> 00:56:21.880 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: for the data to go into that database, so when it gets updated, which yours would get updated, is there not some continuity at government level with it, where you might be able to influence that they share that data without any additional cost? I'm just sowing a seed here more than anything else.

383 00:56:22.560 --> 00:56:29.389 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, I mean, it's not, again, not my area of expertise, but actually my senior director, she leads on that particular tool.

384 00:56:29.680 --> 00:56:37.479 Paul Bourgeois: And a number of the other ones. So, yeah, again, my default… my default response is, if you ping me an email with your specific

385 00:56:37.890 --> 00:56:48.719 Paul Bourgeois: sort of technical ask on that, then what I can do is I can use that to send, top and tail an email, and ask what we can do. And if it's something that needs

386 00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:54.420 Paul Bourgeois: sort of a more… sort of national…

387 00:56:55.170 --> 00:56:58.660 Paul Bourgeois: Ask of it, then… then absolutely we can do that.

388 00:56:58.890 --> 00:57:16.779 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Because from a local partnership point of view, that would be working… yeah, local authority you've got, and that's your bag, because those are the main people that you deal with. But when we're talking about doing it, which in this particular group, influencing parishes to understand what their carbon footprint is.

389 00:57:16.780 --> 00:57:24.510 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: That tool is an absolute godsend, because it gives them the line in the sand by which they've got to work, effectively.

390 00:57:24.750 --> 00:57:25.470 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: So…

391 00:57:25.470 --> 00:57:33.359 Paul Bourgeois: You need that evidence base to start from, so that everybody's using the same methodology, so I absolutely get that. But yeah,

392 00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:53.909 Paul Bourgeois: obviously without going into sort of great detail now, but if you please… if you do send me an email, I will respond to you and just make sure I fully understand the question, so that I can go and speak to others. And then if they need to talk to the LGA, or they need to talk to, another number of other organizations… I mean, Talbot literally just touched on that point. We…

393 00:57:53.910 --> 00:57:57.970 Paul Bourgeois: A friend of mine was, from Nottingham University, she

394 00:57:57.970 --> 00:58:07.350 Paul Bourgeois: She used to do all the carbon literacy for the university there, and she worked with me on one of the circularity projects. So, when… just before I left that, the university.

395 00:58:07.600 --> 00:58:14.149 Paul Bourgeois: I sort of found out a little bit more about it, and actually, in local partnerships now, we're looking at,

396 00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:26.650 Paul Bourgeois: not because we… we don't know… we know a lot about what the context of the Carbon Industry program is, but I think as… just as a demonstration that we are, you know, equivalent to knowledge

397 00:58:27.220 --> 00:58:35.880 Paul Bourgeois: with everybody else, that I think it's something that we're now looking to do internally, so I think we're going to have our own version of carbon literacy provided by,

398 00:58:36.090 --> 00:58:39.900 Paul Bourgeois: Those, and endorsed by them, so it's, you know, we can best

399 00:58:40.190 --> 00:58:49.860 Paul Bourgeois: articulate and talk in the same language that other organizations that are carbon literate officially as an organization. So it's a… it's a good point.

400 00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:55.350 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Well, if you have a chat with the Carbon Literacy Trust, they will be the people.

401 00:58:55.350 --> 00:58:55.720 Paul Bourgeois: 70s.

402 00:58:55.720 --> 00:59:08.830 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Fine, okay, because that… I mean, their background is… is… is immense, and their network is immense, which would help you as well, from your local partnership working, too.

403 00:59:09.330 --> 00:59:10.180 Paul Bourgeois: Absolutely.

404 00:59:10.420 --> 00:59:12.520 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: Okay, thanks for that, Paul.

405 00:59:12.520 --> 00:59:13.290 Paul Bourgeois: Hi, kid.

406 00:59:14.930 --> 00:59:16.520 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Here you go, Andrew.

407 00:59:16.700 --> 00:59:21.230 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Thanks very much, Graham. Thank you very much, Paul, for the very interesting.

408 00:59:21.260 --> 00:59:36.919 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: I want to briefly mention a local partnership, which seems to me, it's certainly around where I live, which is Somerset, doesn't actually exist. And that is the partnership between the people who own land.

409 00:59:37.390 --> 00:59:40.560 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And DEFRA, who provide money.

410 00:59:40.910 --> 00:59:51.059 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And a slot in the… at the coalface, who are getting quite good at setting up, nature recovery schemes.

411 00:59:51.390 --> 00:59:51.760 Paul Bourgeois: Yep.

412 00:59:51.760 --> 01:00:02.980 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: We've just got one in my parish that's just got recognized as a local nature reserve. And it's on land that is not owned by

413 01:00:02.990 --> 01:00:12.139 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: anybody… well, it is owned. It's owned by, the people who build the roads, and British get…

414 01:00:12.340 --> 01:00:15.779 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: what do they call themselves now? .

415 01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:17.570 Allan Wilson Edgmond PC Shropshire: I rose, England.

416 01:00:17.570 --> 01:00:36.800 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Highways England, is it just… is it Highways England? It's something else now, isn't it? British Highways, something like that. Anyway, we've just got a small nature reserve there, it's working. We know how to do this kind of thing, and live on the edge of the Somerset levels. There's a lot of people in, I think you call them the third sector.

417 01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:58.980 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: That really, small voluntary groups that are trying to do something, but we don't have the land, and we don't have the money, and there doesn't seem to be any mechanism for bringing those three together. It seems an uneasy relationship, and I wonder whether you've got any reflections on that.

418 01:01:01.830 --> 01:01:12.729 Paul Bourgeois: not immediately, without giving it some thought. What would you… what would you… you know, if you had a… if you had a… a genie in a bottle and you were going to rub it, what… what would… what would it look like, that solution to your question?

419 01:01:12.730 --> 01:01:28.910 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Well, we have ways of implementing environmental schemes, but farmers are not particularly interested in these around here, because it involves so much… so much… so many administrative difficulties.

420 01:01:28.910 --> 01:01:43.140 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: That instead, what happens is, that, marginal land now, since the end of the basic payment scheme, is now being plowed up by huge machines.

421 01:01:43.140 --> 01:02:02.330 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Not by the farmers themselves, but by, by people that have been commissioned to produce maize crops from in, you know, and that fast-growing ryegrass, so we've lost an awful lot of old, meadowland.

422 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:18.700 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Because it's been plowed up to the quick-growing ryegrass so that you can get a couple of hay crops or three hay crops a year, while the weather permits. And this year, the weather has permitted because the machines haven't got bogged down. We're mainly in wetlands down here.

423 01:02:18.700 --> 01:02:19.270 Paul Bourgeois: Yep.

424 01:02:19.460 --> 01:02:38.500 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And things have gone wrong since the basic payment scheme was abandoned, so that the farmers are not getting money for owning marginal land. And they're finding it very difficult to devise schemes which will attract environmental schemes.

425 01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:40.820 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And they're finding it very easy

426 01:02:40.820 --> 01:02:57.450 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: To cooperate with people who are… with local huge dairies who can hire vast tractors and so on that can cope with the kind of land that we've got, the heavy clay that we've got.

427 01:02:57.560 --> 01:03:02.019 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And there's a… you know, we're rather desperate.

428 01:03:03.540 --> 01:03:04.130 Paul Bourgeois: Okay.

429 01:03:06.370 --> 01:03:15.349 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, I mean, I don't have a lot of experience in that area. I mean, I do know that there's been… there's a few projects led by,

430 01:03:15.510 --> 01:03:22.469 Paul Bourgeois: Or a project… I think about 12 or 13 chief execs.

431 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.040 Paul Bourgeois: One being the Cornish one.

432 01:03:25.410 --> 01:03:36.050 Paul Bourgeois: They're talking to the Eden Project Soil Association and a few others about how land might… be re…

433 01:03:36.450 --> 01:03:41.870 Paul Bourgeois: purpose and brought back into Portland West, some sort of community ownership.

434 01:03:42.350 --> 01:03:45.499 Paul Bourgeois: And how that might then allow

435 01:03:46.690 --> 01:03:57.529 Paul Bourgeois: different organizations to access it. Now, whether… I don't know whether that's the sort of thing that will be of benefit from… from your perspective. Are you looking to see whether there's

436 01:03:59.130 --> 01:04:05.950 Paul Bourgeois: better access to land and or money available to do with land that you do have access to. Is that… is that the sort of…

437 01:04:06.090 --> 01:04:06.920 Paul Bourgeois: Space that you're.

438 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:08.060 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: I would like…

439 01:04:08.060 --> 01:04:29.249 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: I would like to devise some mechanism for assisting farmers to look after their marginal land rather in a rather more environmentally sound way than is now happening, and I agree, Cornwall is an interesting example, I think, where there's a lot of interesting things happening.

440 01:04:29.910 --> 01:04:42.979 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, one of my colleagues is doing a piece of work for DEFRA at the moment, so I'll… I'll replay that back to her at the moment. She's having… she's… I mean, obviously, DEFRA is many different organizations sitting under that Environment Agency, etc.

441 01:04:43.740 --> 01:04:56.820 Paul Bourgeois: And one of my other colleagues is an ex-environment agency, so he's quite useful at, sort of, understanding in that space. I do know the local government association are talking to organizations about how we

442 01:04:57.310 --> 01:05:03.410 Paul Bourgeois: Utilize land, for want of a better term, as, as sort of,

443 01:05:03.720 --> 01:05:05.500 Paul Bourgeois: carbon sinks, if you like.

444 01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:06.120 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Perfect.

445 01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:13.910 Paul Bourgeois: have it… having… having them to be used rather than for, sort of, intensive agriculture or whatever. And that includes

446 01:05:14.010 --> 01:05:16.639 Paul Bourgeois: Local authorities with very large

447 01:05:16.890 --> 01:05:31.549 Paul Bourgeois: or aggregate amounts of land around highways, so a lot, you know, a lot of verges and those sorts of things, and I know that's not specific to your question, but I do know there's all sorts of different ways that they're looking at,

448 01:05:31.890 --> 01:05:51.369 Paul Bourgeois: improving, soil… soil structures, for example, because that locks in carbon. And I know that's not answering your question, but it's an important, important area. But I'll… I'll ask, my colleague, Jo, about the work that she's doing with DEFRA, because it is a live, piece at the moment. There might be something in there that might be able to weave in.

449 01:05:51.370 --> 01:06:10.670 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: There is an example near us with DEFRA working with a number of organizations, like the RSPB particularly, and the Somerset Wildlife Trust, where they're getting together with about 100 farmers. The money will come from environmental management parts.

450 01:06:10.670 --> 01:06:11.370 Paul Bourgeois: Okay.

451 01:06:11.660 --> 01:06:31.390 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: But, you see, all that is on the Somerset levels, which is an SSSI and a Ramsar site and so on. We are not on the Somerset levels, we're off that, and so we're in the… all… all parts of the country that don't benefit from any special considerations, and it's… and so we're right at the end of the… of the…

452 01:06:31.390 --> 01:06:31.960 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah.

453 01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:37.800 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: List, you know, when it comes to allocation, when it comes to schemes that allocate money like that.

454 01:06:37.910 --> 01:06:38.790 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: And we…

455 01:06:38.790 --> 01:06:42.939 Paul Bourgeois: So assume that it's a bit more inclusive, sounds like, would be.

456 01:06:42.940 --> 01:06:43.660 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Yeah.

457 01:06:43.660 --> 01:06:52.409 Paul Bourgeois: That doesn't just coat with the margins, it's more about the others that don't fit into one of those categories, or geographical,

458 01:06:52.410 --> 01:06:53.050 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Yeah.

459 01:06:53.600 --> 01:06:55.820 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, okay. I'll have a think about that.

460 01:06:56.020 --> 01:06:57.009 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Yeah, thank you.

461 01:06:58.600 --> 01:06:59.510 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Hold on.

462 01:06:59.630 --> 01:07:08.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: been looking at your website and listening to what you've been saying today, and it doesn't mention anywhere, A, how one goes about

463 01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:14.019 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: borrowing your services or employing them, and B, whether there's any cost to doing so.

464 01:07:14.310 --> 01:07:18.170 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You do talk about returning profits to the government.

465 01:07:18.170 --> 01:07:32.440 Paul Bourgeois: So, one of the things… one of the things that our… yeah, one of the things our owners, the three organizations, is that we… we charge… we have to charge for our services because, we don't receive any funding, from those owners. They're there

466 01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:40.200 Paul Bourgeois: to… to basically purpose us in… into local authorities in the public sector, and like I said, we have done work for the… for the NHS.

467 01:07:40.330 --> 01:07:53.110 Paul Bourgeois: and it normally resides in that we, by the work that we do, then returns in a financial benefit at the end of it. So, we don't do work for free, unfortunately, but we can do work for

468 01:07:53.220 --> 01:08:01.610 Paul Bourgeois: Groups of organisations, when we do work, for example,

469 01:08:01.750 --> 01:08:12.500 Paul Bourgeois: when we do work, for example, with the LGA, so if they say, we need you to work for a group of local authorities, sometimes we'll get a small grant for that chunk of work.

470 01:08:12.670 --> 01:08:19.929 Paul Bourgeois: But that's what we're… we're sort of set up to do. Like I said, officially, we're a private organization. We're an LP.

471 01:08:19.939 --> 01:08:20.519 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Right.

472 01:08:20.819 --> 01:08:30.089 Paul Bourgeois: So that's the way that we… we have to do… we have to do the work. We often do a lot more work than we charge for, that's quite, you know, half the course.

473 01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:34.309 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: One of the, examples you gave was working with Hart District.

474 01:08:34.889 --> 01:08:37.959 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Which I'm assuming is the Hart District Council in Hampshire?

475 01:08:38.359 --> 01:08:40.279 Paul Bourgeois: Heart, da-da.

476 01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:41.059 tristram cary: You might just try.

477 01:08:41.859 --> 01:08:43.599 Paul Bourgeois: I don't think I mentioned heart.

478 01:08:43.609 --> 01:08:45.099 tristram cary: Yes, you did some one of those slides.

479 01:08:45.470 --> 01:08:46.470 tristram cary: Oh, besides.

480 01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:50.089 Paul Bourgeois: Oh, that'll be a colleague's piece of work. Apologies, that I don'.

481 01:08:50.090 --> 01:08:50.430 tristram cary: Yeah.

482 01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:51.859 Paul Bourgeois: Let me just have a quick…

483 01:08:52.219 --> 01:08:56.439 Paul Bourgeois: Let's have a look. Let me just quickly whiz back through my slides.

484 01:08:57.199 --> 01:08:58.699 Paul Bourgeois: Mmm… yeah.

485 01:08:58.700 --> 01:09:01.220 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: One of the earlier ones in the examples of the sort of work…

486 01:09:01.229 --> 01:09:01.599 Paul Bourgeois: Oh, yeah.

487 01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:02.040 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: doing.

488 01:09:03.220 --> 01:09:04.430 tristram cary: reporting boundary.

489 01:09:04.609 --> 01:09:16.109 Paul Bourgeois: Yeah, and establish a new emissions baseline. I'll have to look at when that piece of work was done, some of those… that's probably a piece of work we've done in the last 18 months, I would guess, because the slides, we tried to refresh them.

490 01:09:16.519 --> 01:09:22.909 tristram cary: Do you have to compete? Do you have to compete with the private sector when you're… for some of your work?

491 01:09:22.910 --> 01:09:25.990 Paul Bourgeois: It very much depends, so we will tender for work.

492 01:09:26.149 --> 01:09:39.999 Paul Bourgeois: And we will, whether it's a completely open tender or a three-quote tender, we have a status called TECL. So, TECL status is our owners can, ask us to do work for them.

493 01:09:40.170 --> 01:09:51.979 Paul Bourgeois: Which is procurement exempt, because that we're owned… so all the local authorities in the country, bar two, don't ask me which two, but there are two that aren't members of the local government association, are our owners.

494 01:09:52.229 --> 01:09:58.669 Paul Bourgeois: And there are benefits to that, for a local authority. One is it means that they

495 01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:04.450 Paul Bourgeois: as I mentioned before, on the 1st of March, can ask for a piece of work, get it done by the end of March, because

496 01:10:04.650 --> 01:10:11.600 Paul Bourgeois: they need to get it done by the end of the financial year, for example. We also, as I sort of alluded to, is if we do a piece of work

497 01:10:11.940 --> 01:10:21.160 Paul Bourgeois: And we do a couple of days and actually said, you know what? You know, this isn't going to take 3 weeks. We can do… we've done the work. We've gone to existing resources that we've got.

498 01:10:21.400 --> 01:10:33.710 Paul Bourgeois: we give you the answer, we just cut it and say, okay, it's two days… it's two days. We don't need to work for the next, you know, two and a half weeks and charge you accordingly. As where, if you do something under a contract.

499 01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:35.690 Paul Bourgeois: Normally.

500 01:10:35.870 --> 01:10:44.109 Paul Bourgeois: and it's normally and very rare that a local, a private company or SME would then go, oh, actually, no, you don't need to pay us the rest of the money.

501 01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:58.919 Paul Bourgeois: because they, you know, they've invested in that particular contract, for example. The other thing that it enables us to do is pivot, so quite often we'll do a piece of work, we'll spend a couple of three days doing the discovery piece, for example, and in that, we then determine that actually the

502 01:10:59.060 --> 01:11:03.190 Paul Bourgeois: The requirement that they've asked us to do the whole project on.

503 01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:21.790 Paul Bourgeois: is different, actually. There's… there's… the discovery phase is determined that what you're asking for is not actually what you need, so we then replay it back to them. And because it's not… it's not within an open tendering process, for example, they then have to vary the contract, or go out to another procurement

504 01:11:21.790 --> 01:11:28.940 Paul Bourgeois: to get somebody in, because it's a different piece of work, we can say, okay, you said you allocated this amount of work for us, or this number of days.

505 01:11:28.950 --> 01:11:32.000 Paul Bourgeois: If you would like us to, we can pivot and go straight for that.

506 01:11:32.230 --> 01:11:37.349 Paul Bourgeois: So, you don't lose any time, you don't lose any cost in terms of a re-procurement process.

507 01:11:37.760 --> 01:11:44.359 Paul Bourgeois: And that's… that's… that's the sort of basis on the way a lot of local authorities have found us.

508 01:11:44.660 --> 01:11:57.470 Paul Bourgeois: ultimately flex, and we're one of the only organizations that sit in that space, and yeah, it's not… not for everyone. Sometimes they like us to go into an open procurement, and that's fine, we'll do that. We don't always win it, either.

509 01:11:57.690 --> 01:12:10.160 Paul Bourgeois: You know, there are other organizations that have… we have a very, very experienced and, dare I say, older workforce, because we've all been working for 20, 30 years in this space.

510 01:12:10.270 --> 01:12:28.380 Paul Bourgeois: And so when, quite often, you know, another consultancy might have lots of junior people straight out of university, and that's fine, happy with that, but that will be cheaper for the local authority. It might take them longer to get to where they need to get to, and we can do it quicker, because we've got a resource base that we can pull on. But, yeah.

511 01:12:28.570 --> 01:12:36.090 Paul Bourgeois: We acknowledge and accept we're not always in that space, and that's suitable for everybody, but we're there if they're needed.

512 01:12:38.380 --> 01:12:46.990 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Well, Paul, thank you very much for what's turned out to be quite a fascinating hour. Thank you very much, and I think you've got a few people really hooked, so…

513 01:12:47.170 --> 01:12:49.370 Paul Bourgeois: Good, well, I say, if you want to collate

514 01:12:49.470 --> 01:13:01.629 Paul Bourgeois: you know, emails from everybody, or get them to email me direct. I don't mind either way, depends what you prefer to do, and I'll, I'll do my best to respond to those in a more, deeper, fuller, more…

515 01:13:01.780 --> 01:13:04.150 Paul Bourgeois: Research-based, response.

516 01:13:04.850 --> 01:13:10.450 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: Well, that's tremendous. Thank you so much, and really appreciate your time and effort. Thank you.

517 01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:12.119 Paul Bourgeois: Kifra invited me.

518 01:13:12.120 --> 01:13:16.169 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration: You're very welcome. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

519 01:13:16.450 --> 01:13:17.620 tristram cary: Thanks, bye-bye.

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Markdown copy of Paul's Presentation:

# The Great Collaboration – Banter Session  
*24 September 2025*  
*Presenter: Paul Bourgeois – Strategy Director*

## About Us
Local Partnerships acts as a key interface between local and central government, providing expert advice and practical resources alongside project and programme delivery support, enabling public services to thrive.  

- Jointly owned by the Local Government Association (LGA), Treasury and Welsh Government  
- Works solely for central government departments, the Welsh Government, councils and combined authorities  
- Supports major infrastructure delivery, climate challenges, waste efficiency, renewable energy, and placemaking initiatives

## Our Core Services
Three core business services underpin our offer:

### Climate
- Energy efficiency, waste, housing, regeneration and growth, air quality, energy, finance, infrastructure, and digital transformation  

### Commercial
- Broader commercial capability and capacity, including specialist PFI/PPP programme  

### Place
- Housing and Regeneration programme, Health and Social Care programme, Infrastructure and Local Government Reorganisation  

## Resources
Regular guidance and best practice tools include:  
- Levelling Up Funds Toolkit  
- Climate Adaptation Toolkit  
- Domestic Retrofit Handbook  
- Greenhouse Gas Accounting Tool  
- Local authority company review guidance  
- Lessons from councils’ COVID-19 rough sleeping response  
- Preparing for expiry of Private Finance Initiative contracts  

## Impact
- 248,000 tCO₂e saved via Welsh Government Energy Service  
- £47.8m secured for Peterborough Station Quarter regeneration  
- £7.4m PSDS funding secured for five local authorities  
- £423m net social value projected and 660+ affordable homes through Prisoners Building Homes  
- 580 MW of solar PV schemes supported  
- 1,368 attendees at virtual learning events  
- 39 councils engaged through LGA Grant transformation programme  
- 5,000+ downloads from Resource Hub  

## Climate Services
Core missions:
- Minimise waste and facilitate a circular economy
- Deliver renewable energy infrastructure and energy efficiency projects
- Plan for climate change by assessing local impacts and necessary changes
- Deliver strategic and practical approaches to achieve net zero

Core deliverables:
- Programme and project support
- Development of tools and guidance
- Creation of delivery vehicles
- Strategy development and delivery

### Climate Case Studies
- **Greater South-East Net Zero Hub:** Supported £7.37m PSDS round 4 applications  
- **Hart District Council:** Updated carbon reporting boundary and emissions baseline  
- **West Suffolk District Council:** Strengthened evidence for new climate policies  
- **Milton Keynes:** Led business case for city-wide heat network and secured £4.3m PSDS grant  
- **Rutland Council:** Supported NSIP planning application for 350 MW solar PV at Mallard Pass

## Commercial Services
Core missions:
- Maintain and improve services
- Generate and maximise income and manage risk
- Develop innovative ways to save money and improve outcomes
- Support with PFI/PPP and contract expiry

Core deliverables:
- End-to-end support
- Expertise across varied contracts and commercial relationships
- Growth of public sector commercial expertise
- Management of complex contracts

## Place Services
Core missions:
- Support development of successful places
- Assist housing investment and delivery
- Help commission and manage social care contracts integrated with health
- Manage and maintain physical assets
- Explore alternative local authority structures for devolution and efficiency

Core deliverables:
- Strategic place-based approach
- Multidisciplinary mix of commercial, technical, and financial skills
- Development of project pipelines
- Support for funding applications

### Commercial & Place Case Studies
- **Prisoners Building Homes:** 42 homes built, 70 prisoners upskilled, 660+ homes in pipeline across 88 sites  
- **Welsh Schools Programme:** £53m grouped primary schools scheme and £65m all-through campus delivered via WEPCo joint venture

## Data & Analytics (Cross-Unit)
Core missions:
- Provide data-driven insights across sectors
- Produce toolkits and dashboards
- Offer market intelligence visualisation
- Deliver data/geospatial and financial modelling

## Collaboration & Partnership
Why collaboration matters:
- Informed, practical, and culturally appropriate solutions
- Grassroots and community-led approaches
- Co-design, co-production, community ownership
- Improved trust, legitimacy, and decision-making
- Social inclusion, cohesion, and shared learning
- Fostering innovation

## Historical Perspective: LA21 to Net Zero
- 1992: Rio Earth Summit and Local Agenda 21
- 1995: Home Energy Conservation Act
- 2010: Feed-In Tariff / 2011: Plug-in Car Grant
- 2014: World Bank and UN Climate Conference (net zero)
- 2017: UK Government decarbonisation strategy
- 2019: Threefold net-zero developments
- 2020: COVID-19 and Brexit
- 2021: COP26 in Glasgow
- Today: Economic impacts, political will, public confidence, populist challenges

## Reframing the Narrative
- Use uncontentious terms like Net Zero, Climate, and Carbon
- Focus on consensus and what matters to everyone
- Support climate and environmental leadership across political parties

## Looking Ahead
- Climate mitigation, adaptation, resilience, and well-being will remain priorities  
- Net Zero efforts will continue despite political challenges  
- Local authorities and communities will remain key innovators and drivers of place-based action  
- The narrative will keep evolving

## Types of Capital
- Natural
- Human
- Social
- Environmental
- Financial
- Physical
- Cultural
- Intellectual
- Experiential

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