Ian reports his views and lessons learned after a couple of years with an EV, with advice, hints and tips
Last updated
00:00 - 34:39 Presentation
34:39 - 55:30 (end) Q & A
00:07:19 Cara Naden: A useful forum for all things EV Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
00:08:45 Cara Naden: And for EV charging locations, discussions about EVs EV charging stations & electric vehicles - Zapmap
00:09:04 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: some might be watching the budget
00:09:54 Cara Naden: International locations of EV charging networks https://openchargemap.org/site
00:10:51 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: I'm Jacky lawrences partner
00:10:58 Cara Naden: And some great informative films about EVs and renewable energy https://fullycharged.show/
00:13:50 Cara Naden: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66739259
00:16:14 Cara Naden: Lithium is recyclable and can perform better! https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium-ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/ 00:22:24 Cara Naden: Electric cars can tow...but depends on the size of the battery..
00:22:49 Cara Naden: https://octopusev.com/ev-hub/best-electric-cars-for-towing
00:24:31 Cara Naden: The benefit of home charging is that they are cheaper (or free if have PV panels) to charge your car but there are now more public EV charging stations now than there are petrol stations.
00:29:33 Cara Naden: There are some free networks still like some of the ZerNet ones and some of the Podpoint ones - see Zap Map and Open Charge Map links above for locations..
00:35:40 Cara Naden: In an EV, the 12-volt battery serves several important functions. First and foremost, it powers the vehicle's electrical systems when the car is not in use. This includes the central locking system, alarm, and other security features. The main powertrain batteries are generally a lot bigger from 40kWh capacity.
00:36:38 Cara Naden: 80% is for when using DC charging not AC as there was some battery maintenance concerns to reduce over stressing the battery using DC charging,
00:40:08 Cara Naden: Zappi is a good home EV charger to link to PV https://www.myenergi.com/zappi-ev-charger/
00:41:07 Cara Naden: There is now legislation that all new EV charging networks have to have contactless payments and not require a membership app or card to access..
00:46:00 Cara Naden: There is also the option of converting you current fossil fuelled car to an EV - New Electric is one example of EV coversions
00:48:41 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: Sorry if I missed a point …. but an eV over 8 years? surely it's efficiency / range would reduce but not disappear. Heard some two three years back that batteries were expected to last 12-14 years
00:48:54 Cara Naden: Reacted to "Sorry if I missed a ..." with 👍
00:53:19 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: Bought Kia Soul First Edition - summer range 280 miles 3 yrs old for £18k. Old' EV's appear to be very cheap - maybe reflecting battery age / mileage. Cheap vehicles will supply a part of the market without larger budgets - and allow people to test the water
00:57:05 Jennifer Lanham: We towed a trailer to Wales for camping in our Enyaq and it worked fine. Yes had to charge more frequently, but not an issue overall. Have also gone to the Lakes to remote areas and just had to plan where to charge.
00:58:08 Cara Naden: Also second hand EVs are good - see Drive Green if in the SW https://drive-green.co.uk/
00:58:16 Cara Naden: Reacted to "We towed a trailer t..." with 👍
00:59:13 Jennifer Lanham: Our biggest issue with our electric is that we have to change the tyres more frequently (heavier wear and tear) and our make/model has quite specific tyre requirements (which was problematic when we punctured in remote Lake district)! £££
01:02:04 Cara Naden: Yes some EVs do have heat pump heaters.. https://www.gridserve.com/2023/11/20/what-is-a-heat-pump-and-how-can-it-help-increase-electric-car-range/
01:04:19 Jennifer Lanham: Tyre issue is related to weight of vehicle and design, not my right foot :)
01:04:32 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: It'll be interesting to hear in the budget if there is any mention of road pricing - as we get more EV's the tax income is dropping like a stone.
01:05:47 Cara Naden: It may be that road tax will be based on miles driven...
01:06:17 Kirsten Newble: Thank you!
The meeting focused on electric vehicles (EVs) and their impact on the environment, with Ian presenting on the advantages, challenges, and future of EVs. Participants discussed personal experiences with EVs, including charging, range, and maintenance considerations, as well as the broader implications for the automotive industry and energy sector. The conversation also touched on related topics such as renewable energy sources, hydrogen technology, and potential future developments in EV technology and infrastructure.
Stuart to consider waiting until next year before purchasing an electric vehicle, based on Ian's advice.
Attendees to check the budget announcement for potential changes affecting electric vehicle prices and incentives.
Attendees interested in electric vehicles to review the Fully Charged website for information on new technologies and vehicle reviews.
Ian to continue monitoring and recording data on his electric vehicle's performance and costs.
Attendees to consider the potential for vehicle-to-grid charging when evaluating future electric vehicle purchases.
Attendees to be aware of the potential for increased tire wear on electric vehicles due to their heavier weight.
Electric Vehicles and Personal Experiences
Andrew welcomed everyone to the meeting and mentioned that they were waiting for their chairman to join. Jacky clarified that Jonathan would be joining instead of him. Andrew also mentioned that Graham, the chairman of the events, would be joining soon. The main topic of the meeting was about the joys of electric vehicles (EVs), which Ian was going to discuss. Stuart shared his recent decision to sell his beloved 24-year-old Audi RS4 and consider buying an electric vehicle. The team also discussed their personal experiences with injuries and the importance of exercise. The conversation ended with Andrew mentioning a useful forum for all things EV.
Electric Vehicles and Renewable Energy
In the meeting, Ian was set to share his screen for a presentation about electric vehicles (EVs) and renewable energy. Graham, the host, guided Ian through the process of sharing his screen. The meeting was initially delayed due to other participants finishing their previous calls. Andrew, who had to leave the meeting early, expressed his willingness to return later. Graham also mentioned that he was part of an assessment team for Lengthsman's assessment day. The conversation ended with Ian preparing to start his presentation on electric cars.
Climate Change and Pollution Impact
Ian discussed the impact of climate change and pollution on the environment. He highlighted the example of the Sphinx Snow Patch in Scotland, which has been melting every summer for the past few years, indicating a worrying trend. Ian also mentioned the Clean Air Act and the importance of considering the resources used in conventional motoring. He shared his personal experience of visiting a nickel mine in Canada, which was shut down due to exhaustion of resources. Ian concluded by expressing his hope that driving an electric car could contribute to reducing pollution in a small way.
Electric Vehicles and Personal Convenience
Ian discussed the future of electric vehicles, highlighting the advantages of plug-in hybrids and fully electric cars over conventional petrol and diesel cars. He noted that while public transport is an attractive option, the convenience of personal vehicles remains a strong draw. Ian also shared his personal experience of choosing an electric car, emphasizing the importance of range and cost. He presented data showing a significant increase in the sales of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles, suggesting a growing trend towards these options. However, he also pointed out that plug-in hybrids are currently more popular than pure electric vehicles.
Electric Vehicle Pros and Cons
Ian discussed the pros and cons of electric vehicles (EVs). He advised against purchasing an EV if it's too expensive, if you plan to tow a caravan, or if you can't charge at home. He emphasized the importance of planning ahead for charging and suggested using home chargers for convenience and cost-effectiveness. Ian also highlighted the need to consider the cost of home electricity and the varying rates of public charging stations. He pointed out that hybrids, which combine conventional and electric components, may have higher maintenance costs in the future. He concluded by suggesting that the motor industry is pushing hybrids as a good starting point for going electric due to the potential for future maintenance costs.
Electric Vehicles and Charging Costs
Ian discussed the transition to fully electric vehicles, noting that while there are discounts for electric cars, public charging remains expensive. He shared his personal experience with an electric car, including his data collection on charging costs and range. Ian also mentioned his use of solar panels to charge his car, which significantly reduced his running costs. He highlighted the importance of considering factors like temperature and usage of conventional electrics when assessing range. Ian also mentioned his preference for Instavault public charging due to its ease of use, despite the time it takes. He concluded by noting that new legislation is making contactless payments more accessible for electric vehicle charging networks.
Electric Car Technology and Charging
Ian discussed the decline of conventional garages due to the increasing use of electric cars and the need for charging stations. He shared his personal experience with electric cars, including a breakdown issue with the 12-volt battery. Ian advised against keeping electric cars for more than 8 years due to battery degradation. He also mentioned the possibility of converting petrol cars to electric vehicles. Graham added that hydrogen is being reserved for heat-intensive operations and electric cars are expected to become more affordable in the future. Stuart asked about upcoming changes in electric car technology, to which Ian responded that while there is ongoing research, significant changes may be hindered by the existing investment in electric vehicles.
Hydrogen's Role in Energy Generation
Stuart raised the topic of the increasing amount of naturally occurring hydrogen being found, which some big oil exploration companies are searching for. Ian suggested that this hydrogen could be used for district heating, providing heat for housing, rather than being used in cars. Cara disagreed, arguing that hydrogen is not an efficient energy generation method and is more of an energy transfer process. She also pointed out that hydrogen is not suitable for household use due to its small molecule size and the inability of existing infrastructure to contain it. Cara suggested that onshore wind and other renewable energy sources could be more efficient for generating power. The conversation ended with a mention of the potential for cheap, older EVs to supply a part of the market without larger budgets.
Electric Vehicle Advancements and Charging
Cara discussed the advancements in electric vehicle (EV) technology, including battery life and charging capabilities. She mentioned that EVs can tow and have a high torque, but their range decreases when used for heavy tasks or in cold weather. Cara also noted that there are more public charging points than gas stations and that some EVs can supply energy back to the house. She recommended the website Fully Charged for more information on EVs and renewable energy. Ian shared his experience with his EV, noting that it worked fine for towing a trailer to Wales and that he had to plan charging stops. Graham expressed his belief that new technologies will continue to emerge, making any decision today potentially outdated. Stuart asked about the charging of the 12V battery in EVs, to which Ian explained that the car decides when to charge it. Cara mentioned that there are recycling plants in Germany and France for EV batteries, and that they have a high second-life use before needing to be recycled. The group also discussed the potential for road pricing as the number of EVs increases.
Speech-to-text:
WEBVTT
1 00:02:39.910 --> 00:02:40.823 Andrew Maliphant: Welcome, everybody
2 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:43.489 Andrew Maliphant: just waiting for our chairman to join us.
3 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:49.209 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: Andrew, I'm signing in, but Jonathan will be joining and not me. I'm taking the grandkids out.
4 00:02:49.210 --> 00:02:50.860 Andrew Maliphant: Oh, right! It's half term.
5 00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:54.400 Jonathan Horsfield, Napton, Warwickshire: Yes, I'm just about to change my name. Okay.
6 00:02:54.940 --> 00:02:58.505 Andrew Maliphant: Change the names to collect, but could protect the innocent. Yes.
7 00:03:42.850 --> 00:03:43.770 Andrew Maliphant: hmm.
8 00:03:47.810 --> 00:03:48.979 Andrew Maliphant: good. Good.
9 00:03:50.210 --> 00:03:52.800 Andrew Maliphant: Graham will be with us shortly. I've just chased him up.
10 00:03:54.710 --> 00:03:55.280 Andrew Maliphant: Okay.
11 00:03:55.850 --> 00:03:59.280 Ian Graham: Graham invited me on today to chat.
12 00:03:59.570 --> 00:04:12.683 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, we're looking forward to it. Yeah, good. I've got to shoot off shortly, but Graham's Graham's had. I'm the great collaboration Chairman Graham's the chairman of these events. So I get called in when he has calendar problems.
13 00:04:13.030 --> 00:04:16.599 Andrew Maliphant: No, it's it sounded good, because I think the more
14 00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:28.019 Andrew Maliphant: the big issue around. All this at the moment is that it's the way you tell them it's getting the messages out there, and the goo can't be. Messages from people have been there and done that.
15 00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:30.830 Andrew Maliphant: And so that's that. That's quite good.
16 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:33.320 Andrew Maliphant: And we need to do some more of that. I mean.
17 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:34.350 Andrew Maliphant: it's
18 00:04:35.970 --> 00:04:39.660 Andrew Maliphant: It's a never ending story. But there we are
19 00:04:40.875 --> 00:04:42.145 Andrew Maliphant: welcome, sir.
20 00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:46.820 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Good day, good way, and I apologize for a late arrival.
21 00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:48.110 Andrew Maliphant: Ourselves. Yeah, okay.
22 00:04:48.620 --> 00:04:52.249 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I'm about to go on mute to fake a phone call.
23 00:04:52.590 --> 00:04:55.926 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, what's the old expression? Drop and give me 20. Yes.
24 00:04:56.743 --> 00:04:59.380 Andrew Maliphant: this is all being recorded, of course. So yeah.
25 00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:00.670 Andrew Maliphant: never mind.
26 00:05:06.510 --> 00:05:11.186 Andrew Maliphant: Yes, these extensions to be going since the New Year, Ian. And so we've
27 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:24.910 Andrew Maliphant: and Graham's produced them. We have some regular visitors. We have people that come in for special topics, and we never know from week to week how many audiences we're going to get. But the best thing about. Of course it is recorded, and people can much appreciate the capacity to be able to log in and
28 00:05:25.050 --> 00:05:26.989 Andrew Maliphant: and hear all about it later. So
29 00:05:28.510 --> 00:05:29.390 Andrew Maliphant: there we go.
30 00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:36.309 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Th-this is gonna be about evs.
31 00:05:36.570 --> 00:05:38.309 Andrew Maliphant: Yes, Ian's going to talk to us about.
32 00:05:38.310 --> 00:05:40.219 Ian Graham: That's what I'm going to talk about. Yes.
33 00:05:40.220 --> 00:05:40.640 Andrew Maliphant: Joins us.
34 00:05:40.640 --> 00:05:45.300 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: That's very good timing. I've just sold my beloved
35 00:05:45.610 --> 00:05:48.529 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: 24 year old. Audi, Rs. 4.
36 00:05:48.530 --> 00:05:49.299 Andrew Maliphant: Oh, nice!
37 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:51.439 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Decided to go electric.
38 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:52.460 Ian Graham: Right?
39 00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:53.990 Ian Graham: So what we bought.
40 00:05:55.400 --> 00:05:57.590 Andrew Maliphant: They bought one yet. Yet Stuart.
41 00:05:57.590 --> 00:06:01.670 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: No, no, I'm I'm trying to decide which ones to go for.
42 00:06:01.900 --> 00:06:05.780 Andrew Maliphant: Well, this is very, very pertinent to yourself, then, isn't it? Yes. Well.
43 00:06:05.780 --> 00:06:08.230 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: All the manufacturers and
44 00:06:08.450 --> 00:06:11.060 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: customers seem to care about range.
45 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:12.710 Andrew Maliphant: Right.
46 00:06:12.710 --> 00:06:17.290 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I I'm not too bothered about range as I I don't do any
47 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.180 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: long distance driving anymore.
48 00:06:20.990 --> 00:06:23.340 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: It seems a bit silly
49 00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:28.770 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: lugging around a huge amount of batteries. If you're just popping down to shops and things.
50 00:06:29.980 --> 00:06:34.749 Andrew Maliphant: You need. You need to walk as well. It's the exercise is good for us, particularly for me. I should add.
51 00:06:34.750 --> 00:06:38.039 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Yes. Yeah. Well, I go cycling most days. So.
52 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:43.250 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah. Well, I think I said, since I did my knee in Morris dancing, I think cycling is favorite for me. But anyway, there we go?
53 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:45.140 Andrew Maliphant: Yes.
54 00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:48.679 Andrew Maliphant: self-inflicted wound. Hi, Kara, yeah, indeed.
55 00:06:49.090 --> 00:06:49.670 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: All right.
56 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:50.890 Ian Graham: Oh!
57 00:06:51.220 --> 00:06:55.249 Andrew Maliphant: I did 50 years damage to my knee in 25 years, but I enjoyed every pint you know.
58 00:06:59.090 --> 00:07:03.980 Andrew Maliphant: I remember I once went into you maybe relate to this, Stuart. I went into a hospital with a
59 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:09.360 Andrew Maliphant: from a school Rugby match with a Rugby injury, and I got absolutely no sympathy at all
60 00:07:10.190 --> 00:07:12.970 Andrew Maliphant: entirely is a self inflicted wound.
61 00:07:13.180 --> 00:07:13.880 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Yes.
62 00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:18.489 Andrew Maliphant: Went back the next year with a similar imagery, got the same treatment. But never mind different nurse. Same view of the world.
63 00:07:19.100 --> 00:07:20.659 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: What was the injury?
64 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:27.689 Andrew Maliphant: Oh, well, one of it was 2 figures in my left hand. The 3rd one was a broken base of the left thumb.
65 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:28.400 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: No.
66 00:07:28.400 --> 00:07:34.423 Andrew Maliphant: Basically, yeah. Scrubs of blokes fell on top of me is what was what it happens. What happened? Yeah.
67 00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:36.969 Andrew Maliphant: don't do it, Kara. Don't do it.
68 00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:46.539 Ian Graham: So so that we can start reasonably, smoothly, since I'll have to share my screen. And the last time I used Zoom was during lockdown, which is now years ago, thankfully.
69 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:47.200 Andrew Maliphant: Indeed. Yeah.
70 00:07:47.708 --> 00:07:49.500 Ian Graham: Did I just click on share.
71 00:07:50.628 --> 00:07:57.120 Graham Stoddart-Stones: yes, it's a 2 stage movement. Ian, you click on share. And then it says, What do you want to share?
72 00:07:57.550 --> 00:07:59.041 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You can select degree the
73 00:07:59.340 --> 00:07:59.860 Ian Graham: And.
74 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:01.159 Graham Stoddart-Stones: The presentation you got.
75 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:02.000 Ian Graham: Open, and then there's a.
76 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.500 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Another share. Button down the bottom right to click on
77 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:12.210 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Kara. Nice to see you've already started contributing to our chat links. Thank you very much.
78 00:08:13.610 --> 00:08:17.909 Graham Stoddart-Stones: It's looking good Ian, looking good.
79 00:08:21.690 --> 00:08:22.370 Ian Graham: Good.
80 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:30.010 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You're in good shape. So in theory, we should be getting another 2 or 3 people, if you like to give them another couple of minutes.
81 00:08:30.010 --> 00:08:30.680 Ian Graham: Yeah, it's good.
82 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:39.779 Graham Stoddart-Stones: We often have to sort of wait about 5 min, just to make sure that everyone's finished their previous calls and got rid of their previous meetings.
83 00:08:40.370 --> 00:08:43.100 Ian Graham: So they're like you, Graham. They're always late, is what you're telling me.
84 00:08:43.816 --> 00:08:50.043 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I'm not sure that this is the Forum. I would have liked you to have said that.
85 00:08:50.410 --> 00:08:54.201 Andrew Maliphant: This is being recorded.
86 00:08:55.150 --> 00:08:58.449 Ian Graham: So many more important things to do is the point I'm trying to make.
87 00:08:59.144 --> 00:09:01.809 Graham Stoddart-Stones: That was sweet, but too late.
88 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:05.330 Graham Stoddart-Stones: yeah.
89 00:09:05.510 --> 00:09:14.699 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Now I was telling Andrew earlier that this morning was Linksman's assessment day, and I was on the assessment team.
90 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:15.460 Ian Graham: All right. Yeah.
91 00:09:15.460 --> 00:09:20.009 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And we had 3 to get through before 12, and then
92 00:09:20.170 --> 00:09:25.890 Graham Stoddart-Stones: there was some persistent caller who kept insisting on calling during the sessions, and I had to eventually.
93 00:09:25.890 --> 00:09:27.529 Cathy Wynne: I've got the headphones on.
94 00:09:28.505 --> 00:09:29.390 Cathy Wynne: Know
95 00:09:29.670 --> 00:09:33.130 Cathy Wynne: it's not on. I've turned the auto off.
96 00:09:33.170 --> 00:09:35.039 Cathy Wynne: but particularly for tonight.
97 00:09:36.260 --> 00:09:38.149 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I just muted Kathy.
98 00:09:39.970 --> 00:09:40.640 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Alright!
99 00:09:43.010 --> 00:09:46.656 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah. Some people may indeed be watching the budget. I've declined
100 00:09:47.568 --> 00:09:48.810 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You know what I mean?
101 00:09:48.810 --> 00:09:50.990 Andrew Maliphant: I I can get my entertainment other ways. Yeah.
102 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:54.219 Ian Graham: There's only so much bad news you can take at once.
103 00:09:54.220 --> 00:10:07.019 Andrew Maliphant: Well, that's very, very stuff, but hopefully drop back in in a while, but hope it all goes very well.
104 00:10:07.520 --> 00:10:10.160 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Thank you very much for being here to start with.
105 00:10:10.160 --> 00:10:11.180 Andrew Maliphant: Indeed.
106 00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:15.829 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So. Ian, if you you mind, we'll give another couple of minutes to people.
107 00:10:15.830 --> 00:10:17.889 Ian Graham: Yeah, sure. Sure. When you want me to.
108 00:10:17.890 --> 00:10:26.779 Graham Stoddart-Stones: In the meantime, let me say hello to everybody, and hadn't had a chance yet to talk to Jonathan or Kirsten or
109 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:29.890 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Kathy.
110 00:10:32.060 --> 00:10:33.119 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But welcome.
111 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.990 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Okay, here's 1 of the later bodies.
112 00:10:59.350 --> 00:11:00.860 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Afternoon Tristram.
113 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:01.870 tristram cary: Doesn't own.
114 00:11:04.130 --> 00:11:08.680 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You're the trigger point for Ian to get started. So.
115 00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:09.480 tristram cary: I'm good.
116 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:17.550 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Ian. Normally, I invite the people who are speaking to introduce themselves and just say why, they're talking about what they're talking.
117 00:11:17.690 --> 00:11:20.800 Graham Stoddart-Stones: and then go straight on in.
118 00:11:20.890 --> 00:11:23.009 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Okay? So it's all yours.
119 00:11:23.010 --> 00:11:25.129 Ian Graham: Yeah, right? I'm Ian Graham.
120 00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:28.040 Ian Graham: Why am I here? Because
121 00:11:28.421 --> 00:11:31.490 Ian Graham: run men in sheds on the Isle of Wight.
122 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:38.870 Ian Graham: and, as you probably know. Graham is also on the Isle of Wight, and he's a member of the the group there, and we take time about
123 00:11:39.220 --> 00:11:45.250 Ian Graham: over a long period of chatting about things, and I pulled together something on electric cars.
124 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:53.980 Ian Graham: and afterwards Graham said, Oh, yes, I've I've got this group that meets on a Wednesday once a month. Would you mind giving that presentation to them?
125 00:11:54.630 --> 00:11:59.299 Ian Graham: So, using my technical skills in it, I spent my whole life working in it.
126 00:11:59.550 --> 00:12:03.019 Ian Graham: I managed to delete the whole presentation without saving it.
127 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:04.510 tristram cary: Cool, huh?
128 00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:12.100 Ian Graham: I had to start again. So Graham hasn't seen this presentation before, although he may have told you that he has.
129 00:12:13.100 --> 00:12:15.350 Ian Graham: So so that's me, let's say.
130 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:18.210 Ian Graham: get straight on with it. So
131 00:12:18.830 --> 00:12:21.500 Ian Graham: why even think about an electric car?
132 00:12:22.130 --> 00:12:23.319 Ian Graham: Well, in my
133 00:12:23.410 --> 00:12:25.590 Ian Graham: opinion, probably claim it
134 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:30.640 Ian Graham: is is the biggest example, and also pollution on the climate.
135 00:12:30.900 --> 00:12:41.119 Ian Graham: You read in the press all these things about climate change, etc. But I think one of the more interesting ones was the Sphinx snow patch. I don't know if any of you have heard about that.
136 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:48.440 Ian Graham: but up in Scotland there's a little patch of snow that people noticed had never disappeared over the summer.
137 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:49.980 Ian Graham: and
138 00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:54.789 Ian Graham: it needs a certain amount of snowfall and obviously summer temperatures
139 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.290 Ian Graham: drive. How small it got
140 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:07.310 Ian Graham: in 200 years of recording this, it never fully melted until 1933, and that was reported in the Times that it melted completely
141 00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:09.399 Ian Graham: and then vanished again.
142 00:13:09.710 --> 00:13:19.979 Ian Graham: In 1959, 96, 2,003, 2,006, 2,01718, 2021, 2223 and 24.
143 00:13:20.430 --> 00:13:22.809 Ian Graham: I don't think I need to graph that out.
144 00:13:23.190 --> 00:13:30.919 Ian Graham: to show you that over the last few years the number of times it's disappeared has been well every single year for the past 5 years
145 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:34.299 Ian Graham: when I was back 200 years ago, up to
146 00:13:34.370 --> 00:13:37.559 Ian Graham: sort of a hundred years ago, it hadn't gone at all.
147 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:50.850 Ian Graham: So that's that's 1 of the reasons we have climate change. So I'm hoping that by driving an electric car I'm helping to reduce that in a very small way.
148 00:13:51.300 --> 00:13:53.020 Ian Graham: The other thing is pollution.
149 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.310 Ian Graham: I don't know what age the general audience is here, but
150 00:13:58.150 --> 00:14:01.659 Ian Graham: some of you will remember back in the fifties
151 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:03.940 Ian Graham: bundling call resulted in
152 00:14:04.090 --> 00:14:10.050 Ian Graham: a huge amount of pollution, especially smog in London, and so on, and that resulted in the Clean air act.
153 00:14:11.370 --> 00:14:17.179 Ian Graham: but with carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxide pollution is sort of invisible.
154 00:14:17.210 --> 00:14:21.050 Ian Graham: so we seem to largely ignore it, which is a bit strange to me.
155 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:35.549 Ian Graham: The next thing is in terms of pollution. The world's resources haven't really been considered for about 100 years of conventional motoring and producing cars, digging mines, knocking down mountains whatever.
156 00:14:35.790 --> 00:14:43.549 Ian Graham: Now, suddenly, it's incredibly important. So all the press is full of all these things about lithium. There's this absolute paranoia about how much lithium there is.
157 00:14:46.050 --> 00:14:47.080 Ian Graham: I
158 00:14:47.420 --> 00:14:53.669 Ian Graham: started my before I'd actually started working. I spent 2 years in Canada in Manitoba.
159 00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:57.220 Ian Graham: and went up to the north of Manitoba on a
160 00:14:58.190 --> 00:14:59.829 Ian Graham: exploratory trip
161 00:15:00.330 --> 00:15:06.160 Ian Graham: and went down a mine there. Now, at that time there were 15 mines in Northern Manitoba.
162 00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:07.860 Ian Graham: and
163 00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:11.539 Ian Graham: spoke to the people there. It was a very fascinating trip.
164 00:15:11.810 --> 00:15:16.060 Ian Graham: and most of them were looking for nickel. So these 15 mines were
165 00:15:16.410 --> 00:15:20.100 Ian Graham: mining nickel, but they also gather things copper, tin, zinc.
166 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:21.500 Ian Graham: oh, as well.
167 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.899 Ian Graham: and they said, Well, what's all this nickel? For
168 00:15:25.180 --> 00:15:29.509 Ian Graham: it was almost entirely going to the Us. Car industry
169 00:15:29.780 --> 00:15:38.510 Ian Graham: to produce chrome bumpers, chrome headlights, all these flashy things that people had in cars in the sixties and seventies, and so on.
170 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:46.320 Ian Graham: I read in the paper 2 or 3 months ago. The last mine in Northern Manitoba is about to shut.
171 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:48.679 Ian Graham: They've exhausted all the nickel.
172 00:15:49.330 --> 00:15:56.489 Ian Graham: Now you don't ever hear about these things. But suddenly, as I say, with lithium, there's an enormous fuss about it.
173 00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:57.360 Ian Graham: So
174 00:15:58.050 --> 00:15:59.410 Ian Graham: something to think about.
175 00:16:02.180 --> 00:16:07.460 Ian Graham: The other thing is petrol. Diesel and non-plug-in hybrid cars are not 0 emissions.
176 00:16:07.650 --> 00:16:09.970 Ian Graham: only fully electric ones are
177 00:16:10.190 --> 00:16:11.650 Ian Graham: at the point of use
178 00:16:12.810 --> 00:16:19.290 Ian Graham: and terminology that the car manufacturers have come out with. To talk about the different types is quite
179 00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:22.370 Ian Graham: annoying, like mild hybrids and things like that.
180 00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:31.200 Ian Graham: I believe it's in the carmaker's interest to sell hybrids and then to sell the electric. They effectively get 2 sales over a period rather than one.
181 00:16:32.890 --> 00:16:37.180 Ian Graham: If you're thinking about going away from conventional cars, though what about hydrogen?
182 00:16:37.510 --> 00:16:39.080 Ian Graham: Well, hydrogen is quite
183 00:16:39.430 --> 00:16:40.610 Ian Graham: unsafe
184 00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:42.889 Ian Graham: if it explodes obviously.
185 00:16:43.410 --> 00:16:44.830 Ian Graham: And
186 00:16:45.140 --> 00:16:50.810 Ian Graham: although there are some experiments going on there, it is so far behind.
187 00:16:50.930 --> 00:16:53.169 Ian Graham: What's happened in electric cars
188 00:16:53.640 --> 00:17:02.239 Ian Graham: that the investment necessary to get a large number of people driving hydrogen vehicles, I think, is extremely unlikely to happen.
189 00:17:03.092 --> 00:17:06.619 Ian Graham: There might be niche markets there, but not for
190 00:17:06.770 --> 00:17:08.090 Ian Graham: the mass market.
191 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:18.670 Ian Graham: And what about public transport? Well, my whole lifetime? They've had various efforts to get people to use more public transport. Some have been more successful than others.
192 00:17:18.780 --> 00:17:21.169 Ian Graham: but the reality is that convenience
193 00:17:21.609 --> 00:17:28.429 Ian Graham: of of having your own ability to go where and when you want is just too attractive for people.
194 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:32.000 Ian Graham: so I can't see that cars are going to disappear
195 00:17:32.110 --> 00:17:34.750 Ian Graham: instead of moving ahead with them.
196 00:17:35.780 --> 00:17:45.110 Ian Graham: So let's look you, you'll probably all be familiar with this. There's lots of different types, as I said, but basically let's split them into 4. So you've got conventional cars. So
197 00:17:45.651 --> 00:17:49.069 Ian Graham: you know, that's your your diesel and your petrol ones.
198 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:56.680 Ian Graham: They consume the most fuel. Obviously they have significant emissions, and there's a million one examples.
199 00:17:57.370 --> 00:17:58.600 Ian Graham: hybrids
200 00:18:00.550 --> 00:18:08.279 Ian Graham: slightly less fuel. It depends obviously on where you go, and you know how far you go and how often you use it, etc. Etc.
201 00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:23.449 Ian Graham: But they include batteries now as well as having fuel so potentially, you could probably have with the right type of hybrid 0 emissions if, if, say, you had a range of 50 miles, and you never did more than 50 miles before recharging.
202 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:26.299 Ian Graham: You get plug-in hybrids.
203 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:29.319 Ian Graham: So a hybrid that
204 00:18:29.580 --> 00:18:37.369 Ian Graham: is a plug in hybrid is far better than one that runs straight off the engine. So if you're if you're just burning petrol all the time
205 00:18:37.540 --> 00:18:40.290 Ian Graham: to charge a battery to run the car.
206 00:18:40.470 --> 00:18:45.789 Ian Graham: That that, to me seems almost crazy. But there are an awful lot of examples of these around.
207 00:18:45.830 --> 00:18:49.269 Ian Graham: whereas a plugin hybrid you've got the chance of actually running without
208 00:18:49.290 --> 00:18:50.690 Ian Graham: consuming fuel.
209 00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:53.610 Ian Graham: And then you have the all electric vehicles.
210 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.059 Ian Graham: Probably Nissan Leaf and Tesla models are the most
211 00:18:57.270 --> 00:18:59.579 Ian Graham: obvious examples of these.
212 00:19:01.530 --> 00:19:02.500 Ian Graham: so
213 00:19:05.810 --> 00:19:09.510 Ian Graham: only fully electric ones are truly 0 emission.
214 00:19:11.620 --> 00:19:13.180 Ian Graham: And in terms of
215 00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:19.980 Ian Graham: what's the difference between them. So I've got an electric vehicle, maybe should have said upfront. I've I've got a corner.
216 00:19:20.690 --> 00:19:21.930 Ian Graham: and
217 00:19:22.860 --> 00:19:32.309 Ian Graham: I bought that for a reason. It was the 1st electric car that I had seen. That was in a reasonable price bracket that gave a range of over 300 miles.
218 00:19:33.150 --> 00:19:34.983 Ian Graham: So up till that point
219 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:39.340 Ian Graham: I'd seen other electric cars. I knew people that had electric cars that
220 00:19:39.410 --> 00:19:44.279 Ian Graham: I think the original Nissan leaf was about a hundred, a hundred 20 miles.
221 00:19:44.370 --> 00:19:47.649 Ian Graham: To me that seemed just far, far too low.
222 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:49.630 Ian Graham: Given the
223 00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:52.539 Ian Graham: type of driving that I expected to do.
224 00:19:52.870 --> 00:19:56.109 Ian Graham: but with the Kona over 300 miles that then seemed
225 00:19:56.360 --> 00:19:59.559 Ian Graham: a point where it was worth looking at. An electric car!
226 00:20:00.250 --> 00:20:01.859 Ian Graham: How different are they?
227 00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:04.600 Ian Graham: Well, I think the 1st thing you realize is
228 00:20:04.890 --> 00:20:12.409 Ian Graham: they're all very much the same as any other car. The body's the same, the seats, the wheels, the tires, the suspension
229 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:13.840 Ian Graham: electronics.
230 00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:17.550 Ian Graham: And if if we just
231 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:22.340 Ian Graham: well, we'll come on to an actual picture of inside the bonnet in a moment.
232 00:20:22.760 --> 00:20:29.160 Ian Graham: But there's an amazing number of components that are the same between all these different variants.
233 00:20:29.260 --> 00:20:33.040 Ian Graham: for the obvious reason that the manufacturers want to reduce their costs.
234 00:20:35.080 --> 00:20:37.340 Ian Graham: So if we look at where we are with
235 00:20:37.510 --> 00:20:39.789 Ian Graham: moving towards electric vehicles.
236 00:20:41.270 --> 00:20:46.279 Ian Graham: I just shortly before the presentation fact, I was looking up the Smmt.
237 00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:51.820 Ian Graham: New car figures for September and for the year to date.
238 00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:54.700 Ian Graham: and comparing that with the previous year.
239 00:20:55.090 --> 00:20:58.789 Ian Graham: So you can see in September that Diesel and petrol
240 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:00.510 Ian Graham: slight declines
241 00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:02.040 Ian Graham: and
242 00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:06.120 Ian Graham: elect battery electric vehicles, which is the next group, have gone up
243 00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:07.929 Ian Graham: 24.4%
244 00:21:08.090 --> 00:21:08.990 Ian Graham: change
245 00:21:09.692 --> 00:21:13.630 Ian Graham: so that's good. And then plug in hybrids have actually gone up more.
246 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.379 Ian Graham: So 32%,
247 00:21:15.560 --> 00:21:21.620 Ian Graham: which to me indicates there's a big push towards these as opposed to pure electric vehicles
248 00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:25.170 Ian Graham: and hev are hybrids.
249 00:21:25.620 --> 00:21:27.989 Ian Graham: So there's a slight increase in them.
250 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:30.900 Ian Graham: Okay.
251 00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:36.449 Ian Graham: so straight away before I mean, okay, that's this background. If you like.
252 00:21:37.090 --> 00:21:39.909 Ian Graham: Would I recommend somebody get an electric car.
253 00:21:40.270 --> 00:21:40.970 Ian Graham: Wellness.
254 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:41.520 Jennifer Lanham: To.
255 00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:42.480 Ian Graham: 3
256 00:21:42.780 --> 00:21:47.440 Ian Graham: things in my mind that if if these apply to you, forget about it.
257 00:21:47.970 --> 00:21:55.720 Ian Graham: if it's too expensive, that is, you can't afford it. Well, forget about it, just like anything else in life. If you can't afford it, don't do it.
258 00:21:56.950 --> 00:22:00.529 Ian Graham: The second reason is, if you intend towing a caravan.
259 00:22:00.990 --> 00:22:06.989 Ian Graham: And why do I say that? Because pure battery electric vehicles just don't have the towing power
260 00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:11.759 Ian Graham: they use up far too much of the battery. If you're towing a big weight.
261 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:18.290 Ian Graham: so things may change in the future. I don't know but that'd be my recommendation at the moment.
262 00:22:19.390 --> 00:22:25.299 Ian Graham: and the 3rd one, maybe a bit more controversially is, if you can't get an off-road charger at your house.
263 00:22:25.950 --> 00:22:30.389 Ian Graham: I've seen articles written by people who have jumped into getting electric cars
264 00:22:31.300 --> 00:22:33.139 Ian Graham: couldn't charge them at home.
265 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:39.499 Ian Graham: charged on the public infrastructure, or run a cable out over the pavement, which I think is not a very good idea.
266 00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:41.050 Ian Graham: and
267 00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:43.909 Ian Graham: decided to give up on electric vehicles.
268 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:48.069 Ian Graham: Because if you're going to rely on the public charging infrastructure.
269 00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:51.759 Ian Graham: there's a big cost associated with that. I'll come back to that in a minute.
270 00:22:53.270 --> 00:22:56.869 Ian Graham: So the other things to think about apart from these, no nos
271 00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.529 Ian Graham: is, 1st of all, if if you
272 00:22:59.610 --> 00:23:06.789 Ian Graham: want to be able to charge at home and can charge at home. You're going to have to spend about 700 to 1,500
273 00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:15.550 Ian Graham: depends on the make and the model, and who installs it, and whether the car manufacturer gives you a discount or or a contribution, I should say, towards the cost.
274 00:23:15.790 --> 00:23:17.440 Ian Graham: But you need a home charger.
275 00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:26.009 Ian Graham: There's various different types. They can be tethered and untethered. They could be locking and non-locking. They can be single user available to others.
276 00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:30.279 Ian Graham: So if you want your charger to be secure.
277 00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:32.120 Ian Graham: You want a locking one
278 00:23:32.936 --> 00:23:42.939 Ian Graham: it's a convenience thing whether you have it tethered, tethered on in case you don't know what the term means. If it's tethered, it means there's already a cable on it, and you just plug that into the car.
279 00:23:43.030 --> 00:23:50.689 Ian Graham: Untethered means there's no cable there you take the cable out of your car, plug it into the car, and then plug it into the home charger.
280 00:23:53.620 --> 00:23:55.770 Ian Graham: The rates of charge are important.
281 00:23:55.890 --> 00:24:03.940 Ian Graham: If if you plug into a normal 3 PIN socket, you'll get about 3 kilowatts of charge going into the car.
282 00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:10.939 Ian Graham: That means, in, say, a 60 kilowatt car. That's a long time to charge up at 3 kilowatt hours
283 00:24:12.620 --> 00:24:16.040 Ian Graham: by putting in a home charger. You'll get about 7,
284 00:24:16.610 --> 00:24:23.319 Ian Graham: I say, about 7 obviously depends on other things that are going on, and how much else you're using in the house, etcetera.
285 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:30.910 Ian Graham: But here at home, if I'm not using anything, you know no dishwashers or anything on.
286 00:24:31.230 --> 00:24:35.579 Ian Graham: and the car's charging it will actually charge it about 7.4,
287 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:47.790 Ian Graham: and then you get fast chargers which tend to be the ones that are on the public network, and they can be A/C or DC. And some of the DC ones, I think, are getting up to about 300 kilowatt charging.
288 00:24:48.590 --> 00:24:51.430 Ian Graham: but the charge rate depends on the car model.
289 00:24:51.860 --> 00:25:02.199 Ian Graham: So if you're looking and you see that motorway service area X, it's got a 300 kilowatt charger, and you had a battery of 50 kilowatts.
290 00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:05.660 Ian Graham: You can't just do a simple division, because if you.
291 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:15.789 Ian Graham: if your car model will only accept 50 kilowatts having a 300 kilowatt charger isn't going to help you. It'll only charge at 50 kilowatts.
292 00:25:16.900 --> 00:25:17.720 Ian Graham: Okay?
293 00:25:18.950 --> 00:25:21.940 Ian Graham: The next thing to think about is planning ahead.
294 00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:28.859 Ian Graham: So if you drive a conventional car, and what you do is you fill it up as rarely as possible.
295 00:25:29.050 --> 00:25:35.879 Ian Graham: drain it right down to the lights flashing to saying, you're about to go out of fuel, and then you nip into a garage.
296 00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:44.179 Ian Graham: I think you'll find that electric cars are not for you. I don't think you can really do that. You need to think ahead of how far am I going?
297 00:25:44.450 --> 00:25:47.130 Ian Graham: Where am I likely to be able to challenge up.
298 00:25:47.850 --> 00:25:50.329 Ian Graham: So, for example, I went to a wedding.
299 00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:51.320 Ian Graham: and
300 00:25:51.570 --> 00:25:54.809 Ian Graham: down in Devon in the summer.
301 00:25:55.140 --> 00:26:01.259 Ian Graham: and I looked at where all the chargers were. It's quite easy to get apps that show you where all the charges are these days.
302 00:26:01.610 --> 00:26:05.570 Ian Graham: and worked out the rough mileage. So I thought the best strategy was to
303 00:26:06.530 --> 00:26:20.109 Ian Graham: get down to near where I was going on the very 1st day, and charge up straight away. That would then fill up the battery enough for me to do some local mileage while I was down there and get home again without having to worry about things.
304 00:26:21.430 --> 00:26:23.219 Ian Graham: So that's what I did. And I went to
305 00:26:23.830 --> 00:26:26.510 Ian Graham: a charging place in Cum Martin.
306 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:33.909 Ian Graham: and if you know Kim Martin, and it was a small car park. There was 2 chargers in it.
307 00:26:34.180 --> 00:26:44.070 Ian Graham: and I drove in, and there was one in use and the other one wasn't in use. I drove straight up, plugged in the car, thought, well, it's going to take about an hour and the charge rate it was giving.
308 00:26:44.210 --> 00:26:47.700 Ian Graham: And so I'm gonna have a walk. So I went off with my wife and had a walk
309 00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:51.510 Ian Graham: came back about, you know, 45 min later.
310 00:26:52.110 --> 00:27:07.630 Ian Graham: and there was a large truck in the middle of the car park, which I didn't realize was electric at first, st and the guy was going around talking to everybody, asking them questions, and he was looking across the electric charging points, both of which were in use myself in another car.
311 00:27:08.630 --> 00:27:16.899 Ian Graham: and he then found a parking space, the last one, and reversed into that, and so I thought, I'll go across and ask him what he's waiting on.
312 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:23.250 Ian Graham: And I went across and he said, Oh, yes, I'm waiting on a charging thing. And I said, Well, I'm actually on that one there.
313 00:27:23.520 --> 00:27:26.729 Ian Graham: But the thing is, I've had to buy a ticket to Park.
314 00:27:26.860 --> 00:27:31.587 Ian Graham: so I want to be able to park, so I don't want to come off the charger until
315 00:27:32.080 --> 00:27:42.829 Ian Graham: I can find a place to park. And he said, Well, that's no problem. I'll block the whole car Park entrance with my truck, which he then did, and let me come off the charger and reverse into his space.
316 00:27:43.130 --> 00:27:45.890 Ian Graham: and then he drove on to the chargers. So everybody was happy.
317 00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:51.259 Ian Graham: So people that drive electric cars are are sociable and go on well together
318 00:27:52.760 --> 00:27:54.419 Ian Graham: anyway, moving on.
319 00:27:55.770 --> 00:27:57.489 Ian Graham: So you need to plan ahead
320 00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:05.819 Ian Graham: the costs of charging at home, you know home, the solar panels, etc. That come into all of this. I also have solar panels just to let you know.
321 00:28:06.467 --> 00:28:15.209 Ian Graham: So the cost of home electricity. So if you're charging at home and you just charge during the day, I think the rate at the moment is about 25 PA. Kilowatt hour.
322 00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:21.510 Ian Graham: Now my son-in-law is on a tariff with octopus energy.
323 00:28:22.030 --> 00:28:27.739 Ian Graham: and if he sets it up to charge between 1130 in the evening and 5 30 in the morning
324 00:28:27.810 --> 00:28:35.490 Ian Graham: he gets charged 7 PA. Kilowatt. So that's a massive, massive reduction. So that's a potential
325 00:28:38.080 --> 00:28:40.140 Ian Graham: public rates vary
326 00:28:40.620 --> 00:28:52.239 Ian Graham: from free, which is very rare. Now there used to be quite a few, I think some of the Tesco supermarkets you can still charge for free, but they're only charging it 3 or 7 kilowatts.
327 00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:57.210 Ian Graham: So if you're shopping for an hour, you don't get a huge amount of electricity out of them.
328 00:28:57.670 --> 00:29:05.220 Ian Graham: but on motorways, etc. From these the big suppliers you're probably talking about 90 PA. Kilowatt
329 00:29:05.280 --> 00:29:07.000 Ian Graham: now, at that price
330 00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:14.460 Ian Graham: that is as expensive per mile in my estimation as driving a petrol car.
331 00:29:14.750 --> 00:29:17.839 Ian Graham: The the charge rates on
332 00:29:18.320 --> 00:29:21.889 Ian Graham: particularly motorway service areas are just ridiculous.
333 00:29:22.290 --> 00:29:26.820 Ian Graham: Benevy, that's that's what they are. So if you're doing continuous motorway driving.
334 00:29:26.830 --> 00:29:31.309 Ian Graham: and you're not getting on expenses. That'd be a factor to take into account.
335 00:29:33.950 --> 00:29:36.329 Ian Graham: Okay, so let's move on from that.
336 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.500 Ian Graham: Let's have a look under the bonnet.
337 00:29:39.290 --> 00:29:40.330 Ian Graham: So
338 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:45.579 Ian Graham: under the bonnet it looks remarkably similar to a conventional car.
339 00:29:46.170 --> 00:29:55.729 Ian Graham: That's the electric engine in the middle there, underneath. But you can see things like the washer bottle brake, fluid reservoir suspension units, etc.
340 00:29:56.100 --> 00:29:58.450 Ian Graham: and perhaps most surprisingly.
341 00:29:58.840 --> 00:30:00.520 Ian Graham: a 12 volt battery.
342 00:30:04.450 --> 00:30:13.300 Ian Graham: So, thinking about the major components, you have, and a conventional car. You've got 12 volt electrics that run away your radio and your
343 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:19.719 Ian Graham: and heating system and fan and all this sort of stuff in the car electric windows. Da da da.
344 00:30:20.050 --> 00:30:25.139 Ian Graham: you've got an engine, a gearbox, an exhaust, and a petrol tank. So these are the major things.
345 00:30:25.300 --> 00:30:31.329 Ian Graham: If you've got a pure electric vehicle. You've still got all these conventional electrics.
346 00:30:31.580 --> 00:30:33.100 Ian Graham: They're all 12 volts.
347 00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:38.129 Ian Graham: Well, why? Why don't they run off the big batteries? Well.
348 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:47.899 Ian Graham: for 2 reasons, history. I suppose the technology is well known and it reduces cost. You've got exactly the same components as every other car.
349 00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:51.270 Ian Graham: And the obvious other reason
350 00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:54.120 Ian Graham: is that sticking to 12 volts is safer.
351 00:30:54.250 --> 00:31:06.739 Ian Graham: You can't be zapped with a full battery. So 200 volts from the main batteries, when you're opening your door or switching on your lights, or whatever, because it's still running on 12 volts.
352 00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:16.130 Ian Graham: So in the pure, you've got the conventional electrics. But you then, on top of that. You have an electric motor and a battery.
353 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:27.339 Ian Graham: Now, hybrids, as we've said before, in terms of fuel, consumption, or whatever some hybrids are plug in ones you could effectively run as being 0 emissions
354 00:31:27.550 --> 00:31:30.319 Ian Graham: depending on your combination of driving.
355 00:31:30.840 --> 00:31:31.660 Ian Graham: But
356 00:31:31.840 --> 00:31:37.029 Ian Graham: the key point to me is, hybrids have a combination of all of these above things.
357 00:31:37.290 --> 00:31:46.339 Ian Graham: So you not only have the conventional electrics and engine gearbox exhaust and petrol tank, but you've got the electric motor and a large battery as well.
358 00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:50.070 Ian Graham: So think about as these vehicles age.
359 00:31:50.260 --> 00:31:53.790 Ian Graham: The cost of the maintenance of all these components.
360 00:31:55.020 --> 00:31:55.750 Ian Graham: and
361 00:31:55.970 --> 00:32:11.519 Ian Graham: my personal opinion is, I think, that the motor industry. And if you saw the smt figures are pushing hybrids as a good starting point for going electric, because they know that in the medium term these cars are going to start breaking down for all sorts of new reasons
362 00:32:11.780 --> 00:32:14.769 Ian Graham: where they can take money from you to fix them
363 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.869 Ian Graham: or to replace parts on them.
364 00:32:21.030 --> 00:32:22.040 Ian Graham: Okay.
365 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:35.850 Ian Graham: so is the transition working in terms of getting to fully electric. I mean, we've had various announcements from the Government about targets to to go.
366 00:32:35.860 --> 00:32:37.630 Ian Graham: I don't think it is
367 00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:38.839 Ian Graham: at the moment
368 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.839 Ian Graham: we're getting discounts on some electric cars.
369 00:32:43.290 --> 00:32:58.839 Ian Graham: and it might improve in the next year or so, because there's meant to be 22% of new cars need to be fully electric this year, and they're going to have to start paying penalties. So the prices are going to change the the budget that's going on at the moment may well change things.
370 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:03.579 Ian Graham: The manufacturers would like to see vat come down public charging.
371 00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:11.840 Ian Graham: even if that comes down, it's still going to be very expensive to use public charging compared with charging at home.
372 00:33:13.490 --> 00:33:18.120 Ian Graham: And so, as I say, garages and manufacturers are pushing hybrids.
373 00:33:20.810 --> 00:33:33.350 Ian Graham: So one of the things I do to show just how sad I am is, I collect a lot of data, and I have done for years and years and years against conventional cars. So when I got an electric one, I had to modify my spreadsheet.
374 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.040 Ian Graham: collect slightly different data.
375 00:33:37.530 --> 00:33:38.900 Ian Graham: So this is
376 00:33:38.970 --> 00:33:42.340 Ian Graham: part of the spreadsheet. I can show you the the whole thing if you want.
377 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.059 Ian Graham: but the 1st column is just a sequence. So that's just a number
378 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.489 Ian Graham: recorded mileage in the car.
379 00:33:48.760 --> 00:33:53.800 Ian Graham: how much charge was added in kilowatt hours, the price of electricity
380 00:33:54.980 --> 00:34:00.389 Ian Graham: based on where I charge, whether it was at home or whatever, if it was public charging, infrastructure
381 00:34:00.810 --> 00:34:05.110 Ian Graham: and later figures. When I started using solar panels
382 00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:07.070 Ian Graham: that comes down to 0,
383 00:34:07.930 --> 00:34:11.910 Ian Graham: we've got the miles driven as calculated total cost there for
384 00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:20.700 Ian Graham: the pence per mile. I do a moving average of the pence per mile, because I found that when you graph that it looks a bit more sensible. It doesn't bounce something down quite so much
385 00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:23.020 Ian Graham: the day I did the charge.
386 00:34:24.135 --> 00:34:25.140 Ian Graham: Where it was.
387 00:34:25.270 --> 00:34:28.719 Ian Graham: So you see, on that 1st sheet. There's what 26
388 00:34:29.139 --> 00:34:31.190 Ian Graham: recharging events.
389 00:34:31.330 --> 00:34:38.639 Ian Graham: Only one of these was in the public charging infrastructure. That's instable. Breadport down at line 23
390 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:52.150 Ian Graham: where the electricity cost was 75 p. Per kilowatt hour. So, as you can see, that was a double of what the price of electricity at home was at that time.
391 00:34:52.540 --> 00:34:57.109 Ian Graham: It's now, as I say, gone down to about 25 p. At home. So it's even more of a difference.
392 00:34:58.700 --> 00:35:15.650 Ian Graham: The expected range is once you've charged the car. The car tells you, as soon as you start to up what the expected range is, you obviously need to be able to see that. And I think a lot of conventional cars these days have that as well. And at 1st I didn't bother to record that. Which is why a lot of that column there is empty.
393 00:35:16.070 --> 00:35:21.010 Ian Graham: And then I thought, Well, it's it's really worth while recording that. So I started to put that down.
394 00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:24.380 Ian Graham: And you also see that I
395 00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:33.540 Ian Graham: normally charge, to begin with, right up to 100%, because, although I'd read stuff that said you should really only charge up to 80 or 90%,
396 00:35:34.570 --> 00:35:38.889 Ian Graham: I thought, well, what's the point? It's plugged in? I may as well let it run up to 100%.
397 00:35:39.450 --> 00:35:42.204 Ian Graham: Well, I think that the real reason for that is
398 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:49.937 Ian Graham: and and I'm not a physicist. So my understanding is, if if you
399 00:35:50.490 --> 00:35:55.770 Ian Graham: take a car, let's say got, let's say, a hundred kilowatt battery, because the numbers are easy
400 00:35:55.870 --> 00:35:57.809 Ian Graham: and you charged up to 90
401 00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:03.350 Ian Graham: kilowatts. Then you would add a kilowatt of energy, and it would go up by one.
402 00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:13.729 Ian Graham: But as you get nearer to the 100 for that last 10 kilowatts to top up, it takes more than 10 kilowatts of electricity to get the battery up that
403 00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:15.370 Ian Graham: final last 10.
404 00:36:16.090 --> 00:36:18.470 Ian Graham: And that's why they recommend that you don't
405 00:36:18.590 --> 00:36:20.070 Ian Graham: put it right to the top.
406 00:36:21.830 --> 00:36:27.099 Ian Graham: So I have changed that behavior. And now I actually only charge up to 90%,
407 00:36:27.520 --> 00:36:30.210 Ian Graham: and that hasn't really had a huge difference on
408 00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:32.059 Ian Graham: anything else that I do.
409 00:36:33.970 --> 00:36:42.569 Ian Graham: So the what's the real world range? So I've got the cone. And as I said, I bought it because I think it said at the time 304 miles was the the range you could expect.
410 00:36:44.020 --> 00:36:45.380 Ian Graham: The actual
411 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:51.430 Ian Graham: varies from about 250 to 350. So the highest figure I've got.
412 00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:01.410 Ian Graham: If you look at the figures on the screen at the moment the very last one there is 3, 6, 5 that's the highest number I've ever got when I've charged the car up to 100%.
413 00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:07.929 Ian Graham: And why is it such a range? Well, the main things that impact the range
414 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.569 Ian Graham: is how much of the conventional electrics you're using.
415 00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:14.409 Ian Graham: and also what the temperature is.
416 00:37:14.630 --> 00:37:16.070 Ian Graham: So in the summer
417 00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:23.290 Ian Graham: you get much higher range from the car because you're not using the window wipers and the lights
418 00:37:23.300 --> 00:37:27.880 Ian Graham: and air conditioning, etc. And the battery's warm
419 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:35.149 Ian Graham: in the middle of winter, when the temperatures sit down at 0, you've got all the lights on the window wipers going.
420 00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:39.029 Ian Graham: It's raining, and therefore the tires have
421 00:37:39.340 --> 00:37:42.789 Ian Graham: have to push the water aside as you're driving along.
422 00:37:42.810 --> 00:37:45.810 Ian Graham: The anticipated range is much, much less
423 00:37:48.130 --> 00:37:48.890 Ian Graham: okay.
424 00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:56.490 Ian Graham: So this is just taking the figures I've already shown you across the whole spreadsheet
425 00:37:56.760 --> 00:38:00.800 Ian Graham: and showing you that estimated range. So in
426 00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:02.599 Ian Graham: between September
427 00:38:03.570 --> 00:38:08.749 Ian Graham: and May. I didn't record any numbers, which is why they're not there. So it starts instead of June.
428 00:38:09.250 --> 00:38:10.480 Ian Graham: and
429 00:38:11.910 --> 00:38:15.159 Ian Graham: you can see how it varies through the year. So January
430 00:38:15.460 --> 00:38:22.190 Ian Graham: set, April is much lower, and then it rises up again, and you can see it starts to dip again as we're getting towards autumn. Now.
431 00:38:27.160 --> 00:38:35.769 Ian Graham: okay, here's the the running cost. So that's just again taking what you saw on that spreadsheet. But across the whole spreadsheet I've got.
432 00:38:37.160 --> 00:38:39.770 Ian Graham: and 25 p. For home, charging
433 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.839 Ian Graham: solar's taken at 0. So the other change that I had this summer.
434 00:38:45.260 --> 00:38:48.740 Ian Graham: Where will these numbers go right down to 0 for a period.
435 00:38:49.090 --> 00:38:50.050 Ian Graham: was.
436 00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:54.420 Ian Graham: I thought, well, I've got solar panels, and I can actually set that up
437 00:38:54.920 --> 00:39:00.429 Ian Graham: to supply the car, so the car will when you plug it in and put it on charge.
438 00:39:01.160 --> 00:39:05.760 Ian Graham: the charger will only take power from the solar panels.
439 00:39:06.690 --> 00:39:17.390 Ian Graham: Now that means it's much slower. It's more like a conventional 3 PIN socket. You only get about 3 kilowatts coming off the solar panels, but you can do it over multiple days.
440 00:39:17.600 --> 00:39:24.909 Ian Graham: So if you get days when you're not using the car very much and plug it in, you effectively. Get free charging.
441 00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:27.930 Ian Graham: and that can make a massive difference
442 00:39:29.187 --> 00:39:33.440 Ian Graham: to the overall cost of running, as you can see, that drops down.
443 00:39:33.550 --> 00:39:36.070 Ian Graham: So the 1st year over the summer.
444 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:41.570 Ian Graham: and I was using it plugging in. So it was coming out about 7 Pm. Mile
445 00:39:41.640 --> 00:39:42.820 Ian Graham: running cost.
446 00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:45.900 Ian Graham: but this summer it was nothing.
447 00:39:46.730 --> 00:39:58.259 Ian Graham: Now you've got the cost of the solar panels, etc. People. Yes, you know you need an investment before you're going to be able to achieve that sort of thing. But it's not something you can achieve in a conventional car
448 00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:08.629 Ian Graham: in in the case of public charging that that's where it really jumps up. So the points where it jumps up is where I've I've used that
449 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:17.499 Ian Graham: public charging in all 3 cases. So in 2 years I've used the public charging infrastructure 3 times.
450 00:40:18.290 --> 00:40:19.050 Ian Graham: Yeah.
451 00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:25.920 Ian Graham: they're all instavault. Why did I use instavault? Because some of the companies that are selling
452 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:37.449 Ian Graham: electricity to you for charging cars have all sorts of barriers to doing it. You need a card. You need a special. You need to preregistered and logged on. And all this sort of stuff.
453 00:40:38.100 --> 00:40:46.270 Ian Graham: What I found was that instaval. You just literally touch the screen with your credit card. It says, Okay, plug in the car. You plug it in.
454 00:40:46.570 --> 00:40:48.560 Ian Graham: You go away. That's it.
455 00:40:48.620 --> 00:40:58.440 Ian Graham: Nobody, by the way, can pull the plug out while it's in you come back again. Tap your credit card on the screen. It gives you how much electricity is going in.
456 00:40:58.450 --> 00:41:01.169 Ian Graham: You know what the cost is. Da da da da
457 00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:09.830 Ian Graham: you pull the plug out, and that's it. You drive away so it couldn't be easier. Yes, it takes time to do that. Yes, as I said in cum Martin. I had to spend an hour.
458 00:41:10.210 --> 00:41:13.520 Ian Graham: but it seemed very, very easy.
459 00:41:14.110 --> 00:41:18.770 Ian Graham: which brings in the thing about conventional garages
460 00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:26.160 Ian Graham: over our lifetimes, I would think, unless you're too young. You have realized that conventional garages have declined in numbers
461 00:41:26.410 --> 00:41:29.719 Ian Graham: as electric car use increases
462 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:31.590 Ian Graham: that will continue
463 00:41:32.050 --> 00:41:36.359 Ian Graham: so. People will have to drive further and further
464 00:41:36.430 --> 00:41:40.030 Ian Graham: to get a conventional car talked up in a way.
465 00:41:40.420 --> 00:41:43.260 Ian Graham: garbages are not going to stay because of
466 00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:45.140 Ian Graham: electric car
467 00:41:46.050 --> 00:41:49.150 Ian Graham: charging, because a lot of them don't provide it.
468 00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:58.399 Ian Graham: There's an awful lot of garages around where they have no electric charging capability at all, and the 3 cases where I've used it.
469 00:42:00.120 --> 00:42:02.149 Ian Graham: One was a car park, as I said.
470 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:05.259 Ian Graham: one was in a
471 00:42:06.060 --> 00:42:09.120 Ian Graham: beside a shopping center near a station.
472 00:42:09.190 --> 00:42:11.010 Ian Graham: so it was just a car Park.
473 00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:16.680 Ian Graham: and the 3rd one was at Bridport, in Dorset, and that was at a
474 00:42:18.140 --> 00:42:19.010 Ian Graham: So
475 00:42:19.870 --> 00:42:22.180 Ian Graham: what you got an exercise center.
476 00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:25.680 Ian Graham: So again, nothing to do with garages so
477 00:42:25.700 --> 00:42:32.150 Ian Graham: long. Term garages are going to disappear quite quickly and make it difficult for people with conventional cars to get fuel.
478 00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:39.859 Ian Graham: So while I keep electric car would I recommend one?
479 00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:44.749 Ian Graham: Well, I've had one problem with the corner. I actually broke down. Had to get the Aa out.
480 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:48.880 Ian Graham: And what was it? It was the 12 volt. Battery field
481 00:42:49.230 --> 00:42:52.869 Ian Graham: which I find quite ironic. That
482 00:42:54.330 --> 00:43:03.620 Ian Graham: that was, that's what went wrong. So not the main battery, not any of the other components, not the wheels, tires, or anything else but the 12 volt. Battery.
483 00:43:04.300 --> 00:43:06.310 Ian Graham: and apparently
484 00:43:06.947 --> 00:43:17.209 Ian Graham: Tesla, have now changed the conventional 12. Even Teslas have 12 Volt batteries in them for the electrics, the same as every other manufacturer.
485 00:43:17.750 --> 00:43:20.050 Ian Graham: and they've now developed a
486 00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:39.010 Ian Graham: a much longer lasting 12 volt. Battery, because they found that's happened on Teslas as well, where the batteries failed and people can't understand. Why is the battery, you know? I thought I had an electric car, and it's fully charged, and I can't start it, because well, there's nothing wrong with your batteries. It's actually the old 12 volt thing that doesn't work.
487 00:43:40.290 --> 00:43:42.109 Ian Graham: anyway. So
488 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:51.030 Ian Graham: I've scrapped, sold, given away, or whatever all other petrol devices that I had. So I'm in this for the long term. I'm not going to turn back.
489 00:43:51.140 --> 00:43:55.330 Ian Graham: And so the petrol, lawn mower, the petrol, strimmer, etc. Have all gone.
490 00:43:56.450 --> 00:44:02.290 Ian Graham: Would I recommend that you jump in now? Well, a 1st of all, you need to see what happens in the budget today.
491 00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:05.360 Ian Graham: but I think in the next year or so
492 00:44:06.340 --> 00:44:10.880 Ian Graham: the prices are likely to drop quite a bit, both in terms of
493 00:44:11.210 --> 00:44:12.609 Ian Graham: used cars.
494 00:44:13.070 --> 00:44:17.900 Ian Graham: but also in terms of hitting targets. As long as these aren't changed by the government.
495 00:44:18.460 --> 00:44:24.929 Ian Graham: the the manufacturers will have to hit sales targets, and therefore they'll be really pushing electric cars
496 00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:34.970 Ian Graham: so subject to the caveats at the beginning, if you can't afford it, etc. And you want to tow a caravan, or whatever, then I would recommend. It's
497 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.560 Ian Graham: worthwhile, but not just yet.
498 00:44:38.890 --> 00:44:43.269 Ian Graham: and the final thing is, never keep an Ev. For more than 8 years.
499 00:44:44.810 --> 00:44:52.769 Ian Graham: My nephew did a Phd. In in electronics at Cambridge. And then he worked for
500 00:44:53.030 --> 00:44:54.070 Ian Graham: Jaguar
501 00:44:54.120 --> 00:44:55.680 Ian Graham: on our E-pace
502 00:44:55.900 --> 00:44:57.389 Ian Graham: when it was being developed.
503 00:44:58.240 --> 00:45:01.880 Ian Graham: and they did a lot of testing on batteries and things.
504 00:45:02.300 --> 00:45:04.870 Ian Graham: and it was him that said to me.
505 00:45:05.590 --> 00:45:07.750 Ian Graham: They'll last 8 to 10 years
506 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.550 Ian Graham: no more. So never.
507 00:45:10.650 --> 00:45:14.320 Ian Graham: never touch a current electric car that may change in the future.
508 00:45:14.330 --> 00:45:20.590 Ian Graham: But don't touch a current electric car that's going to be 80 years old or over when you're using it.
509 00:45:20.830 --> 00:45:25.649 Ian Graham: So if you bought a second one and one that was 2 years old and sold it when it was 6 years old. Fine!
510 00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:30.700 Ian Graham: But don't. Don't buy one. That's 7 years old, because you're not gonna have it running for
511 00:45:30.730 --> 00:45:33.110 Ian Graham: too much longer. If you're not careful.
512 00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:36.469 Ian Graham: Okay, so
513 00:45:36.830 --> 00:45:38.340 Ian Graham: that's pretty much it.
514 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:42.670 Ian Graham: I'm open to any questions. If anybody has any questions.
515 00:45:46.410 --> 00:45:47.940 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Ian. That was
516 00:45:48.360 --> 00:46:15.579 Graham Stoddart-Stones: very different from what I was expecting, based on your previous presentation. I thought, this is marvellous, and I thought the previous one was pretty good. So thank you so much for taking the time to recreate it. It's obviously greatly improved and a lot of fun. So thank you lots to think about there a couple of thoughts that I'd like to throw at people before we go on to everybody else's questions, and one was that you mentioned a possible
517 00:46:15.580 --> 00:46:36.639 Graham Stoddart-Stones: use of hydrogen for car use. I've read all sorts of reports that say that in order to get climate change under control, the hydrogen needs to be reserved for those really heat intensive operations where it can replace electricity and nothing else can. That isn't carbon fuel.
518 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:50.150 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So hydrogen, I think is, the experts are suggesting that there's only so much we can make each year, and it's all needed for the big intensive operations. So let's keep your cars electric
519 00:46:50.879 --> 00:46:55.389 Graham Stoddart-Stones: and the second thing I thought was was fun. Was that
520 00:46:55.910 --> 00:46:57.280 Graham Stoddart-Stones: you mentioned
521 00:46:58.250 --> 00:47:01.819 Graham Stoddart-Stones: charging your car battery? Now to 90%
522 00:47:02.046 --> 00:47:07.900 Graham Stoddart-Stones: do you? Does it tell itself when to stop? Or do you have to go out there in the middle of the night and turn it off.
523 00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:09.619 Ian Graham: No, no, it's all okay.
524 00:47:09.620 --> 00:47:11.380 Graham Stoddart-Stones: It's all built in. Okay, that's good.
525 00:47:11.380 --> 00:47:16.350 Ian Graham: You. You can schedule a start time. So if you went under the cheaper electricity
526 00:47:16.680 --> 00:47:21.109 Ian Graham: option, then it won't start charging till 1130 at night.
527 00:47:21.290 --> 00:47:30.050 Ian Graham: and if it reached 90% before 5, 30 in the morning, because you'd have it automatically set to stop at 5 30 in the morning.
528 00:47:30.210 --> 00:47:33.560 Ian Graham: But it reached 90% before that. Then it would just stop.
529 00:47:33.820 --> 00:47:35.329 Graham Stoddart-Stones: That's great. Okay?
530 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:43.389 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And then the last comment I had was that on your forecast of prices dropping, I thought I'd throw in that the
531 00:47:43.410 --> 00:47:50.950 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Chinese cars coming over at the moment is so much less expensive than really giving up the local manufacturers
532 00:47:50.990 --> 00:47:54.909 Graham Stoddart-Stones: an intensive push to reduce their prices to.
533 00:47:54.910 --> 00:47:55.360 Ian Graham: Yeah.
534 00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:00.590 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Because the Chinese are doing such a wonderful job of reducing prices.
535 00:48:00.700 --> 00:48:24.620 Graham Stoddart-Stones: which, of course, generates all sorts of other thoughts, but at least from the consumer point of view. You're right. Big reduction in car prices. Let me 1st of all, highlight the wonderful thoughts going into the chat. There's lots of useful links there from Kara in particular. So thank you very much for those. And in the meantime let's push on and ask Stuart if you'd like to go ahead with your question. Please.
536 00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:29.020 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Hi, thank you, and thank you, Ian, for a very interesting talk.
537 00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.340 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I've actually got loads of questions.
538 00:48:36.368 --> 00:48:42.639 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: but, as I said earlier. I I'm seriously considering buying an electric vehicle.
539 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:46.119 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: so I'm in the market for them.
540 00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:49.009 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I would heed your advice and maybe wait
541 00:48:49.250 --> 00:48:50.790 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: till next year.
542 00:48:51.050 --> 00:48:55.190 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I was thinking about getting a second hand one.
543 00:48:55.220 --> 00:48:59.250 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I was having a look at some 2 year old pole stars!
544 00:48:59.410 --> 00:49:00.869 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: They look quite nice
545 00:49:01.907 --> 00:49:08.059 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: but I I was wondering, do you know of anything on the horizon which is going to change electric cars?
546 00:49:08.200 --> 00:49:20.060 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I'm I'm thinking of different battery technologies. I gather Tesla is gonna go lithium free from next year. I keep hearing about aluminium air batteries
547 00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:22.880 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: that will do a thousand mile range.
548 00:49:22.890 --> 00:49:24.769 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: and you can just swap them out.
549 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.216 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Is there anything like that on the horizon?
550 00:49:28.770 --> 00:49:32.520 Ian Graham: I think there's loads of research going on in in these areas.
551 00:49:33.830 --> 00:49:37.640 Ian Graham: So I I can't tell the future any more than than you can.
552 00:49:37.690 --> 00:49:40.759 Ian Graham: So you know, anything could happen. But
553 00:49:41.430 --> 00:49:45.899 Ian Graham: to me, you need to also think that if if something radical is going to come along.
554 00:49:46.230 --> 00:49:52.589 Ian Graham: there's a huge amount of investment already, and is continuing to go into electric vehicles.
555 00:49:53.070 --> 00:49:56.349 Ian Graham: and that creates a barrier to rapid change
556 00:49:56.540 --> 00:49:59.369 Ian Graham: because they want their money back and what they've invested
557 00:49:59.740 --> 00:50:00.830 Ian Graham: so
558 00:50:01.540 --> 00:50:03.099 Ian Graham: yes, I'm sure. Thank.
559 00:50:03.615 --> 00:50:04.130 tristram cary: Training.
560 00:50:05.262 --> 00:50:09.510 Ian Graham: But whether they'll change really quickly I would doubt.
561 00:50:10.490 --> 00:50:14.879 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Okay. And juju. Just to go back to Graham's Point, I I gather
562 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.730 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: there's been a huge increase in the amount of naturally occurring hydrogen being found.
563 00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:28.689 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: and quite a few of the big oil exploration companies are out searching for
564 00:50:28.930 --> 00:50:30.800 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: naturally occurring hydrogen.
565 00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:42.290 Ian Graham: Well, I don't know if Graham wants to to comment on that. I mean, if perhaps that's also going to be kept for more industrial use rather than
566 00:50:43.070 --> 00:50:55.270 Ian Graham: anything else. I mean, if if you really got large amounts that was like natural gas, then I would have thought the obvious thing to do rather than people driving around with hydrogen in the behind. The
567 00:50:55.540 --> 00:50:59.250 Ian Graham: seat of their car is is to do it into district heating.
568 00:50:59.600 --> 00:51:02.169 Ian Graham: So you're providing heating for housing.
569 00:51:02.490 --> 00:51:08.879 Ian Graham: because obviously the other big consumer of fossil fuels is all our boilers and our houses.
570 00:51:09.730 --> 00:51:10.780 Ian Graham: So
571 00:51:11.270 --> 00:51:23.989 Ian Graham: going purely electric isn't really possible in a house. I've got solar panels. So in the summer, if I'm charging up the car, for example, I'm not supplying my house.
572 00:51:24.890 --> 00:51:31.479 Ian Graham: and when the sun doesn't shine like in the winter. You're neither charging up the car, nor are you able to provide enough
573 00:51:31.530 --> 00:51:34.460 Ian Graham: from the solar panels to run your whole house.
574 00:51:35.090 --> 00:51:35.610 Ian Graham: So
575 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.139 Ian Graham: you still need a boiler.
576 00:51:38.170 --> 00:51:44.749 Ian Graham: and it'd be lovely to get rid of a boiler. I mean, okay, there's a ground source heat pumps.
577 00:51:44.770 --> 00:51:45.305 Ian Graham: But
578 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.829 Ian Graham: I haven't yet seen that these are good enough
579 00:51:49.750 --> 00:51:52.220 Ian Graham: for me to make that jump.
580 00:51:52.740 --> 00:52:09.230 Cara Naden: Can, I interject? Sorry I can't quite end this conversation, because hydrogen really winds me up so. I think the point is that we can all go to electric. But obviously we can't rely on little soda panels on our roofs to do all the energy demand that we require for our cars and our heat pumps.
581 00:52:09.350 --> 00:52:30.360 Cara Naden: And so that's why onshore wind is going to be a huge change to enable that, because it's a much more efficient way of generating power, and generally, when you look at when wind is at its peak, it's when solar is slightly lower, and so it balances itself pretty good in order to do that as well as potentially, adding in things like tidal, which is a guaranteed twice a day.
582 00:52:30.410 --> 00:52:40.380 Cara Naden: particularly if you're in the Southwest for the second highest tide in the world would be great to tap into those resources in which case we could more than generate enough energy that we require
583 00:52:40.380 --> 00:53:03.049 Cara Naden: hydrogen is an energy transfer. It is not an energy generation. So you basically use a lot of electricity to split water molecules, to break out the hydrogen to then be able to use it. And it's a very energy intensive process, unless, as the fossil fuel companies are doing, are cracking fossil fuels in order to extract the hydrogen out of that, and that's why they're so interested in it, because it will keep them in their business going.
584 00:53:03.497 --> 00:53:20.729 Cara Naden: So hydrogen is not great, I can understand, for high industrial requirements where they need a lot of heat. As has been mentioned, where we've got a lot of surplus renewables. Then hydrogen does make some sort of sense, but certainly not for putting it into households, because also to note
585 00:53:20.770 --> 00:53:23.309 Cara Naden: the hydrogen molecule is super small.
586 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:41.460 Cara Naden: and our existing infrastructure is not designed to be able to contain hydrogen molecules, nor can it actually contain fossil fuel gas, because we've got a huge amount of lost in the network of gas through leakage. And once hydrogen gets into the atmosphere and bonds with other types of gas, it actually becomes quite negative for climate change impacts.
587 00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:43.030 Cara Naden: So
588 00:53:43.080 --> 00:53:44.750 Cara Naden: oxygen? No.
589 00:53:44.910 --> 00:53:45.950 Cara Naden: and
590 00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:47.499 Cara Naden: in terms of
591 00:53:48.020 --> 00:53:58.728 Cara Naden: some of the stuff you're talking about electric vehicles, and it's so great to hear your passion to share with others your experience. And you're right. There are a lot of things happening in the in the battery,
592 00:53:59.540 --> 00:54:07.653 Cara Naden: technology area. And I have put in the chat. A link to fully charge, which is an online
593 00:54:08.240 --> 00:54:24.169 Cara Naden: they have loads of videos and information about all sorts of things around electric vehicles. What's coming up in new technology, but also a lot of reviews about existing electric vehicles alongside, renewable energy as well. So that will be reiterated, no doubt, in their stuff about hydrogen.
594 00:54:24.716 --> 00:54:29.000 Cara Naden: So I recommend that and in terms of
595 00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:39.389 Cara Naden: being able to tow Evs can tow, and certainly more of the current ones are very capable. They've got a huge amount of torque. So towing is actually not a problem. But as you note.
596 00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.040 Cara Naden: if you're going long distances and uphills and very heavy things. It will impact your battery range.
597 00:54:44.190 --> 00:54:46.950 Cara Naden: And so that is something to be mindful of.
598 00:54:47.160 --> 00:55:14.500 Cara Naden: And there are quite a number of really interesting and useful websites, looking at all the networks across the country, providing public charging. I agree that having a home charge is better, because it's cheaper, and, as you say, if you've got a Pv. Then you can generate free energy to put into your car and run on sunshine. But, as you also noted. There are more public ev charging points now across the country than there are fossil fuel
599 00:55:14.500 --> 00:55:21.840 Cara Naden: gas stations, and you can also convert. So there's quite a lot of work going around supporting
600 00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:44.849 Cara Naden: to create low cost, particularly, sometimes reusing some of the batteries from particularly crashed Evs. So there's been more kind of superficial damage to a vehicle, and it hasn't caused any issues to the battery, and people picking up for a few 1,000 pounds to help do conversion kits for existing cars. So that's also another opportunity to get a kind of lower cost one.
601 00:55:44.900 --> 00:55:58.890 Cara Naden: and in terms of length of time interesting about the 80% or 9% charging that was generally around. If you're using DC. Charging from what I recall, because DC. Charging and direct current rather than A/C current.
602 00:55:58.890 --> 00:56:15.250 Cara Naden: they were concerned that it might have had an impact on the lifespan of the battery. But I've known people who've been running cars on DC. Charging. So the Mcconaugh motorway ones, for example, with high power, and they have been quite impressed.
603 00:56:15.330 --> 00:56:25.009 Cara Naden: Actually, the degradation of those batteries hasn't been as expected. But that was really why they're trying to reduce it down to only 80% charge using the DC charging.
604 00:56:25.830 --> 00:56:27.090 Cara Naden: And, as someone said.
605 00:56:27.150 --> 00:56:44.340 Cara Naden: you know, battery length of time are surpassing those initial predictions on their lifespan. So electric vehicle charging is generally cars are generally lasting longer than they thought initially, but of course it all comes with, how do you drive it? How often are you? DC, charging it.
606 00:56:44.350 --> 00:56:56.459 Cara Naden: and also issues around? Particularly in the winter, that the range decreases, because when, as soon as you start putting electric heating on, as we know it has a very high energy demand, and so that will drain quite a lot of
607 00:56:56.530 --> 00:56:58.419 Cara Naden: power from your battery.
608 00:57:01.490 --> 00:57:02.460 Cara Naden: But.
609 00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:18.669 Graham Stoddart-Stones: The longest I ever heard you speak. Cara? Well done! Thank you. Just a point that rather like Ian. I spent much of my working life in it, and we certainly developed the expression for people who are looking what to buy.
610 00:57:18.860 --> 00:57:43.369 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But, I said, I can guarantee you that whatever it is that you buy tomorrow today, as a decision will be shown tomorrow to have been the wrong decision. So I think in the same way, things are changing so fast nowadays, despite your forecast, that they're not going to change that quickly in the Ev market. I think that a lot of startups may come and say, although you, Mr.
611 00:57:43.370 --> 00:57:53.329 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Conventional legacy car maker, who are switching to an electric vehicle, and you don't want the technology to change, I think the startups will come ahead and change them anyway.
612 00:57:53.460 --> 00:57:57.190 Graham Stoddart-Stones: and you'll go. You'll go for whatever gives you the best bang for the buck.
613 00:57:57.703 --> 00:58:05.800 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But I guarantee you that if you make a decision today you'll discover it was the wrong decision tomorrow, because something new will be developed.
614 00:58:06.190 --> 00:58:12.090 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, Stuart, you've been up again and off again, up again and off again. I'm not quite sure whether you do want to ask a question or not.
615 00:58:12.090 --> 00:58:15.970 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I do it, and automatically keeps going down.
616 00:58:15.970 --> 00:58:16.590 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh, right!
617 00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:21.900 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: do do all evs have heat pumps in them for heating.
618 00:58:24.070 --> 00:58:31.960 Ian Graham: I know it's it's convention for heating inside the cabin. It's just the conventional heater that you'd get in any other car. I think.
619 00:58:32.446 --> 00:58:34.880 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: In a conventional ice car.
620 00:58:35.210 --> 00:58:36.529 Ian Graham: Oh, that's coming up.
621 00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:38.030 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Takes the heat from the engine, doesn't it?
622 00:58:38.030 --> 00:58:41.829 Ian Graham: Yeah, no, no, that's 1 of the reasons it uses up so much battery power.
623 00:58:42.700 --> 00:58:43.410 Ian Graham: Yeah.
624 00:58:43.410 --> 00:58:45.859 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So it's just electric wires. Yeah.
625 00:58:45.860 --> 00:58:48.610 Ian Graham: So if if you you can see it.
626 00:58:48.830 --> 00:58:51.940 Ian Graham: I mean it's it's absolutely if you're driving along.
627 00:58:51.970 --> 00:58:54.070 Ian Graham: And you've got all the heat off.
628 00:58:54.350 --> 00:58:56.750 Ian Graham: Yeah, and your range might say
629 00:58:57.500 --> 00:58:58.960 Ian Graham: 300 miles.
630 00:58:59.040 --> 00:59:00.719 Ian Graham: If you then put on
631 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:10.239 Ian Graham: the the air conditioning which you can preset to a temperature, say 20 degrees, or whatever the range will immediately drop by 40 or 50 miles.
632 00:59:12.140 --> 00:59:12.830 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Okay.
633 00:59:15.530 --> 00:59:21.239 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: do modern cars, modern electrics now have bi-directional charging. So
634 00:59:21.970 --> 00:59:24.259 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: you can actually supply the house.
635 00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:28.799 Ian Graham: No? Well, but mine mine doesn't. But some models do.
636 00:59:29.140 --> 00:59:39.040 Cara Naden: There are a few. There are a few, I think the Nissan leaf was the 1st to lead on it, even though I, 3 Bmw. I. 3 has got it capable, but hasn't been switched on.
637 00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:53.180 Cara Naden: And so there's a lot of that kind of technology within the cars. But because we don't have vehicle to grid charging, which does that bidirectional in this country so much that it hasn't really taken off
638 00:59:53.542 --> 01:00:03.359 Cara Naden: but I think we will be seeing more of that happening, as batteries in cars will be able to help balance the grid. So while people are parked, 90% of the time, whether at work.
639 01:00:03.781 --> 01:00:17.498 Cara Naden: For example, and plugged in, they'll be able to charge and discharge, to help balance the grid and ensure that when they need to go that we have a full battery. So it's really exciting to see that kind of element being looked at, particularly around.
640 01:00:18.020 --> 01:00:22.365 Cara Naden: the element of evs and batteries as part of the grid.
641 01:00:22.940 --> 01:00:27.670 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Yeah, I think national grid are quite keen to promote that sort of thing.
642 01:00:27.670 --> 01:00:36.790 Cara Naden: Yeah. So there are some out there, and I've got friends who have kind of very cleverly looked into the Bmw. I. 3, for example, to see that that is part of the
643 01:00:36.860 --> 01:00:37.705 Cara Naden: how.
644 01:00:38.630 --> 01:00:43.160 Cara Naden: don't know some of the electronics, isn't it? The it hardware of it, but hasn't been activated.
645 01:00:43.830 --> 01:00:49.190 Cara Naden: But leaf leafs were leading on that for quite some time. There's a few vehicle to grid trials. I think that they've been leading
646 01:00:49.976 --> 01:00:51.290 Cara Naden: a while.
647 01:00:52.230 --> 01:00:54.130 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: And my next question was,
648 01:00:54.570 --> 01:00:57.049 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: how does the 12 Volt battery get charged?
649 01:00:58.010 --> 01:01:02.669 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Does it get charged as you're going along, or only when you plugged in.
650 01:01:02.670 --> 01:01:10.510 Ian Graham: No. When I 1st got the car, that there is somebody else in the village here who who already had one or his wife had one.
651 01:01:10.590 --> 01:01:13.079 Ian Graham: and he said, Have you seen the green light yet?
652 01:01:14.110 --> 01:01:15.959 Ian Graham: And I said, what you talking about?
653 01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:21.240 Ian Graham: He said. Have you seen this green light in your car. I said. What green light? He said on the bonnet.
654 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:28.210 Ian Graham: and I said, No, what are you talking about? Well, there's a little light on the bonnet that that is normally out, and you don't notice it.
655 01:01:28.250 --> 01:01:34.189 Ian Graham: But if that light comes on, the car is charging the 12 volt. Battery from the main batteries.
656 01:01:34.970 --> 01:01:37.550 Ian Graham: So it decides when it needs to do that.
657 01:01:38.590 --> 01:01:45.050 Ian Graham: And the problem that I had with a 12 volt battery was the 12 Volt. Battery was Kaput. It wasn't accepting any charge.
658 01:01:45.310 --> 01:01:47.770 Ian Graham: so that's why it went completely flat.
659 01:01:49.480 --> 01:02:00.670 Ian Graham: But yes, so it it doesn't have to be driving along is the point. I'm making a a the car will decide on its own when it needs to charge up the 12 full battery.
660 01:02:02.100 --> 01:02:04.739 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Okay, thank you. I'll I'll shift that now.
661 01:02:08.410 --> 01:02:19.560 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Interesting comment from Jennifer in the the chat about the increased tire wear, so must speak, a little bit of difference to your cost of
662 01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:22.300 Graham Stoddart-Stones: overall cost of owning a car.
663 01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:26.749 Graham Stoddart-Stones: If you've got to change the tyres more frequently because the cars are heavier.
664 01:02:27.750 --> 01:02:32.730 Ian Graham: I haven't experienced that yet. I don't know whether that's that's true or not.
665 01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:37.139 Ian Graham: Unconventional cars, because I've driven an awful lot of these over an awful lot of years.
666 01:02:37.900 --> 01:02:41.859 Ian Graham: It's the driver that seemed to me that was the key factor there.
667 01:02:42.790 --> 01:02:50.020 Ian Graham: and and how heavy your right foot was in terms of Tyre wear, and how you took corners, etc.
668 01:02:50.090 --> 01:02:53.669 Ian Graham: It could be that electric cars use up more
669 01:02:54.375 --> 01:02:58.510 Ian Graham: Tyre tread. I I have no experience of that so far.
670 01:02:59.660 --> 01:03:04.249 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Out of interest. Ian, what sort of annual mileage are you doing in the electric car?
671 01:03:07.930 --> 01:03:09.759 Ian Graham: And this 1, 12, 6,
672 01:03:10.230 --> 01:03:11.600 Ian Graham: 6,000.
673 01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:14.829 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Right, so fairly light.
674 01:03:14.930 --> 01:03:20.620 Ian Graham: Yeah, yeah, I mean, when I was working, I sometimes I was doing like 20,000 a year
675 01:03:21.410 --> 01:03:23.630 Ian Graham: and and conventional cars.
676 01:03:26.370 --> 01:03:33.819 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Alright. Let me check to see if anyone else has any more questions. I don't see any waving hands or shouts, or anything.
677 01:03:34.210 --> 01:03:36.189 Graham Stoddart-Stones: so thank you.
678 01:03:36.190 --> 01:03:38.510 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Sorry. Could can I just ask one final question?
679 01:03:38.510 --> 01:03:39.399 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Of course.
680 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:44.510 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I was wondering about the recycling of the Ev batteries.
681 01:03:44.550 --> 01:03:46.190 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: I see, Cara
682 01:03:46.790 --> 01:03:49.600 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: put in something about it from Scientific American.
683 01:03:49.730 --> 01:03:55.490 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: but the last I heard was, there were 2 recycling plants in Germany.
684 01:03:55.740 --> 01:03:58.059 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: and none in the Uk.
685 01:03:59.910 --> 01:04:08.944 Cara Naden: One in France as well. I think veridor actually lithium battery cycling. But what's very interesting about
686 01:04:09.660 --> 01:04:10.840 Cara Naden: the
687 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:33.290 Cara Naden: options for ev batteries is that even though they kind of will start to degrade in terms of capacity, they still are very useful for energy storage, for so quite a lot of them are then being used for things like you know, backup energy for servers, and they've been used for energy storage. So they have quite a high second life use before they need to be recycled.
688 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:43.209 Cara Naden: And I think the point is in this country is that there isn't that many that have come to end of use completely for it to warrant the expense of setting up a lithium recycling
689 01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:48.419 Cara Naden: centre. But no doubt, as we get to that point, it will be seen, as a lucrative business.
690 01:04:50.520 --> 01:04:51.280 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Thank you.
691 01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:59.590 Ian Graham: It's going to be a lot easier to recycle a pile of batteries to get these elements back out of them again than it is to knock down another mountain, or whatever it's my view.
692 01:04:59.590 --> 01:05:01.480 Cara Naden: Yeah, yes, indeed.
693 01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:07.049 Cara Naden: I mean, they are infinitely recyclable, as is kind of glass and other metals, so
694 01:05:07.330 --> 01:05:10.387 Cara Naden: it will be seen as a very important
695 01:05:11.120 --> 01:05:12.060 Cara Naden: resource.
696 01:05:14.510 --> 01:05:15.140 Cllr Stuart Withington, Dunmow, Essex: Thanks.
697 01:05:33.030 --> 01:05:37.280 Ian Graham: I don't know if you're speaking, Graham, but what I think everybody's waiting on you to say something.
698 01:05:38.160 --> 01:05:39.429 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I was busy
699 01:05:39.580 --> 01:05:42.699 Graham Stoddart-Stones: muting myself because of an overflying helicopter
700 01:05:43.311 --> 01:05:54.150 Graham Stoddart-Stones: but hopefully, we're now back online. So I just wanted to say, thank you so much to to you, Ian, for the presentation, which was gleeful, I thought.
701 01:05:54.220 --> 01:05:57.390 Graham Stoddart-Stones: and thank you to all the contributions.
702 01:05:57.530 --> 01:06:00.339 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Kara. Thank you. Good to see you as as usual.
703 01:06:00.520 --> 01:06:08.589 Graham Stoddart-Stones: and with all those thoughts and links that you've got there. Thank you very much. Next week we're going to be talking about climate anxiety
704 01:06:08.930 --> 01:06:09.779 Graham Stoddart-Stones: from
705 01:06:10.660 --> 01:06:16.120 Graham Stoddart-Stones: a person who's going to be talking next week and then coming back a month later and and giving a different topic.
706 01:06:16.170 --> 01:06:20.429 Graham Stoddart-Stones: but from the same person. So I recommend that everyone gives that a try.
707 01:06:21.110 --> 01:06:25.110 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And thank you all for coming. I will put the
708 01:06:25.130 --> 01:06:34.150 Graham Stoddart-Stones: this session up on the wiki in due course, and that you will know when that happens, and in the meantime have a great rest of the week and see you next time.
709 01:06:34.520 --> 01:06:35.220 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Goodbye.
710 01:06:35.470 --> 01:06:35.920 tristram cary: Thank you.
711 01:06:36.292 --> 01:06:37.410 Ian Graham: You, bye, bye.
