# Banter 92: 22Oct25 Climate Café Listening Circles, with Linda Aspey {% embed url="" %} No video timeline this week - the whole session is the meeting, no sections involved *** ### Presentation: No presentation this session - everything takes place in the video *** ### Meeting Summary: Oct 22, 2025 11:57 AM London ID: 834 5460 8536 ### Quick recap The meeting began with Linda introducing and explaining the concept of Climate Cafes, which provide a confidential space for sharing and processing emotions related to climate change. The group discussed personal feelings about climate change and environmental issues, including nature-based activities and the transition away from fossil fuels. The session concluded with information about Climate Psychology Alliance's training program for Climate Cafe facilitators and an overview of upcoming workshops and projects, followed by an announcement of next week's meeting topic regarding parish response to local development plans. ### Next steps * [Ken: Put up a sign on the road verge to explain why it hasn't been trimmed and has been left as food for birds](https://us02tasks.zoom.us/?meetingId=BIcaSHz6Tky1bPVy7APYEg%3D%3D\&stepId=adae4281-af3e-11f0-afff-b2e310f527fb) * [Linda: Share the Climate Psychology Alliance website and information about training with participants](https://us02tasks.zoom.us/?meetingId=BIcaSHz6Tky1bPVy7APYEg%3D%3D\&stepId=adae4634-af3e-11f0-8fd3-b2e310f527fb) * [Linda: Share the blog article about Climate Cafes in the chat for participants to read or share with others](https://us02tasks.zoom.us/?meetingId=BIcaSHz6Tky1bPVy7APYEg%3D%3D\&stepId=adae47c2-af3e-11f0-9541-b2e310f527fb) * [Graham: Tell the new research person about how the session went](https://us02tasks.zoom.us/?meetingId=BIcaSHz6Tky1bPVy7APYEg%3D%3D\&stepId=adae4905-af3e-11f0-a28c-b2e310f527fb) ### Summary #### Climate Cafe Listening Circle Linda facilitated a discussion about climate emotions, introducing a mini Climate Cafe listening circle. She explained the format and purpose of the Cafe, which involves sharing feelings and experiences related to climate change in a confidential setting. Linda read a blog post describing a typical Cafe session and invited participants to join a mini version if interested. The session was recorded, except for the optional mini Cafe portion, which would not be recorded. #### Climate Cafes: Emotional Expression Linda explained the concept of Climate Cafes, which are listening circles focused on sharing and processing emotions related to climate change. She described how these cafes provide a space for people to express feelings that are often suppressed, such as fear, guilt, and hopelessness, without judgment or pressure to act. Linda emphasized the importance of allowing all emotions to be shared and highlighted how participants often leave feeling more engaged and motivated to take small actions in their communities. The session included a brief taster of a listening circle, followed by time for questions and reflections. #### Nature's Role in Climate Action Linda led a discussion about nature and climate change, sharing her realization that teasels provide food for birds and reflecting on her past habits. Graham mentioned a presentation where a community leader recruited 70 volunteers by focusing on nature projects. Jacky shared her experience of learning more about local birds, particularly swifts, and realizing how little she knew about nature in her own garden. The group discussed the universal appeal of nature-based activities and the potential for engaging people in environmental efforts through a focus on nature. #### Climate Change Emotional Perspectives The group discussed their personal feelings about climate change and environmental issues. Ken expressed his conflicted emotions about the effectiveness of individual actions in addressing climate change, while Penny shared her experience of emotional turmoil and the importance of perspective in managing difficult situations. Cllr. Stuart highlighted the challenge of engaging people on climate change due to its intangible nature and expressed frustration with political leaders for not adequately addressing the issue, particularly in relation to fossil fuel subsidies. #### Climate Transition and Energy Challenges The group discussed the transition away from fossil fuels and its impact on the climate. Stuart noted that countries like Saudi Arabia are investing in carbon capture technology to extend their fossil fuel operations, but acknowledged that fossil fuels will eventually run out. Nick shared his personal conflicts about eating meat and his efforts to reduce consumption, while Pam expressed frustration with the current system that supports fossil fuel and livestock industries. Frank encouraged the group to focus on their positive actions and share them with others, acknowledging the vastness of the climate change challenge. Stuart concluded by highlighting the paradox of increasing renewable energy adoption while CO2 emissions continue to rise globally. #### Cafe Session Wrap-Up Discussion The meeting focused on wrapping up a short cafe session, which was intended to be an hour and a half long but was accelerated due to time constraints. Linda explained the purpose and structure of the cafe, emphasizing its confidential nature and the importance of respecting the space by not sharing specific details from the discussions outside the session. She highlighted the benefits of the cafe, including the opportunity to connect with others, manage powerful emotions, and reduce psychological polarization. Linda also shared her personal experience of intellectualizing emotions in climate work, encouraging participants to stay with their feelings during the session. The conversation ended with Linda inviting questions or reflections from the participants. #### Climate Cafe Facilitator Training Overview Linda explained the Climate Psychology Alliance's training program for Climate Cafe Listening Circle facilitators, which has evolved from one to three sessions. She described the process, including attending a Climate Cafe, participating in training sessions, and starting their own cafes with supervision. Linda emphasized that anyone can join the CPA, regardless of their background, and highlighted the importance of developing skills for engaging with diverse perspectives in polarized communities. Graham raised a concern about how social media algorithms can contribute to extreme emotions by reinforcing biased views. #### Climate Support and Planning Initiatives Linda discussed the Climate Psychology Alliance's website and database of practitioners offering free sessions for climate-related emotions, as well as her coaching work and upcoming workshops. She introduced the Inner Climate Response Alliance (ICRA), a lottery-funded project partnering with the Climate Majority Project and Mindfulness Initiative to provide emotional support for climate action groups. Graham announced the topic for next week's meeting: parish response to local and neighbourhood plans. *** ### Chat: 00:04:19 Nik Mckiernan: Sorry just sorting my tech!\ 00:16:35 Ken Huggins north Dorset: \ 00:28:25 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yes, I have to go. *** ### Audio-transcript: 59\ 00:05:44.950 --> 00:05:57.990\ Linda Aspey: it's really love to see many people here, particularly given that this is what we're talking about, which is climate emotions. And what we thought we'd do today is I'll do a little bit of talking, first of all, a little mini presentation. 60\ 00:05:58.150 --> 00:06:04.699\ Linda Aspey: And then, for those of you who want to, we can do a mini Climate Cafe listening circle. 61\ 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:19.839\ Linda Aspey: Which means it won't be recorded, that bit won't be recorded, the first bit can be recorded, but if you want to stay… if nobody wants to do the mini cafe, because normally they are an hour and a half long, and all we'd get is the chance for a few people to say something about how they're feeling. 62\ 00:06:19.840 --> 00:06:28.250\ Linda Aspey: So it wouldn't be a full cafe experience, but, we can do, you know, 20 minutes of it or so, and see how we go. 63\ 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:42.889\ Linda Aspey: So it's completely up to you. If we do do the cafe, and you're able to, if you can have your cameras on, that's great, because a cafe is really about connection. But if it's not possible for you, that's fine too. 64\ 00:06:43.850 --> 00:06:50.389\ Linda Aspey: So what I'll do is, first of all, is invite anybody to, go on mute if you're not already on mute. 65\ 00:06:50.690 --> 00:06:56.059\ Linda Aspey: And we might just want to land for a moment. You probably just rushed from one meeting to another. 66\ 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:01.839\ Linda Aspey: And, you might just want to, I don't know, take a few breaths. 67\ 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:09.050\ Linda Aspey: And think about somewhere, perhaps in nature, that you really love to go to, that gives you that lovely sense of ease. 68\ 00:07:10.960 --> 00:07:12.770\ Linda Aspey: Just bring that to mind. 69\ 00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:32.800\ Linda Aspey: Lovely. 70\ 00:07:33.750 --> 00:07:39.959\ Linda Aspey: Just to land. So, yeah, so I'll talk a little bit about what a Climate Cafe Listening Circle is. 71\ 00:07:40.190 --> 00:07:50.419\ Linda Aspey: A bit of background about me, if you didn't know, I've been coming to some of these events, they're wonderful events. I'm a psychotherapeutic counsellor. 72\ 00:07:50.640 --> 00:07:52.999\ Linda Aspey: And a coach, and a facilitator. 73\ 00:07:53.010 --> 00:08:08.610\ Linda Aspey: And, I've been doing this work… well, I've been doing that kind of work for around 35 years. I run a company called Asby Associates, and work a lot with leaders and teams and groups and individuals, and I do psychotherapeutic coaching, which is a sort of blend between therapy and coaching. 74\ 00:08:08.610 --> 00:08:13.210\ Linda Aspey: As well as standard executive coaching, and leadership development, and things like that. 75\ 00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:25.490\ Linda Aspey: And in the last 8 years, I've become very involved in climate change, as an activist, as someone supporting activists, doing, listening circles and debriefing circles and things like that. 76\ 00:08:25.530 --> 00:08:29.300\ Pam Rosling: And I'm also on the board of the Climate Psychology Alliance. 77\ 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:42.179\ Linda Aspey: And we're a membership organization, and, designed, really, to help us to confront some of the emotional, psychological aspects of climate change, and everything that goes with that term, climate change. 78\ 00:08:42.309 --> 00:08:48.070\ Linda Aspey: And one of the things that evolved from the work of the Climate Psychology Alliance was Climate Cafe Listening Circles. 79\ 00:08:49.270 --> 00:08:56.239\ Linda Aspey: And what I thought I'd do is actually read you a bit of a blog that I'd written about A Climate Cafe Listening Circle to set the scene. 80\ 00:08:56.490 --> 00:09:02.730\ Linda Aspey: And then I can explain a bit more about how they work, and then if, for those who want to stay, we can go into a mini one. 81\ 00:09:05.170 --> 00:09:09.470\ Linda Aspey: It's 10.30 on a Saturday morning, and the room is filling up. 82\ 00:09:10.390 --> 00:09:14.040\ Linda Aspey: Two young women who arrive alone are helping themselves to tea. 83\ 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:20.709\ Linda Aspey: An elderly woman, walking with a stick, introduced herself as Anna, a refugee from Ukraine. 84\ 00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:25.869\ Linda Aspey: A young man with headphones and a hoodie comes in and sits in the circle. 85\ 00:09:26.250 --> 00:09:30.979\ Linda Aspey: Next to another young man who's already seated, silently scrolling on his phone. 86\ 00:09:31.870 --> 00:09:33.380\ Linda Aspey: They nod to each other. 87\ 00:09:34.550 --> 00:09:36.450\ Linda Aspey: A middle-aged couple enter. 88\ 00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:38.890\ Linda Aspey: And head over to the refreshments table. 89\ 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:40.889\ Linda Aspey: He's pleased to see there's cake. 90\ 00:09:41.800 --> 00:09:45.610\ Linda Aspey: Well, this is strange, isn't it, coming to talk to strangers? 91\ 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:53.390\ Linda Aspey: There are now 8 people, plus 2 of us facilitators. Sometimes more people come, sometimes less. 92\ 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.599\ Linda Aspey: In the center of the room, we've placed chairs into a circle around a low table. 93\ 00:09:59.870 --> 00:10:01.639\ Linda Aspey: On which is a wooden bowl. 94\ 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:03.890\ Linda Aspey: Filled with natural items. 95\ 00:10:04.430 --> 00:10:05.520\ Linda Aspey: Leaves. 96\ 00:10:06.580 --> 00:10:08.600\ Linda Aspey: I like an encrusted twig. 97\ 00:10:09.040 --> 00:10:10.390\ Linda Aspey: A black feather. 98\ 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:14.280\ Linda Aspey: Stones. Dried flower heads. Acorns. 99\ 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:19.709\ Linda Aspey: My co-facilitator invites those still standing to take a seat in the circle. 100\ 00:10:20.980 --> 00:10:24.740\ Linda Aspey: One young woman offers to move the extra seats aside if we don't need them. 101\ 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:28.709\ Linda Aspey: And helps Anna wobble down to her chair. 102\ 00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:30.000\ Linda Aspey: We thank her. 103\ 00:10:31.630 --> 00:10:34.990\ Linda Aspey: The couple, the middle-aged couple, sit together, chatting quietly. 104\ 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:41.399\ Linda Aspey: My co-facilitator closes the main door, which has a Please Do Not Disturb sign on it. 105\ 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:44.920\ Linda Aspey: The room quietens, and I welcome everyone. 106\ 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:50.509\ Linda Aspey: We introduce ourselves, my co-facilitator and I, 107\ 00:10:50.660 --> 00:10:55.790\ Linda Aspey: We explain the format, and we ask for agreements to listen, Respect differences. 108\ 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:58.239\ Linda Aspey: And keep discussions confidential. 109\ 00:10:59.140 --> 00:11:01.250\ Linda Aspey: This is not a space for action. 110\ 00:11:01.390 --> 00:11:03.129\ Linda Aspey: But for exploring feelings. 111\ 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:11.109\ Linda Aspey: There is a sense of expectation, although that could just be me feeling that something important is waiting to emerge. 112\ 00:11:12.670 --> 00:11:17.609\ Linda Aspey: To begin, I pick up the glistening black feather. 113\ 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:23.319\ Linda Aspey: Sharing how it connects me to my love for wildlife. 114\ 00:11:23.790 --> 00:11:26.790\ Linda Aspey: And my grief over declining bird populations. 115\ 00:11:28.150 --> 00:11:34.060\ Linda Aspey: I speak of feeling sad that the dawn chorus seems muted from how I remember it some years ago. 116\ 00:11:34.460 --> 00:11:36.520\ Linda Aspey: And my guilt about having cats. 117\ 00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:38.930\ Linda Aspey: That occasionally catch birds. 118\ 00:11:40.430 --> 00:11:42.749\ Linda Aspey: Others listen intently. 119\ 00:11:43.060 --> 00:11:45.559\ Linda Aspey: Some appear moved by my words. 120\ 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:54.049\ Linda Aspey: After around 3 minutes, I place the feather back into the bowl, And invite anyone else. 121\ 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:57.770\ Linda Aspey: Who wants to make a connection, or select an item. 122\ 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:02.040\ Linda Aspey: One by one, participants speak. 123\ 00:12:02.900 --> 00:12:05.179\ Linda Aspey: Listened to without interruption. 124\ 00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:11.210\ Linda Aspey: For some, their chosen object immediately brings feelings or a story to mind. 125\ 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:14.640\ Linda Aspey: One of the young men doesn't take an object. 126\ 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.710\ Linda Aspey: Instead, telling us about a walk he went on earlier that day along the beach. 127\ 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.269\ Linda Aspey: And how outraged and helpless. 128\ 00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:24.969\ Linda Aspey: He felt on seeing litter everywhere. 129\ 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:28.390\ Linda Aspey: Several people nod intently. 130\ 00:12:29.790 --> 00:12:33.710\ Linda Aspey: After a second round, where some resonate with what others have shared. 131\ 00:12:34.170 --> 00:12:36.070\ Linda Aspey: Or they tell a new story. 132\ 00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:39.850\ Linda Aspey: We close, offering further support if needed. 133\ 00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:41.840\ Linda Aspey: Some take a leaflet. 134\ 00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:47.129\ Linda Aspey: Once everyone leaves, my co-facilitator and I take time to reflect. 135\ 00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:49.739\ Linda Aspey: Before heading our separate ways. 136\ 00:12:54.290 --> 00:12:58.050\ Linda Aspey: So, has anyone here been to a Climate Cafe listening circle? 137\ 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:01.479\ Linda Aspey: Yeah, Penny, you have. 138\ 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.819\ Linda Aspey: Does that describe anything like your experience of it? 139\ 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:10.919\ Penny Q - Weymouth: I… I actually facilitate one, Linda, 140\ 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:17.830\ Penny Q - Weymouth: Yes, it does, although we are a group of people that mainly know each other. 141\ 00:13:18.230 --> 00:13:22.479\ Penny Q - Weymouth: it's not closed, but yeah, so I'm interested in understanding 142\ 00:13:23.070 --> 00:13:27.109\ Penny Q - Weymouth: How we might grow it in a different way, and maybe set up another one. 143\ 00:13:27.380 --> 00:13:29.029\ Linda Aspey: Yeah, yeah, great. 144\ 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:37.179\ Linda Aspey: Great. Well, I'll tell you a little bit more about them. I mean, cafes, climate cafes, as we know, they're all… they exist all over the world in various formats. 145\ 00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:47.320\ Linda Aspey: Some are serving as hubs for local action groups. Some are, you know, come along, we're going to do some posters, we're going to get ready for a march, we're all going to have a guest speaker. 146\ 00:13:47.550 --> 00:13:53.840\ Linda Aspey: to talk to us about it, and then we have tea and cake, and a cup of coffee and stuff, and that's a Climate Cafe. 147\ 00:13:54.230 --> 00:14:03.419\ Linda Aspey: At the Climate Psychology Alliance, we, in the last year, when I took over the lead role of looking after Climate Cafe facilitation and training and supervision. 148\ 00:14:03.550 --> 00:14:12.540\ Linda Aspey: From Rebecca Nestor, who co-designed the model we have now, or the original model. We've since adapted that model and extended it differently. 149\ 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:22.100\ Linda Aspey: So we very much focused on listening circles, because whilst there's some fantastic things going on and great spaces to do stuff together. 150\ 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:29.859\ Linda Aspey: Often, the focus is so much on doing stuff that the feelings don't get verbalized or even metabolized. 151\ 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:34.039\ Linda Aspey: And, in a way, what happens in mainstream society. 152\ 00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:38.740\ Linda Aspey: Is that our feelings about what's happening just don't have a space, often. 153\ 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.760\ Linda Aspey: We call it socially constructed silence. 154\ 00:14:42.300 --> 00:14:52.109\ Linda Aspey: There's a socially constructive silence around the enormity of what's happening, so we don't talk about it in the way… unless we talk about it related to a solution, often. 155\ 00:14:54.140 --> 00:15:01.119\ Linda Aspey: So these are spaces just for feeling and sharing those feelings, developed by Rebecca and Gillian Broad. 156\ 00:15:01.520 --> 00:15:10.010\ Linda Aspey: From the CPA. And actually, we don't tend to publicize this too much, but just so you know the roots of it, they were inspired by the Death Cafe model. 157\ 00:15:11.140 --> 00:15:14.469\ Linda Aspey: Because death is a similar kind of set of taboos. 158\ 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.669\ Linda Aspey: That people don't really talk about death until it happens. 159\ 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:23.940\ Linda Aspey: And so this is a way of being able to express and articulate how we feel. 160\ 00:15:24.780 --> 00:15:35.680\ Linda Aspey: So it's really important, psychologically and emotionally speaking, that we do find ways to do these things, and we don't have any talks, we don't have any advice, and we don't have any pressure to act. 161\ 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:43.629\ Linda Aspey: You know, there's no expectation that people are going to join, or come back, or sign up to anything, or to promise to do anything. 162\ 00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:47.970\ Linda Aspey: It caused the relief at just going somewhere and saying, you know, this is how I feel. 163\ 00:15:49.010 --> 00:15:53.149\ Linda Aspey: So the circles, they welcome all kinds of emotions. We don't know what's going to come. 164\ 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:57.049\ Linda Aspey: Those can be anything from, you know, fear. 165\ 00:15:57.150 --> 00:16:01.240\ Linda Aspey: ambivalence, you know, I know I've got to change my life and I don't want to. 166\ 00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:11.040\ Linda Aspey: I've got children that I want to travel, I want them to have the opportunity that I had, and I'm feeling guilty about them going on flights, some of those things. 167\ 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.369\ Linda Aspey: Shame about what we've done. Sometimes hope. 168\ 00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:18.550\ Linda Aspey: Often a lot of love for nature. 169\ 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:33.180\ Linda Aspey: And tenderness, people often talk about tenderness, and what often arises, too, is numbness. You know, I don't feel anything, and I think I feel I should, but I don't feel anything, and I'm finding it hard to connect with what's going on, so I find it easier not to. 170\ 00:16:33.770 --> 00:16:44.070\ Linda Aspey: So many of these emotions that we have and hear in cafes are actually deemed taboo by society. We even have a word for… we call them negative emotions. 171\ 00:16:44.530 --> 00:16:48.509\ Linda Aspey: It's just astonishing how psychology has called things negative. 172\ 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:55.759\ Linda Aspey: sources of information, they're valid feelings. No wonder we've got a repressed nation in many ways. 173\ 00:16:56.290 --> 00:17:07.810\ Linda Aspey: So these… and so in many… and in many cultures, you know, and societies, and including in many parts of the UK, and certainly in political spheres. 174\ 00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:14.099\ Linda Aspey: Denial and disavowal are quite common, so denial is saying it's not happening. 175\ 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:26.190\ Linda Aspey: Disavowal is knowing it's happening, and not knowing it's happening, so it's… I'm juggling those two parts in your mind at the same time. I know it's going on, and I'm just gonna carry on as normal and pretend it's not. 176\ 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:36.750\ Linda Aspey: We also often can morph into, when we try to talk about climate emotions, we can morph into something that's often called toxic positivity. 177\ 00:17:37.110 --> 00:17:38.270\ Linda Aspey: Or hopian. 178\ 00:17:38.590 --> 00:17:49.969\ Linda Aspey: It'll be fine, we'll fix it, tech will save us. I work with somebody on a council that regularly says tech will save us, and I say, which tech is that, then? And for which of these multiple problems we have? 179\ 00:17:50.150 --> 00:17:52.049\ Linda Aspey: And they don't really have an answer. 180\ 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:58.030\ Linda Aspey: But that's just their way of them alleviating any pain they might be feeling, perhaps. 181\ 00:17:59.170 --> 00:18:08.330\ Linda Aspey: So what often happens is, people in society, mainstream, people polarize, and that happens too in climate cafes. We might have someone saying, it's all dreadful. 182\ 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:16.270\ Linda Aspey: And might have someone saying, we will be fine, I have a lot of confidence. So, it's allowing all of those without judgment to surface. 183\ 00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:28.639\ Linda Aspey: So, just something else about socially constructed silence. What we often… this is an idea that it's a conscious, unconscious collective… 184\ 00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:36.529\ Linda Aspey: process, really, that's happening, is that something's difficult to talk about, Individually and collectively. 185\ 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:41.090\ Linda Aspey: And so, we don't talk about it, and society makes it hard to, like any taboo. 186\ 00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:53.619\ Linda Aspey: And what happens with that is another interesting phenomena, is that if you're not talking about it, if society doesn't talk about climate in the way that… unless they're talking about it being full of, you know, we can solve it. 187\ 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:55.729\ Linda Aspey: We don't think about it either. 188\ 00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:07.819\ Linda Aspey: So the suppression of talking leads to the suppression of thinking. So it kind of explains why, or partly explains why large swathes of society are walking around as if nothing's happening. 189\ 00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:15.879\ Linda Aspey: And understanding this myself a few years ago made me a lot more compassionate about people who weren't kind of getting it, because 190\ 00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:30.969\ Linda Aspey: People often bring rage to the cafes. Why? Why is nobody talking about… why aren't they getting it? Why aren't they seeing how serious it is? Why are they still consuming and spending and wasting and… So you get a lot of that frustration. 191\ 00:19:32.770 --> 00:19:34.040\ Linda Aspey: So… 192\ 00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:41.719\ Linda Aspey: As climate impacts become undeniable, more and more people are breaking out of this climate bubble, and they have nowhere to put their feelings. 193\ 00:19:42.130 --> 00:19:44.560\ Linda Aspey: Or limited spaces. 194\ 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:55.689\ Linda Aspey: So that's what these cafes offer, is this absolute relief, and it's a universal word. Every cafe I've ever facilitated, people say it's just such a relief. 195\ 00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:05.969\ Linda Aspey: So, many people come and express inadequacy, including just feeling they're not doing enough, and that includes people who've been imprisoned for activism. 196\ 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:07.930\ Linda Aspey: We still don't feel they're doing enough. 197\ 00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:18.910\ Linda Aspey: So the enormity of this crisis can make us feel really small, and it challenges, as well, any predetermined assumptions we had about control over our lives. 198\ 00:20:19.810 --> 00:20:22.959\ Linda Aspey: Because this is something that's very hard to control. 199\ 00:20:23.470 --> 00:20:37.210\ Linda Aspey: And people come along, and they do think they lament the futility of recycling when they know that, you know, it's just all getting put into the trash somewhere else, and it's going… being delivered around the world. So, some of those things happen. 200\ 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:42.530\ Linda Aspey: And there's often anger. People talk about businesses who greenwash. 201\ 00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:49.869\ Linda Aspey: Claiming to do better for the planet. So there's a lot of roads that's often directed at, at greenwashing attempts. 202\ 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:53.849\ Linda Aspey: People increasingly come along and talk about collapse. 203\ 00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:07.360\ Linda Aspey: And the first time that happened in a group, I was facilitating it, and I thought, oh, crikey, I hope this isn't really going to upset people, because talking about climate change is one thing, talking about collapse takes it into a sort of different space. 204\ 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:11.219\ Linda Aspey: And what was interesting was how many people said, yeah, I thought that too. 205\ 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:13.829\ Linda Aspey: But I haven't been able to say it before. 206\ 00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:21.639\ Linda Aspey: Some say they've given up, there's nothing they can do, and they've just come along to see if they can feel a little bit better today. 207\ 00:21:22.510 --> 00:21:25.399\ Linda Aspey: Because they see a predicament with no solution. 208\ 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:36.040\ Linda Aspey: And so they might even… they might even say, well, I might as well do the hell what I like. I might as well go on all of those trips, and those cruises, and those holidays, and eat as much steak as I want. 209\ 00:21:36.830 --> 00:21:43.649\ Linda Aspey: But actually, what's very interesting is once people have said how awful they feel, and how conflicted they feel. 210\ 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:57.349\ Linda Aspey: And how futile they feel. By the end of the cafe, they often say, do you know what I am going to do? I'm gonna… I'm gonna get a bit involved in my local group. Won't hurt, will it? I might go and do a litter pick. It might not make any difference, but I think it'll help. 211\ 00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:06.460\ Linda Aspey: So, those are some of the things that people bring, and they bring everyday dilemmas, too. They, you know, how do I stay in this job? 212\ 00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:11.190\ Linda Aspey: When I'm destroying stuff, when I'm selling rubbish to people. 213\ 00:22:12.270 --> 00:22:16.499\ Linda Aspey: If I leave an industry, do I abandon the chance to change it from the inside? 214\ 00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:22.830\ Linda Aspey: But do I go somewhere else and accept, often in sustainability jobs, much, much less money? 215\ 00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:27.989\ Linda Aspey: You know, what do I do? So, everything comes, just everything, it's… 216\ 00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:35.110\ Linda Aspey: And in, sort of, 7 years of running them now, and being in them, and teaching them, nothing kind of surprises me anymore. 217\ 00:22:35.310 --> 00:22:40.020\ Linda Aspey: But the one thing that's just the universal feeling is relief. 218\ 00:22:40.490 --> 00:22:44.430\ Linda Aspey: And, you know, stop feeling so alone with their feelings. 219\ 00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:50.210\ Linda Aspey: So, what it does actually help is 220\ 00:22:50.370 --> 00:23:07.339\ Linda Aspey: speaking feelings aloud seems to bring some kind of acceptance, and it's not a resigned… it's not often a resigned giving up kind of acceptance. It's not… it's not that end of, you know, it's all shit anyway, so what's the point? There does some… seem to be some refueling of agency. 221\ 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:15.059\ Linda Aspey: And because we don't put pressure on people, saying, okay, sign up, you can come to the next meeting, or join your local group of something here. 222\ 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:21.399\ Linda Aspey: when we meet people again, if they do come back, they say, oh, I did, I looked at my local group, and I did some things, or I went… 223\ 00:23:21.590 --> 00:23:28.489\ Linda Aspey: I went on a tree planting group, and they might be small things, but it's moved them from paralysed… 224\ 00:23:29.610 --> 00:23:34.670\ Linda Aspey: And often deep… often really quite depressed, to a just a different state. 225\ 00:23:35.370 --> 00:23:52.800\ Linda Aspey: And also, they've named forbidden thoughts sometimes, so sometimes people say things, you know, that they can share really quite dark feelings about their grandchildren and things like that, or their children, and the lives they have, and it's… that's really taboo in many places to talk about that, so… 226\ 00:23:53.050 --> 00:23:56.870\ Linda Aspey: Because they've been given permission to do that, that's what they… what can happen. 227\ 00:23:57.950 --> 00:24:06.970\ Linda Aspey: A phenomenon that can often happen when a young… our cafes run for 18-year-olds plus, or 16 with a caring parent or guardian. 228\ 00:24:08.100 --> 00:24:14.819\ Linda Aspey: But we do have youth groups as well, we have youth spaces and youth circles, and it always has to be age-appropriate. 229\ 00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:21.239\ Linda Aspey: But what we find is when young people, younger people are in the group, and other members of the group are much older. 230\ 00:24:21.370 --> 00:24:26.969\ Linda Aspey: That can be, quite difficult, because people feel really bad for the young person present. 231\ 00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:32.630\ Linda Aspey: And they kind of… they can either dump it all on the young person, say, well, you know, it's up to you to fix it now. 232\ 00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:43.599\ Linda Aspey: Or they just talk about how bad they feel, or they overly praise young people. They say, oh, you're actually… you're marvellous, you young people, what you're doing. So, you kind of manage that as facilitators. 233\ 00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:53.649\ Linda Aspey: So, hearing people struggle with same dilemmas often helps. Hearing people struggle about to fly or not, to eat meat, whatever, you know, that seems to help. 234\ 00:24:53.940 --> 00:25:10.440\ Linda Aspey: And it certainly opens the door, when they leave, to having better productive conversations with family and friends. Doesn't mean to say they're gonna go straight out and be fluent in having climate conversations, but even telling a friend, I've been to a climate cafe listening circle. 235\ 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:12.630\ Linda Aspey: And it was really helpful. 236\ 00:25:12.830 --> 00:25:15.100\ Linda Aspey: It was… that sort of spreads the word. 237\ 00:25:15.470 --> 00:25:18.550\ Linda Aspey: So, whilst they're not therapy, they seem to be therapeutic. 238\ 00:25:19.780 --> 00:25:25.230\ Linda Aspey: So talking and sharing, strengthens connection, and it helps people to stay awake to reality. 239\ 00:25:25.390 --> 00:25:27.110\ Linda Aspey: Without being overwhelmed. 240\ 00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:34.080\ Linda Aspey: Because it's ritualistic, it's sitting in a circle with objects of nature, other parts of nature. 241\ 00:25:34.310 --> 00:25:38.069\ Linda Aspey: It sort of offers a pathway to some kind of deeper conversation. 242\ 00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:50.710\ Linda Aspey: And it normalizes. Really important skill of any therapist, if anyone's ever had the chance to have some therapy, the normalizing aspect is just wonderful. Someone says, yeah, I understand you feel that way. 243\ 00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:55.210\ Linda Aspey: Rather than, I'm wrong to feel like this, or I'm ashamed of how I feel. 244\ 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:01.509\ Linda Aspey: And so, while there's no expectation of action, people generally leave feeling a lot more engaged. 245\ 00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:12.909\ Linda Aspey: And it's neither therapy group, nor is it a completely informal group. People don't just drop in. We can't have that. That would make it very difficult to manage all of the comings and goings. 246\ 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:22.039\ Linda Aspey: So it's a hybrid, and it's not perfect. Things go wrong, people leave occasionally, but… and that's why we always have two facilitators. 247\ 00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:25.439\ Linda Aspey: I'm not having two here today, simply for this, but… 248\ 00:26:26.360 --> 00:26:31.630\ Linda Aspey: And as one person said at the close of the session, said, it was really good to be real today. 249\ 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.220\ Linda Aspey: Even if just for this time alone. 250\ 00:26:37.270 --> 00:26:52.929\ Linda Aspey: So, our Climate Cafe listening circle's open to anybody. We have them online. People like Penny do them around the country, in their local groups, for small communities, small and closed communities, closed… always, well, people who regularly come, sometimes they're one-off. 251\ 00:26:53.510 --> 00:27:04.780\ Linda Aspey: We run ours online… I run mine online, and we… we run at Climate Psychology Alliance, we run training for people to facilitate them, and since I've taken 252\ 00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:13.369\ Linda Aspey: Since I've taken over, since I've taken the lead on training, we've evolved our model to be a longer training, so that people get more understanding about how to facilitate well. 253\ 00:27:13.810 --> 00:27:24.990\ Linda Aspey: And also, what's really important for me is that these are not in the hands of psychologists or therapists. These are listening spaces held by citizens for citizens. 254\ 00:27:25.110 --> 00:27:38.510\ Linda Aspey: So, once someone's done the training, I mean, they can do it without the training, but we offer training, low-cost training, to any community group or any individual without any therapy or psychology training to hold a decent listening space. 255\ 00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:42.810\ Linda Aspey: By citizens, for citizens. 256\ 00:27:44.110 --> 00:27:45.559\ Linda Aspey: So I'll stop there. 257\ 00:27:46.270 --> 00:27:53.240\ Linda Aspey: And I'm gonna suggest we make a choice now. Who would like to actually take part in a small listening circle for a while? 258\ 00:27:53.540 --> 00:28:04.679\ Linda Aspey: We have raised hands, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Lovely! If you would like to stay, and we'll do that, and if you wouldn't like to do one, because we can't have observers. 259\ 00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:10.130\ Linda Aspey: I'm gonna invite you to… to leave, and then you can see the recording afterwards. 260\ 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:17.640\ Linda Aspey: Before you… if anyone… is anyone leaving? I don't want to put you on the spot, it's a horrible thing, but does anyone need to leave, and not… not be part of this? 261\ 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:19.920\ Linda Aspey: Alright. 262\ 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:27.519\ Linda Aspey: And, I'm hoping that we just do, say, we'll just do… we'll just do a… you have to go, okay, thanks, Gary. 263\ 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:32.710\ Linda Aspey: If you have any questions about them afterwards, because we're not… we're not going to do a… 264\ 00:28:32.970 --> 00:28:38.269\ Linda Aspey: We might have 10… we'll have 5 minutes at the end for questions, but if they haven't been answered, then you can contact me directly. 265\ 00:28:38.270 --> 00:28:40.550\ Jacky Lawrence, Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire: I see it's still recording, though. 266\ 00:28:40.550 --> 00:28:42.679\ Linda Aspey: Yeah, we're gonna stop the recording now.
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