Banter 92: 22Oct25 Climate Café Listening Circles, with Linda Aspey
Linda introduces and explains the concept of Climate Cafes, which provide a confidential space for sharing and processing emotions related to climate change. A Listening Circle is held (not recorded).
No video timeline this week - the whole session is the meeting, no sections involved
Presentation:
No presentation this session - everything takes place in the video
Meeting Summary:
Oct 22, 2025 11:57 AM London ID: 834 5460 8536
Quick recap
The meeting began with Linda introducing and explaining the concept of Climate Cafes, which provide a confidential space for sharing and processing emotions related to climate change. The group discussed personal feelings about climate change and environmental issues, including nature-based activities and the transition away from fossil fuels. The session concluded with information about Climate Psychology Alliance's training program for Climate Cafe facilitators and an overview of upcoming workshops and projects, followed by an announcement of next week's meeting topic regarding parish response to local development plans.
Next steps
Summary
Climate Cafe Listening Circle
Linda facilitated a discussion about climate emotions, introducing a mini Climate Cafe listening circle. She explained the format and purpose of the Cafe, which involves sharing feelings and experiences related to climate change in a confidential setting. Linda read a blog post describing a typical Cafe session and invited participants to join a mini version if interested. The session was recorded, except for the optional mini Cafe portion, which would not be recorded.
Climate Cafes: Emotional Expression
Linda explained the concept of Climate Cafes, which are listening circles focused on sharing and processing emotions related to climate change. She described how these cafes provide a space for people to express feelings that are often suppressed, such as fear, guilt, and hopelessness, without judgment or pressure to act. Linda emphasized the importance of allowing all emotions to be shared and highlighted how participants often leave feeling more engaged and motivated to take small actions in their communities. The session included a brief taster of a listening circle, followed by time for questions and reflections.
Nature's Role in Climate Action
Linda led a discussion about nature and climate change, sharing her realization that teasels provide food for birds and reflecting on her past habits. Graham mentioned a presentation where a community leader recruited 70 volunteers by focusing on nature projects. Jacky shared her experience of learning more about local birds, particularly swifts, and realizing how little she knew about nature in her own garden. The group discussed the universal appeal of nature-based activities and the potential for engaging people in environmental efforts through a focus on nature.
Climate Change Emotional Perspectives
The group discussed their personal feelings about climate change and environmental issues. Ken expressed his conflicted emotions about the effectiveness of individual actions in addressing climate change, while Penny shared her experience of emotional turmoil and the importance of perspective in managing difficult situations. Cllr. Stuart highlighted the challenge of engaging people on climate change due to its intangible nature and expressed frustration with political leaders for not adequately addressing the issue, particularly in relation to fossil fuel subsidies.
Climate Transition and Energy Challenges
The group discussed the transition away from fossil fuels and its impact on the climate. Stuart noted that countries like Saudi Arabia are investing in carbon capture technology to extend their fossil fuel operations, but acknowledged that fossil fuels will eventually run out. Nick shared his personal conflicts about eating meat and his efforts to reduce consumption, while Pam expressed frustration with the current system that supports fossil fuel and livestock industries. Frank encouraged the group to focus on their positive actions and share them with others, acknowledging the vastness of the climate change challenge. Stuart concluded by highlighting the paradox of increasing renewable energy adoption while CO2 emissions continue to rise globally.
Cafe Session Wrap-Up Discussion
The meeting focused on wrapping up a short cafe session, which was intended to be an hour and a half long but was accelerated due to time constraints. Linda explained the purpose and structure of the cafe, emphasizing its confidential nature and the importance of respecting the space by not sharing specific details from the discussions outside the session. She highlighted the benefits of the cafe, including the opportunity to connect with others, manage powerful emotions, and reduce psychological polarization. Linda also shared her personal experience of intellectualizing emotions in climate work, encouraging participants to stay with their feelings during the session. The conversation ended with Linda inviting questions or reflections from the participants.
Climate Cafe Facilitator Training Overview
Linda explained the Climate Psychology Alliance's training program for Climate Cafe Listening Circle facilitators, which has evolved from one to three sessions. She described the process, including attending a Climate Cafe, participating in training sessions, and starting their own cafes with supervision. Linda emphasized that anyone can join the CPA, regardless of their background, and highlighted the importance of developing skills for engaging with diverse perspectives in polarized communities. Graham raised a concern about how social media algorithms can contribute to extreme emotions by reinforcing biased views.
Climate Support and Planning Initiatives
Linda discussed the Climate Psychology Alliance's website and database of practitioners offering free sessions for climate-related emotions, as well as her coaching work and upcoming workshops. She introduced the Inner Climate Response Alliance (ICRA), a lottery-funded project partnering with the Climate Majority Project and Mindfulness Initiative to provide emotional support for climate action groups. Graham announced the topic for next week's meeting: parish response to local and neighbourhood plans.
Chat:
00:04:19 Nik Mckiernan: Sorry just sorting my tech! 00:16:35 Ken Huggins north Dorset: https://www.climatepsychologyalliance.org/ 00:28:25 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yes, I have to go.
Audio-transcript:
59 00:05:44.950 --> 00:05:57.990 Linda Aspey: it's really love to see many people here, particularly given that this is what we're talking about, which is climate emotions. And what we thought we'd do today is I'll do a little bit of talking, first of all, a little mini presentation.
60 00:05:58.150 --> 00:06:04.699 Linda Aspey: And then, for those of you who want to, we can do a mini Climate Cafe listening circle.
61 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:19.839 Linda Aspey: Which means it won't be recorded, that bit won't be recorded, the first bit can be recorded, but if you want to stay… if nobody wants to do the mini cafe, because normally they are an hour and a half long, and all we'd get is the chance for a few people to say something about how they're feeling.
62 00:06:19.840 --> 00:06:28.250 Linda Aspey: So it wouldn't be a full cafe experience, but, we can do, you know, 20 minutes of it or so, and see how we go.
63 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:42.889 Linda Aspey: So it's completely up to you. If we do do the cafe, and you're able to, if you can have your cameras on, that's great, because a cafe is really about connection. But if it's not possible for you, that's fine too.
64 00:06:43.850 --> 00:06:50.389 Linda Aspey: So what I'll do is, first of all, is invite anybody to, go on mute if you're not already on mute.
65 00:06:50.690 --> 00:06:56.059 Linda Aspey: And we might just want to land for a moment. You probably just rushed from one meeting to another.
66 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:01.839 Linda Aspey: And, you might just want to, I don't know, take a few breaths.
67 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:09.050 Linda Aspey: And think about somewhere, perhaps in nature, that you really love to go to, that gives you that lovely sense of ease.
68 00:07:10.960 --> 00:07:12.770 Linda Aspey: Just bring that to mind.
69 00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:32.800 Linda Aspey: Lovely.
70 00:07:33.750 --> 00:07:39.959 Linda Aspey: Just to land. So, yeah, so I'll talk a little bit about what a Climate Cafe Listening Circle is.
71 00:07:40.190 --> 00:07:50.419 Linda Aspey: A bit of background about me, if you didn't know, I've been coming to some of these events, they're wonderful events. I'm a psychotherapeutic counsellor.
72 00:07:50.640 --> 00:07:52.999 Linda Aspey: And a coach, and a facilitator.
73 00:07:53.010 --> 00:08:08.610 Linda Aspey: And, I've been doing this work… well, I've been doing that kind of work for around 35 years. I run a company called Asby Associates, and work a lot with leaders and teams and groups and individuals, and I do psychotherapeutic coaching, which is a sort of blend between therapy and coaching.
74 00:08:08.610 --> 00:08:13.210 Linda Aspey: As well as standard executive coaching, and leadership development, and things like that.
75 00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:25.490 Linda Aspey: And in the last 8 years, I've become very involved in climate change, as an activist, as someone supporting activists, doing, listening circles and debriefing circles and things like that.
76 00:08:25.530 --> 00:08:29.300 Pam Rosling: And I'm also on the board of the Climate Psychology Alliance.
77 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:42.179 Linda Aspey: And we're a membership organization, and, designed, really, to help us to confront some of the emotional, psychological aspects of climate change, and everything that goes with that term, climate change.
78 00:08:42.309 --> 00:08:48.070 Linda Aspey: And one of the things that evolved from the work of the Climate Psychology Alliance was Climate Cafe Listening Circles.
79 00:08:49.270 --> 00:08:56.239 Linda Aspey: And what I thought I'd do is actually read you a bit of a blog that I'd written about A Climate Cafe Listening Circle to set the scene.
80 00:08:56.490 --> 00:09:02.730 Linda Aspey: And then I can explain a bit more about how they work, and then if, for those who want to stay, we can go into a mini one.
81 00:09:05.170 --> 00:09:09.470 Linda Aspey: It's 10.30 on a Saturday morning, and the room is filling up.
82 00:09:10.390 --> 00:09:14.040 Linda Aspey: Two young women who arrive alone are helping themselves to tea.
83 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:20.709 Linda Aspey: An elderly woman, walking with a stick, introduced herself as Anna, a refugee from Ukraine.
84 00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:25.869 Linda Aspey: A young man with headphones and a hoodie comes in and sits in the circle.
85 00:09:26.250 --> 00:09:30.979 Linda Aspey: Next to another young man who's already seated, silently scrolling on his phone.
86 00:09:31.870 --> 00:09:33.380 Linda Aspey: They nod to each other.
87 00:09:34.550 --> 00:09:36.450 Linda Aspey: A middle-aged couple enter.
88 00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:38.890 Linda Aspey: And head over to the refreshments table.
89 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:40.889 Linda Aspey: He's pleased to see there's cake.
90 00:09:41.800 --> 00:09:45.610 Linda Aspey: Well, this is strange, isn't it, coming to talk to strangers?
91 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:53.390 Linda Aspey: There are now 8 people, plus 2 of us facilitators. Sometimes more people come, sometimes less.
92 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.599 Linda Aspey: In the center of the room, we've placed chairs into a circle around a low table.
93 00:09:59.870 --> 00:10:01.639 Linda Aspey: On which is a wooden bowl.
94 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:03.890 Linda Aspey: Filled with natural items.
95 00:10:04.430 --> 00:10:05.520 Linda Aspey: Leaves.
96 00:10:06.580 --> 00:10:08.600 Linda Aspey: I like an encrusted twig.
97 00:10:09.040 --> 00:10:10.390 Linda Aspey: A black feather.
98 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:14.280 Linda Aspey: Stones. Dried flower heads. Acorns.
99 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:19.709 Linda Aspey: My co-facilitator invites those still standing to take a seat in the circle.
100 00:10:20.980 --> 00:10:24.740 Linda Aspey: One young woman offers to move the extra seats aside if we don't need them.
101 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:28.709 Linda Aspey: And helps Anna wobble down to her chair.
102 00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:30.000 Linda Aspey: We thank her.
103 00:10:31.630 --> 00:10:34.990 Linda Aspey: The couple, the middle-aged couple, sit together, chatting quietly.
104 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:41.399 Linda Aspey: My co-facilitator closes the main door, which has a Please Do Not Disturb sign on it.
105 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:44.920 Linda Aspey: The room quietens, and I welcome everyone.
106 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:50.509 Linda Aspey: We introduce ourselves, my co-facilitator and I,
107 00:10:50.660 --> 00:10:55.790 Linda Aspey: We explain the format, and we ask for agreements to listen, Respect differences.
108 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:58.239 Linda Aspey: And keep discussions confidential.
109 00:10:59.140 --> 00:11:01.250 Linda Aspey: This is not a space for action.
110 00:11:01.390 --> 00:11:03.129 Linda Aspey: But for exploring feelings.
111 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:11.109 Linda Aspey: There is a sense of expectation, although that could just be me feeling that something important is waiting to emerge.
112 00:11:12.670 --> 00:11:17.609 Linda Aspey: To begin, I pick up the glistening black feather.
113 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:23.319 Linda Aspey: Sharing how it connects me to my love for wildlife.
114 00:11:23.790 --> 00:11:26.790 Linda Aspey: And my grief over declining bird populations.
115 00:11:28.150 --> 00:11:34.060 Linda Aspey: I speak of feeling sad that the dawn chorus seems muted from how I remember it some years ago.
116 00:11:34.460 --> 00:11:36.520 Linda Aspey: And my guilt about having cats.
117 00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:38.930 Linda Aspey: That occasionally catch birds.
118 00:11:40.430 --> 00:11:42.749 Linda Aspey: Others listen intently.
119 00:11:43.060 --> 00:11:45.559 Linda Aspey: Some appear moved by my words.
120 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:54.049 Linda Aspey: After around 3 minutes, I place the feather back into the bowl, And invite anyone else.
121 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:57.770 Linda Aspey: Who wants to make a connection, or select an item.
122 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:02.040 Linda Aspey: One by one, participants speak.
123 00:12:02.900 --> 00:12:05.179 Linda Aspey: Listened to without interruption.
124 00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:11.210 Linda Aspey: For some, their chosen object immediately brings feelings or a story to mind.
125 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:14.640 Linda Aspey: One of the young men doesn't take an object.
126 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.710 Linda Aspey: Instead, telling us about a walk he went on earlier that day along the beach.
127 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.269 Linda Aspey: And how outraged and helpless.
128 00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:24.969 Linda Aspey: He felt on seeing litter everywhere.
129 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:28.390 Linda Aspey: Several people nod intently.
130 00:12:29.790 --> 00:12:33.710 Linda Aspey: After a second round, where some resonate with what others have shared.
131 00:12:34.170 --> 00:12:36.070 Linda Aspey: Or they tell a new story.
132 00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:39.850 Linda Aspey: We close, offering further support if needed.
133 00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:41.840 Linda Aspey: Some take a leaflet.
134 00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:47.129 Linda Aspey: Once everyone leaves, my co-facilitator and I take time to reflect.
135 00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:49.739 Linda Aspey: Before heading our separate ways.
136 00:12:54.290 --> 00:12:58.050 Linda Aspey: So, has anyone here been to a Climate Cafe listening circle?
137 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:01.479 Linda Aspey: Yeah, Penny, you have.
138 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.819 Linda Aspey: Does that describe anything like your experience of it?
139 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:10.919 Penny Q - Weymouth: I… I actually facilitate one, Linda,
140 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:17.830 Penny Q - Weymouth: Yes, it does, although we are a group of people that mainly know each other.
141 00:13:18.230 --> 00:13:22.479 Penny Q - Weymouth: it's not closed, but yeah, so I'm interested in understanding
142 00:13:23.070 --> 00:13:27.109 Penny Q - Weymouth: How we might grow it in a different way, and maybe set up another one.
143 00:13:27.380 --> 00:13:29.029 Linda Aspey: Yeah, yeah, great.
144 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:37.179 Linda Aspey: Great. Well, I'll tell you a little bit more about them. I mean, cafes, climate cafes, as we know, they're all… they exist all over the world in various formats.
145 00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:47.320 Linda Aspey: Some are serving as hubs for local action groups. Some are, you know, come along, we're going to do some posters, we're going to get ready for a march, we're all going to have a guest speaker.
146 00:13:47.550 --> 00:13:53.840 Linda Aspey: to talk to us about it, and then we have tea and cake, and a cup of coffee and stuff, and that's a Climate Cafe.
147 00:13:54.230 --> 00:14:03.419 Linda Aspey: At the Climate Psychology Alliance, we, in the last year, when I took over the lead role of looking after Climate Cafe facilitation and training and supervision.
148 00:14:03.550 --> 00:14:12.540 Linda Aspey: From Rebecca Nestor, who co-designed the model we have now, or the original model. We've since adapted that model and extended it differently.
149 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:22.100 Linda Aspey: So we very much focused on listening circles, because whilst there's some fantastic things going on and great spaces to do stuff together.
150 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:29.859 Linda Aspey: Often, the focus is so much on doing stuff that the feelings don't get verbalized or even metabolized.
151 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:34.039 Linda Aspey: And, in a way, what happens in mainstream society.
152 00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:38.740 Linda Aspey: Is that our feelings about what's happening just don't have a space, often.
153 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.760 Linda Aspey: We call it socially constructed silence.
154 00:14:42.300 --> 00:14:52.109 Linda Aspey: There's a socially constructive silence around the enormity of what's happening, so we don't talk about it in the way… unless we talk about it related to a solution, often.
155 00:14:54.140 --> 00:15:01.119 Linda Aspey: So these are spaces just for feeling and sharing those feelings, developed by Rebecca and Gillian Broad.
156 00:15:01.520 --> 00:15:10.010 Linda Aspey: From the CPA. And actually, we don't tend to publicize this too much, but just so you know the roots of it, they were inspired by the Death Cafe model.
157 00:15:11.140 --> 00:15:14.469 Linda Aspey: Because death is a similar kind of set of taboos.
158 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.669 Linda Aspey: That people don't really talk about death until it happens.
159 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:23.940 Linda Aspey: And so this is a way of being able to express and articulate how we feel.
160 00:15:24.780 --> 00:15:35.680 Linda Aspey: So it's really important, psychologically and emotionally speaking, that we do find ways to do these things, and we don't have any talks, we don't have any advice, and we don't have any pressure to act.
161 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:43.629 Linda Aspey: You know, there's no expectation that people are going to join, or come back, or sign up to anything, or to promise to do anything.
162 00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:47.970 Linda Aspey: It caused the relief at just going somewhere and saying, you know, this is how I feel.
163 00:15:49.010 --> 00:15:53.149 Linda Aspey: So the circles, they welcome all kinds of emotions. We don't know what's going to come.
164 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:57.049 Linda Aspey: Those can be anything from, you know, fear.
165 00:15:57.150 --> 00:16:01.240 Linda Aspey: ambivalence, you know, I know I've got to change my life and I don't want to.
166 00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:11.040 Linda Aspey: I've got children that I want to travel, I want them to have the opportunity that I had, and I'm feeling guilty about them going on flights, some of those things.
167 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.369 Linda Aspey: Shame about what we've done. Sometimes hope.
168 00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:18.550 Linda Aspey: Often a lot of love for nature.
169 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:33.180 Linda Aspey: And tenderness, people often talk about tenderness, and what often arises, too, is numbness. You know, I don't feel anything, and I think I feel I should, but I don't feel anything, and I'm finding it hard to connect with what's going on, so I find it easier not to.
170 00:16:33.770 --> 00:16:44.070 Linda Aspey: So many of these emotions that we have and hear in cafes are actually deemed taboo by society. We even have a word for… we call them negative emotions.
171 00:16:44.530 --> 00:16:48.509 Linda Aspey: It's just astonishing how psychology has called things negative.
172 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:55.759 Linda Aspey: sources of information, they're valid feelings. No wonder we've got a repressed nation in many ways.
173 00:16:56.290 --> 00:17:07.810 Linda Aspey: So these… and so in many… and in many cultures, you know, and societies, and including in many parts of the UK, and certainly in political spheres.
174 00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:14.099 Linda Aspey: Denial and disavowal are quite common, so denial is saying it's not happening.
175 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:26.190 Linda Aspey: Disavowal is knowing it's happening, and not knowing it's happening, so it's… I'm juggling those two parts in your mind at the same time. I know it's going on, and I'm just gonna carry on as normal and pretend it's not.
176 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:36.750 Linda Aspey: We also often can morph into, when we try to talk about climate emotions, we can morph into something that's often called toxic positivity.
177 00:17:37.110 --> 00:17:38.270 Linda Aspey: Or hopian.
178 00:17:38.590 --> 00:17:49.969 Linda Aspey: It'll be fine, we'll fix it, tech will save us. I work with somebody on a council that regularly says tech will save us, and I say, which tech is that, then? And for which of these multiple problems we have?
179 00:17:50.150 --> 00:17:52.049 Linda Aspey: And they don't really have an answer.
180 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:58.030 Linda Aspey: But that's just their way of them alleviating any pain they might be feeling, perhaps.
181 00:17:59.170 --> 00:18:08.330 Linda Aspey: So what often happens is, people in society, mainstream, people polarize, and that happens too in climate cafes. We might have someone saying, it's all dreadful.
182 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:16.270 Linda Aspey: And might have someone saying, we will be fine, I have a lot of confidence. So, it's allowing all of those without judgment to surface.
183 00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:28.639 Linda Aspey: So, just something else about socially constructed silence. What we often… this is an idea that it's a conscious, unconscious collective…
184 00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:36.529 Linda Aspey: process, really, that's happening, is that something's difficult to talk about, Individually and collectively.
185 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:41.090 Linda Aspey: And so, we don't talk about it, and society makes it hard to, like any taboo.
186 00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:53.619 Linda Aspey: And what happens with that is another interesting phenomena, is that if you're not talking about it, if society doesn't talk about climate in the way that… unless they're talking about it being full of, you know, we can solve it.
187 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:55.729 Linda Aspey: We don't think about it either.
188 00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:07.819 Linda Aspey: So the suppression of talking leads to the suppression of thinking. So it kind of explains why, or partly explains why large swathes of society are walking around as if nothing's happening.
189 00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:15.879 Linda Aspey: And understanding this myself a few years ago made me a lot more compassionate about people who weren't kind of getting it, because
190 00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:30.969 Linda Aspey: People often bring rage to the cafes. Why? Why is nobody talking about… why aren't they getting it? Why aren't they seeing how serious it is? Why are they still consuming and spending and wasting and… So you get a lot of that frustration.
191 00:19:32.770 --> 00:19:34.040 Linda Aspey: So…
192 00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:41.719 Linda Aspey: As climate impacts become undeniable, more and more people are breaking out of this climate bubble, and they have nowhere to put their feelings.
193 00:19:42.130 --> 00:19:44.560 Linda Aspey: Or limited spaces.
194 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:55.689 Linda Aspey: So that's what these cafes offer, is this absolute relief, and it's a universal word. Every cafe I've ever facilitated, people say it's just such a relief.
195 00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:05.969 Linda Aspey: So, many people come and express inadequacy, including just feeling they're not doing enough, and that includes people who've been imprisoned for activism.
196 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:07.930 Linda Aspey: We still don't feel they're doing enough.
197 00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:18.910 Linda Aspey: So the enormity of this crisis can make us feel really small, and it challenges, as well, any predetermined assumptions we had about control over our lives.
198 00:20:19.810 --> 00:20:22.959 Linda Aspey: Because this is something that's very hard to control.
199 00:20:23.470 --> 00:20:37.210 Linda Aspey: And people come along, and they do think they lament the futility of recycling when they know that, you know, it's just all getting put into the trash somewhere else, and it's going… being delivered around the world. So, some of those things happen.
200 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:42.530 Linda Aspey: And there's often anger. People talk about businesses who greenwash.
201 00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:49.869 Linda Aspey: Claiming to do better for the planet. So there's a lot of roads that's often directed at, at greenwashing attempts.
202 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:53.849 Linda Aspey: People increasingly come along and talk about collapse.
203 00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:07.360 Linda Aspey: And the first time that happened in a group, I was facilitating it, and I thought, oh, crikey, I hope this isn't really going to upset people, because talking about climate change is one thing, talking about collapse takes it into a sort of different space.
204 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:11.219 Linda Aspey: And what was interesting was how many people said, yeah, I thought that too.
205 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:13.829 Linda Aspey: But I haven't been able to say it before.
206 00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:21.639 Linda Aspey: Some say they've given up, there's nothing they can do, and they've just come along to see if they can feel a little bit better today.
207 00:21:22.510 --> 00:21:25.399 Linda Aspey: Because they see a predicament with no solution.
208 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:36.040 Linda Aspey: And so they might even… they might even say, well, I might as well do the hell what I like. I might as well go on all of those trips, and those cruises, and those holidays, and eat as much steak as I want.
209 00:21:36.830 --> 00:21:43.649 Linda Aspey: But actually, what's very interesting is once people have said how awful they feel, and how conflicted they feel.
210 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:57.349 Linda Aspey: And how futile they feel. By the end of the cafe, they often say, do you know what I am going to do? I'm gonna… I'm gonna get a bit involved in my local group. Won't hurt, will it? I might go and do a litter pick. It might not make any difference, but I think it'll help.
211 00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:06.460 Linda Aspey: So, those are some of the things that people bring, and they bring everyday dilemmas, too. They, you know, how do I stay in this job?
212 00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:11.190 Linda Aspey: When I'm destroying stuff, when I'm selling rubbish to people.
213 00:22:12.270 --> 00:22:16.499 Linda Aspey: If I leave an industry, do I abandon the chance to change it from the inside?
214 00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:22.830 Linda Aspey: But do I go somewhere else and accept, often in sustainability jobs, much, much less money?
215 00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:27.989 Linda Aspey: You know, what do I do? So, everything comes, just everything, it's…
216 00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:35.110 Linda Aspey: And in, sort of, 7 years of running them now, and being in them, and teaching them, nothing kind of surprises me anymore.
217 00:22:35.310 --> 00:22:40.020 Linda Aspey: But the one thing that's just the universal feeling is relief.
218 00:22:40.490 --> 00:22:44.430 Linda Aspey: And, you know, stop feeling so alone with their feelings.
219 00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:50.210 Linda Aspey: So, what it does actually help is
220 00:22:50.370 --> 00:23:07.339 Linda Aspey: speaking feelings aloud seems to bring some kind of acceptance, and it's not a resigned… it's not often a resigned giving up kind of acceptance. It's not… it's not that end of, you know, it's all shit anyway, so what's the point? There does some… seem to be some refueling of agency.
221 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:15.059 Linda Aspey: And because we don't put pressure on people, saying, okay, sign up, you can come to the next meeting, or join your local group of something here.
222 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:21.399 Linda Aspey: when we meet people again, if they do come back, they say, oh, I did, I looked at my local group, and I did some things, or I went…
223 00:23:21.590 --> 00:23:28.489 Linda Aspey: I went on a tree planting group, and they might be small things, but it's moved them from paralysed…
224 00:23:29.610 --> 00:23:34.670 Linda Aspey: And often deep… often really quite depressed, to a just a different state.
225 00:23:35.370 --> 00:23:52.800 Linda Aspey: And also, they've named forbidden thoughts sometimes, so sometimes people say things, you know, that they can share really quite dark feelings about their grandchildren and things like that, or their children, and the lives they have, and it's… that's really taboo in many places to talk about that, so…
226 00:23:53.050 --> 00:23:56.870 Linda Aspey: Because they've been given permission to do that, that's what they… what can happen.
227 00:23:57.950 --> 00:24:06.970 Linda Aspey: A phenomenon that can often happen when a young… our cafes run for 18-year-olds plus, or 16 with a caring parent or guardian.
228 00:24:08.100 --> 00:24:14.819 Linda Aspey: But we do have youth groups as well, we have youth spaces and youth circles, and it always has to be age-appropriate.
229 00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:21.239 Linda Aspey: But what we find is when young people, younger people are in the group, and other members of the group are much older.
230 00:24:21.370 --> 00:24:26.969 Linda Aspey: That can be, quite difficult, because people feel really bad for the young person present.
231 00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:32.630 Linda Aspey: And they kind of… they can either dump it all on the young person, say, well, you know, it's up to you to fix it now.
232 00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:43.599 Linda Aspey: Or they just talk about how bad they feel, or they overly praise young people. They say, oh, you're actually… you're marvellous, you young people, what you're doing. So, you kind of manage that as facilitators.
233 00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:53.649 Linda Aspey: So, hearing people struggle with same dilemmas often helps. Hearing people struggle about to fly or not, to eat meat, whatever, you know, that seems to help.
234 00:24:53.940 --> 00:25:10.440 Linda Aspey: And it certainly opens the door, when they leave, to having better productive conversations with family and friends. Doesn't mean to say they're gonna go straight out and be fluent in having climate conversations, but even telling a friend, I've been to a climate cafe listening circle.
235 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:12.630 Linda Aspey: And it was really helpful.
236 00:25:12.830 --> 00:25:15.100 Linda Aspey: It was… that sort of spreads the word.
237 00:25:15.470 --> 00:25:18.550 Linda Aspey: So, whilst they're not therapy, they seem to be therapeutic.
238 00:25:19.780 --> 00:25:25.230 Linda Aspey: So talking and sharing, strengthens connection, and it helps people to stay awake to reality.
239 00:25:25.390 --> 00:25:27.110 Linda Aspey: Without being overwhelmed.
240 00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:34.080 Linda Aspey: Because it's ritualistic, it's sitting in a circle with objects of nature, other parts of nature.
241 00:25:34.310 --> 00:25:38.069 Linda Aspey: It sort of offers a pathway to some kind of deeper conversation.
242 00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:50.710 Linda Aspey: And it normalizes. Really important skill of any therapist, if anyone's ever had the chance to have some therapy, the normalizing aspect is just wonderful. Someone says, yeah, I understand you feel that way.
243 00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:55.210 Linda Aspey: Rather than, I'm wrong to feel like this, or I'm ashamed of how I feel.
244 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:01.509 Linda Aspey: And so, while there's no expectation of action, people generally leave feeling a lot more engaged.
245 00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:12.909 Linda Aspey: And it's neither therapy group, nor is it a completely informal group. People don't just drop in. We can't have that. That would make it very difficult to manage all of the comings and goings.
246 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:22.039 Linda Aspey: So it's a hybrid, and it's not perfect. Things go wrong, people leave occasionally, but… and that's why we always have two facilitators.
247 00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:25.439 Linda Aspey: I'm not having two here today, simply for this, but…
248 00:26:26.360 --> 00:26:31.630 Linda Aspey: And as one person said at the close of the session, said, it was really good to be real today.
249 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.220 Linda Aspey: Even if just for this time alone.
250 00:26:37.270 --> 00:26:52.929 Linda Aspey: So, our Climate Cafe listening circle's open to anybody. We have them online. People like Penny do them around the country, in their local groups, for small communities, small and closed communities, closed… always, well, people who regularly come, sometimes they're one-off.
251 00:26:53.510 --> 00:27:04.780 Linda Aspey: We run ours online… I run mine online, and we… we run at Climate Psychology Alliance, we run training for people to facilitate them, and since I've taken
252 00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:13.369 Linda Aspey: Since I've taken over, since I've taken the lead on training, we've evolved our model to be a longer training, so that people get more understanding about how to facilitate well.
253 00:27:13.810 --> 00:27:24.990 Linda Aspey: And also, what's really important for me is that these are not in the hands of psychologists or therapists. These are listening spaces held by citizens for citizens.
254 00:27:25.110 --> 00:27:38.510 Linda Aspey: So, once someone's done the training, I mean, they can do it without the training, but we offer training, low-cost training, to any community group or any individual without any therapy or psychology training to hold a decent listening space.
255 00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:42.810 Linda Aspey: By citizens, for citizens.
256 00:27:44.110 --> 00:27:45.559 Linda Aspey: So I'll stop there.
257 00:27:46.270 --> 00:27:53.240 Linda Aspey: And I'm gonna suggest we make a choice now. Who would like to actually take part in a small listening circle for a while?
258 00:27:53.540 --> 00:28:04.679 Linda Aspey: We have raised hands, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Lovely! If you would like to stay, and we'll do that, and if you wouldn't like to do one, because we can't have observers.
259 00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:10.130 Linda Aspey: I'm gonna invite you to… to leave, and then you can see the recording afterwards.
260 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:17.640 Linda Aspey: Before you… if anyone… is anyone leaving? I don't want to put you on the spot, it's a horrible thing, but does anyone need to leave, and not… not be part of this?
261 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:19.920 Linda Aspey: Alright.
262 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:27.519 Linda Aspey: And, I'm hoping that we just do, say, we'll just do… we'll just do a… you have to go, okay, thanks, Gary.
263 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:32.710 Linda Aspey: If you have any questions about them afterwards, because we're not… we're not going to do a…
264 00:28:32.970 --> 00:28:38.269 Linda Aspey: We might have 10… we'll have 5 minutes at the end for questions, but if they haven't been answered, then you can contact me directly.
265 00:28:38.270 --> 00:28:40.550 Jacky Lawrence, Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire: I see it's still recording, though.
266 00:28:40.550 --> 00:28:42.679 Linda Aspey: Yeah, we're gonna stop the recording now.
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