> For the complete documentation index, see [llms.txt](https://wiki.greatcollaboration.uk/knowledgebase/llms.txt). Markdown versions of documentation pages are available by appending `.md` to page URLs; this page is available as [Markdown](https://wiki.greatcollaboration.uk/knowledgebase/events/banter-sessions-inc-table-of-all-sessions/banter-136-09sep26-trees-with-tristram-cary.md). # Banter 136: 09Sep26 Trees, with Tristram Cary woodland creation, woodland coverage, timber construction, ancient woodlands, sequestering carbon, structural insulated panels (SIP), cross-laminated timber (CLT), glulams {% embed url="" %} ## Video Timeline: 00:00 - 28:00 Presentation 28:00 - 53:00 (end) Q & A *** #### Presentation: {% embed url="" %} You are welcome to view and/or download this presentation (click on Open in the box above). A markdown version of this file is at the bottom of this page *** #### Meeting Summary: Sep 09, 2026 11:55 AM LondonID: 834 5460 8536 ### Quick recap This meeting focused on Tristram Carey's presentation about woodland creation and timber construction in the UK. Tristram discussed the UK's low woodland coverage (13% in England compared to 31% EU average and 46% worldwide), explaining how ancient woodlands must be managed to continue sequestering carbon rather than becoming carbon traps. He covered timber construction alternatives to concrete and steel, highlighting new engineered timber technologies like structural insulated panels, cross-laminated timber, and glulams that can create stronger, more durable buildings. The presentation included calculations showing that achieving the UK's 16.5% tree cover target by 2050 could potentially provide enough timber for all construction needs, requiring approximately 8.4% of UK land for managed woodland. Tristram explained how DEFRA's England Woodland Creation Offer (UCO) provides subsidies for multiple ecosystem services including carbon sequestration, biodiversity, flood management, and access to nature, with opportunities for parish-level collaboration through community interest companies. The discussion included questions about environmental impacts of treated timber, food production concerns with increased woodland, and climate-appropriate tree planting, with participants sharing insights about local woodland management and future presentation ideas. ### Next steps #### David * Contact Tristram for the DEFRA Woodland Creation Officer contact details and follow up about arranging a visit/advice for his parish. #### Garry * Provide information or a presentation on suitable trees for future climate conditions in urban areas. #### Graham * Share Tristram's presentation on the Great Collaboration website. #### Collaboration * All participants: Submit one topic idea for a future presentation to Graham via chat or email. ### Summary #### UK Woodland and Timber Construction Tristram presented on UK woodland and timber construction, explaining that the UK has very little woodland compared to other countries, with only 13% cover in England versus 31% globally. He discussed historical deforestation causes including Neolithic farming, Tudor shipbuilding, and the Industrial Revolution, which reduced woodland cover from 60-80% in 3000 BC to 5% by 1919. Tristram covered current government initiatives including the England Trees Action Plan and timber construction roadmap, and explained the carbon sequestration process using oak woodland as an example, noting that while maximum sequestration occurs after 30 years at 40 tons of CO2 equivalent per hectare per annum, the total carbon store reaches 1,400 CO2 equivalent per hectare after 200 years. #### Carbon Sequestration in Timber Construction Tristram explained the importance of managing woodlands to maintain carbon sequestration, noting that mature ancient woodlands trap heat while sequestering little new carbon. He discussed the potential for using timber in construction as an alternative to concrete and steel, which could store carbon permanently. Tristram highlighted new engineering technologies making timber construction stronger and more durable, including structural insulated panels, cross-laminated timber, and glued laminated panels, and mentioned examples of tall wooden buildings like one in Trondheim, Norway. #### Timber Construction and Sustainability Tristram presented on timber construction, highlighting examples of successful timber buildings including a Shoreditch office building and the Phoenix Project in Lewes that will store 500,000 tons of CO2 equivalent. He explained the development of Superwood, a new material being researched by companies like Invent Wood and Woodoo that offers superior strength, moisture resistance, and environmental benefits compared to traditional materials. Tristram calculated that to meet UK housing needs of 900,000 homes annually using timber frame construction would require approximately 20,000 square kilometers of woodland, representing 8.4% of the UK's area, suggesting sufficient land could be available if the 16.5% timber target is met. #### Woodland Targets and Financial Viability Tristram presented on woodland targets and financial viability, explaining that a Woodland target of 16.5% by 2050 could fulfill the UK's complete timber requirement through managed mature and ancient woodland. He discussed how DEFRA subsidies can make timber extraction commercially viable by compensating for ecosystem services beyond timber production, noting that engineered wood production in the UK has grown at 15% per annum since 2015. Tristram also outlined opportunities for parish-level woodland creation through DEFRA's England Woodland Creation Offer, explaining that while grants currently require a minimum 2-hectare area, there is potential to group small landowners together through legal entities like community interest companies. #### Timber Processing Parish Opportunities Tristram presented on opportunities for timber and wood processing at parish level, suggesting initiatives like identifying tree planting locations, creating hedgerows, and developing local timber processing industries. Graham expressed interest in approaching their parish council about these opportunities. During the Q\&A, Cllr challenged Tristram's claim about wooden houses only lasting a few hundred years, citing an example of a 13th or 14th century house still standing, while Tristram acknowledged the perception but noted modern glulam houses use more timber. Jane raised questions about delignification processes and environmental concerns, though her full question about building in flood areas was not completed in the transcript. #### Woodland Management and Planting Plans Tristram and Jane discussed woodland management and tree planting plans, with Tristram explaining that increasing tree coverage from 13% to 16.5% would still leave sufficient land for agriculture and food production. Tristram emphasised the benefits of mixed species woodland that could be managed for both environmental purposes and timber production, suggesting local community management rather than large-scale clear felling. Jane shared positive insights from a Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust presentation about fruit tree planting initiatives, which both participants viewed as promising examples of sustainable woodland management. #### Innovative Wood and Concrete Applications The group discussed innovative uses of wood and concrete, including the use of carbon black-infused concrete as a power storage solution and the potential for mixed species woodland to create building timber. Tristram explained that engineered timber, such as CLT, is water-resistant and dimensionally stable due to cross-ply veneers and water-repelling glue. Andrew raised concerns about timber frames in damp conditions, but Tristram assured him that treated timber, like Accoya, (mostly made from radiata pine) is effective at preventing water damage. Graham suggested combining concrete with timber framing to address potential issues with moisture and power storage. #### Forestry and Food Production Changes The group discussed changes in forestry practices and food production. Frank shared observations about ash dieback in Herefordshire and expressed interest in improving sweet chestnut cultivation for edible nuts. Graham mentioned the Forestry Commission's shift toward mixed woodland instead of dense pine plantations. Tristram raised concerns about soil and water damage from arable farming and suggested hydroponic systems as a potential future food production method, while Jane emphasis!ed the importance of moving away from monocultures toward more diverse food production systems. #### Tree Selection for Climate Change Garry asked for advice on which trees to plant given climate change conditions, noting that previously planted trees struggled with drought and high temperatures. Tristram suggested checking DEFRA's website, which provides recommendations based on location and future climate projections, though Garry expressed concerns about relying on 50-year projections. Frank recommended trees from Central Asia, including walnuts, sweet chestnuts, and apple trees, as they are better adapted to hot summers and deep root systems. Graham requested that all participants suggest future presentation topics, with Garry agreeing to present on calculating carbon footprints for small councils. *** #### Chat: 0:40:37 Andrew Clegg: what about building out of wood in a flood area? \ 00:42:53 Frank Hemming: Is there an opportunity for mixed species woodland to create building timber? \ 00:52:25 Jane Carr: Please would you spell akoya? for me :). Accoya (lit's a trade name)\_ \ **00:59:21 Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset:** ### \ 01:01:06 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Would you like a presentation on calculating the carbon footprint for a small council? *** #### Audio-Transcript" 100 \ 00:08:48.100 --> 00:08:48.810 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Perfect. 101 \ 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:49.860 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Okay. 102 \ 00:08:50.030 --> 00:09:06.319 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Perfect. So I ought to start by explaining that I'm not an expert in English woodland or timber construction, but I have been thinking about it and trying to do something about it in Parish Online for some time, so I think it's a very interesting subject. 103 \ 00:09:06.350 --> 00:09:17.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So I want to… I cover quite a lot of ground, so I'll try to go reasonably quickly. Do ask questions as we go along, if you're… if you don't understand. Next slide, please. 104 \ 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:26.019 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So the first… the first thing is that UK has very little woodland compared to most countries in the world. 105 \ 00:09:26.290 --> 00:09:41.580 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And our lack of woodland is one of the main reasons why our wildlife and habitats are so depleted, so it's very important that we grow it. So, in UK, we've got about 13% cover, in England, 10%, and that compares with Europe, the EU, 31%, 106 \ 00:09:41.660 --> 00:09:50.439 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: total Europe 46%, and the world average 31%, so it's extraordinary that we're so depleted when we've got a very good climate for trees. 107 \ 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:58.620 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And we also import more than 80% of our timber for construction, which is second only to China. 108 \ 00:09:59.330 --> 00:10:04.539 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, so that's quite extraordinary, I think. Next slide. 109 \ 00:10:05.090 --> 00:10:13.350 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And why is… why is the UK so short of woodland? Well, in 3000 BC, they estimate there was 60% to 80% of woodland cover. 110 \ 00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:21.699 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But the Neolithic farmers cleared trees for crops and grazing, and we did it faster proportionate to area than most countries in Europe. 111 \ 00:10:22.150 --> 00:10:34.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: from Tudor times, the Royal Navy used between 2,000 and 6,000 mature eggs per warship to build… to build warships. It's an astonishing figure. And that… that didn't help the tree cover. A lot of trees were cut down. 112 \ 00:10:34.490 --> 00:10:53.420 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The Industrial Revolution used land for mines, railways, towns, farms, rapidly growing population. So by 1919, woodland cover was down to about 5% of the area, which is at its lowest point ever. And the Forestry Commission was funded in 1919 to try to support woodland regeneration. 113 \ 00:10:54.430 --> 00:11:06.129 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next, please. So, currently, post-Brexit, there's been two plans. First of all, the England Trees Action Plan, which ran till 2024. 114 \ 00:11:06.350 --> 00:11:09.579 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And it's now been replaced by the Environment Improvement Plan. 115 \ 00:11:09.810 --> 00:11:10.770 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And… 116 \ 00:11:10.900 --> 00:11:22.010 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: They, in that time, 21 to 24, they invested £100 million per annum to triple the rate of woodland creation from 10,000 hectares to 30,000 hectares. 117 \ 00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:34.459 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: with a target of 16.5% tree cover by 2050, and the progress was very slow, and I'll discuss why that might be later on in this presentation. 118 \ 00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:52.979 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: There's also a timber and construction roadmap that the government published last year to try to reduce the embodied carbon in buildings. Creating buildings out of concrete is very, very intense, carbon intensive. And to stimulate woodland creation and active forest management in Britain. 119 \ 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:57.920 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: and to support economic growth. And I think there's a lot of potential in that plan. 120 \ 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:00.020 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next one. 121 \ 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:16.389 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Right, this is… this is a really important slide, which I think is often misunderstood by parish councils, and our parish council in particular, making our neighborhood plan. We completely misunderstood this. So what this… what this chart shows is two things. In the orange. 122 \ 00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:20.559 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: You've got the rate of sequestration per annum. 123 \ 00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:32.330 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And sequestration means pulling carbon out of the atmosphere and locking it into the trees. And so this… this is for… this chart shows a 200… 200-year… 124 \ 00:12:32.550 --> 00:12:40.629 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Timeline along the horizontal axis, and it's for… it's what would happen if you planted unthinned oak 125 \ 00:12:41.910 --> 00:12:50.099 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: woodland. So if you think of taking a square kilometre and planting lots of trees, this is what happens. So as the trees grow from little saplings. 126 \ 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:58.169 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And they're saplings, they hardly sequester any carbon because they're too small. After about 30 years, you've got the maximum sequestration 127 \ 00:12:58.390 --> 00:13:01.929 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And you have to look at this side for that, for the, 128 \ 00:13:02.610 --> 00:13:06.570 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: for the, units. So that's, 40… 129 \ 00:13:06.940 --> 00:13:20.520 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: 40 tons of CO2 equivalent per hectare per annum, and that's a maximum. After that, that's like a growth spurt in a teenager. After that, the growth gets slower, and as the tree matures, it… it… 130 \ 00:13:20.520 --> 00:13:35.540 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: it ends up in an equilibrium, where it's not… it's not growing any bigger, and limbs are falling off, and it's getting damaged. So, after 200 years, a mature egg is not sequestrating any more… sorry, sequestering any more new carbon. 131 \ 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:49.839 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But what you have in the blue line, it shows the total store. So if you've got a… if you've got a stand of woodland, as it matures and you end up with veteran oak trees, you've got a very big store, which is 1,400 132 \ 00:13:50.270 --> 00:13:59.479 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: CO2 equivalent per hectare, and that's a maximum, but it… but it's… it's not… it's not… it's stopped growing, that's… that's your maximum store. 133 \ 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.889 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Is that clear? That's really, really important you understand that. 134 \ 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:05.760 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah. Next slide. 135 \ 00:14:06.150 --> 00:14:17.310 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So what that means, if you've got… if you've got a, say, a mature woodland, or sorry, if you're growing trees, you've got to make a choice. That's what these green lines are. 136 \ 00:14:17.310 --> 00:14:31.610 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: You've got to say, either you harvest the oak or the trees when they're at their maximum sequestration, and that gives you a very small… a pretty small store of… if you did that, maintained that 137 \ 00:14:31.610 --> 00:14:42.750 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: that regime, you would end up with quite a small store of carbon, this blue point here. You can't see my… sorry, you can't see my cursing again, that… where that blue line intersects the green. 138 \ 00:14:43.900 --> 00:14:52.830 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But you've got a maximum harvest, so you're able to harvest 35… Tons a year per hectare. 139 \ 00:14:53.450 --> 00:15:00.539 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Or you can go to this middle green line, where you have a larger store of carbon, but a smaller harvest. 140 \ 00:15:00.540 --> 00:15:14.550 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Or you go… you let the trees mature, then you've got a very big store, static store of carbon, but you're only able to harvest a tiny amount every year, because there's hardly any growth left. 141 \ 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:18.539 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So that's a… that's an important consideration. 142 \ 00:15:18.790 --> 00:15:24.369 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And… just to show that that's, you know, how that compares. You can see in this chart 143 \ 00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:41.649 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: if you've got woodland, that dark green line, it does… it tails off. So after centuries to millennia, if you've got wood cover, you've got a static store, but there's no growth in the sequestration. That's true of salt marshes, it's true of grassland and other habitats. 144 \ 00:15:41.650 --> 00:16:01.370 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The only thing it's not true of seems to be peatland, because if you… if you're making peat, you go on year after year after year putting down more peats, and the peat… the peat layer gets thicker and thicker. So that's… that's sort of the best thing for locking away carbon. But what… what all this means is that if you've got ancient woodlands. 145 \ 00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:07.830 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: You must manage them and thin them out to allow new trees, new wood to grow. 146 \ 00:16:08.530 --> 00:16:09.870 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 147 \ 00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:20.980 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And that… the reason I've said all this in such detail is that in my parish as an example, we've got quite a lot of ancient woodland. 148 \ 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:37.149 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And the council thought, well, that's great, it's sequestering carbon every year, so we're okay. We've almost reached net zero, because this ancient woodland is sequestering all this new carbon. And that's not true, it's mature, it wasn't being managed, so actually it wasn't 149 \ 00:16:37.270 --> 00:16:40.160 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It wasn't sequestering any new carbon at all. 150 \ 00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:49.729 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And that's… that's damaging, because… I don't know if you know about albedo, but albedo is a percentage of sunlight that's reflected from the Earth's surface. 151 \ 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:50.920 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And… 152 \ 00:16:51.400 --> 00:17:02.999 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The forest and woodland is right down here, so it's… it's absorbing pretty well 90% of all the energy of the sun is being caught by the leaves and kept. 153 \ 00:17:03.310 --> 00:17:08.880 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And if you compare that to crops, which is, you know, twice… it's, 154 \ 00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:15.700 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It's reflecting twice as much sunlight back into the atmosphere, back into space, as forest. 155 \ 00:17:15.700 --> 00:17:29.709 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So if you've got a mature, ancient woodland, it's trapping nearly all the carbon that's… sorry, it's trapping nearly all the heat from the sun, and it's not sequestering any new carbon. So in a way, it's the very worst thing in terms of global warming. 156 \ 00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:34.380 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The message is, we must manage our forests. 157 \ 00:17:34.560 --> 00:17:45.630 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So that they carry on sequestering new carbon, but then you've got to find a way to use the wood that you harvest. And you can use the wood, you know, either for fuel, but much the best thing is to use it for building. 158 \ 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.290 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 159 \ 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:59.709 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, I'm now going to turn to thinking about timber for construction. 40% of man-made carbon comes from the construction industry, mostly from making concrete and steel. 160 \ 00:17:59.820 --> 00:18:03.360 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And using timber is increasingly a much better alternative. 161 \ 00:18:03.940 --> 00:18:22.300 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Because wooden construction reduces the embedded carbon by about 30% compared to concrete and steel, and also wooden construction creates a permanent carbon store. So if you… if you build all our 30 million houses out of timber, you've stored away that carbon, and as you, as you, you know, as would… 162 \ 00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:26.510 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: dies, you put new wood in, you're replacing that store. So. 163 \ 00:18:26.510 --> 00:18:37.589 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Potentially, we've got a huge opportunity to store all our timber, keep the woodlands sequestering new carbon, and using the timber to build houses. 164 \ 00:18:38.070 --> 00:18:46.769 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The problem with this is that there's very little tradition for timber houses in the UK, so a lot of councils, you know, they say, well, it's not. They call it the, 165 \ 00:18:47.550 --> 00:18:49.350 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: what do they call it? They've got a term. 166 \ 00:18:49.550 --> 00:18:57.329 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It's not the sort of thing that we like to do, so it's hard to get proper wooden houses built. 167 \ 00:18:57.330 --> 00:19:09.920 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And there's also a perception that wooden houses won't last properly, so people have an idea of a sort of log cabin, and a sort of not a permanent house, so people are much more inclined to want to build in bricks and concrete, as they've always done. 168 \ 00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:12.800 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And I think we have to try to change that perception. 169 \ 00:19:13.620 --> 00:19:26.980 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, timber for construction is increasingly engineered to make it stronger, dimensionally stable, fireproof, rock-proof, and water-resistant. So we… the new technology allows us to build houses 170 \ 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:35.630 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: that are properly permanent, and Graham covered some of this last week. So the three… the three sort of things, the three ways of construction 171 \ 00:19:36.470 --> 00:19:46.399 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: are structural insulated panels, so that still uses, or could use concrete posts and buildings, but you then put in these panels, which are 172 \ 00:19:46.610 --> 00:19:47.970 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It… 173 \ 00:19:48.140 --> 00:20:07.560 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: a sheet of insulation and squashed between two, two panels of wood, and they're… they don't move, they're dimensionally stable, you can glue them together. So that's the first one. The second one is cross-laminated timber, so that's where you take timber, you make veneer panels, and then you change their orientation so that you end up with a 174 \ 00:20:07.590 --> 00:20:15.409 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: A plank that's very dimensionally stable and doesn't… wood can't… sorry, water can't penetrate, because you… you use a glue that's waterproof. 175 \ 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:24.959 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And then the third one is these glued laminated panels called glue lamps, which are like CLT, but engineered into shapes, so you can do anything with them. 176 \ 00:20:25.300 --> 00:20:30.599 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And it's beautiful, and they're… I'll come on to the strength in a minute. So, next slide. 177 \ 00:20:31.260 --> 00:20:47.159 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So here are some examples, and, I think Graham covered this one, the… I don't know how to pronounce that, but this building in Trondheim in Norway, which is 16 floors. It was the tallest wooden building, but I understand from Graham last week it's been overtaken. 178 \ 00:20:47.620 --> 00:20:56.140 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It does have concrete in its foundations, and we'll come to how that could be replaced, but the rest of that 16-floor building is pure timber. 179 \ 00:20:56.840 --> 00:21:07.949 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Wonderful. And it's past… it's passed all of our regulations, it's absolutely strong, it's much more beautiful, and it's storing all that… all that… all that carbon in its timbers. 180 \ 00:21:08.690 --> 00:21:09.920 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 181 \ 00:21:11.060 --> 00:21:29.710 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And I don't know if you've seen this building, the black and white office building in Shoreditch, which was, which was finished about 3 years ago, and here it is being constructed on the right-hand side, and you can see there's a… those girders are pure timber, and they… they've passed all the fire tests, and they're extremely strong. 182 \ 00:21:30.550 --> 00:21:47.390 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So I think you've got to see that these buildings are also beautiful. They're more interesting, I think, than a lot of other buildings. There's also this… this scheme in Lewis, the Phoenix project, which is in the South Downs National Park. It's… it's start… construction has started 183 \ 00:21:47.430 --> 00:22:00.409 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It will store 500,000 tons of CO2 equivalent when it's finished, and construction is now underway. But that took… planning permission for that development took a long, long time. It was very difficult to push through, but it's been done. 184 \ 00:22:01.810 --> 00:22:16.840 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next… and here, I just… I just showed this photograph before, but I think this is a wonderful example of how you can… you can, you know, the architects can use their imaginations and make any shape or structure, and I think they're very, very beautiful. A lot of potential. 185 \ 00:22:17.330 --> 00:22:18.849 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: You know where this one is, tristram? 186 \ 00:22:18.860 --> 00:22:20.979 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I don't, actually. I don't. 187 \ 00:22:21.370 --> 00:22:30.579 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But I think it's… I think it's a… looks like a church, a building of some sort. And then, using timber for ordinary housing is something we've got to come to. 188 \ 00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:34.060 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: and accept, and I think at the moment, this is still a very 189 \ 00:22:34.290 --> 00:22:44.030 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: niche, you know, most people who want to build a house will not want to build it out of timber. It's not yet the vernacular, that's the word I was looking for, it's not in our vernacular. 190 \ 00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:47.080 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But we need to try to change that perception, I think. 191 \ 00:22:48.030 --> 00:22:49.480 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 192 \ 00:22:49.550 --> 00:23:08.760 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And then, the next thing I want to just cover is this thing called Superwood, which is… is still… it's not really commercial yet, but it's being… it's being investigated by two companies in particular, I found. One's called Invent Wood, which is in America, and Woodoo, which I think is not a good name, is a French company. 193 \ 00:23:09.170 --> 00:23:19.489 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And the process they're looking at is saying, well, let's take the wood and actually change its structure so that it's stronger and dimensionally stable and rock-proof and all those things. 194 \ 00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:35.179 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And roughly, the process is that you take… you take the normal wood, and you take the lignum out of it, which is the paste that holds the whole thing together, and you leave the cellular structure, which are these, you know, the long grains in the wood. 195 \ 00:23:35.290 --> 00:23:44.259 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So you take out the lignum, delignification, and then you infiltrate the matrix that's left with a new substance. 196 \ 00:23:44.490 --> 00:24:02.999 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Which could be anything you… it can be, you know, a lot of things, but if you put in a sort of epoxy-type resin thing, then you've got… you've got the structure of the wood and its grain, but you've got… you've changed the stuff that rots and absorbs water with something that's waterproof. And then the fourth part is that you then compress it. 197 \ 00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:04.840 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And lock it all together. 198 \ 00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:11.779 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: didn't ask me the details, but that's roughly how it works in one of those sites. And on the next slide. 199 \ 00:24:12.100 --> 00:24:28.069 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: you can see that that… that's called… they call that superwood. So, if you look down the list of things, it's… it's far, far safe, better than traditional wood, steel, or concrete. It's 10… up to 10 times the strength to weight ratio of steel. 200 \ 00:24:28.290 --> 00:24:42.630 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It resists moisture, termites, rot, and everything, so it's sort of everlasting, more so than traditional wood, steel, or concrete. It's six times lighter than steel, and it's got a carbon footprint that's 90% lower than steel. 201 \ 00:24:42.840 --> 00:24:46.780 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So it's a… it's a sort of super material, potentially. 202 \ 00:24:46.910 --> 00:24:57.770 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But, as I said, it's very expensive, and it's not, you know, not yet commonly used, but that's where this is heading. And once you… if you use that sort of material, you could make your foundations out of it as well. 203 \ 00:24:59.570 --> 00:25:01.770 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: A little glimpse into the future. 204 \ 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:03.899 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide, please. 205 \ 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:13.619 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Okay, so I then… so when I was thinking about this, I said, well, I wonder how… whether it's possible, how many… how much of our timber we could grow 206 \ 00:25:13.850 --> 00:25:23.040 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: In Britain, with our 16.5% target, and what… what would that represent? So I… I took the… UK's… 207 \ 00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:26.879 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: A housing target of 30,000… 208 \ 00:25:27.020 --> 00:25:36.560 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: New homes… sorry, 300,000 new homes per annum, which is… which is what the government says we need to produce to manage the population. 209 \ 00:25:37.170 --> 00:25:47.760 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I then looked at the number of homes we've got in the UK, which is about 30 million, and if you take the average life of a house as 100 years, or the average life before you sort of, you know, rebuild it. 210 \ 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:55.299 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Then that… that 30 million, at a rate of… at a lifetime of 100 years, will give you another $300,000. 211 \ 00:25:56.040 --> 00:26:08.760 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: homes you'd need to build. So you've got 300,000 new homes, and then replacement homes of what's already there. So that would give you a total residential target of 600,000 homes per annum. 212 \ 00:26:08.830 --> 00:26:17.539 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And commercial buildings are about half the volume of residential buildings, so you could take another 300,000 213 \ 00:26:18.600 --> 00:26:28.149 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Equivalent homes for the commercial buildings, and that gives you a total target of 900,000 new houses, 3-bedroom equivalent houses per year. 214 \ 00:26:28.330 --> 00:26:29.569 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 215 \ 00:26:30.710 --> 00:26:43.799 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, if you then say that I took the cubic meters of timber that you need per 3-bedroom housing for the three types of houses, which is the timber frame, the sip. 216 \ 00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:59.210 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: which is integrated with panel, but then either CLT or glulum, in other words, all… a total wooden building is this right-hand column, so let's use that. So that, in an average 3-bedroom house, you've got about 35 cubic meters of timber. 217 \ 00:26:59.870 --> 00:27:00.710 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Okay. 218 \ 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:04.300 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And the extraction per… per… 219 \ 00:27:05.260 --> 00:27:14.410 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Sorry, in cubic meters per hectare per annum in a mature softwood plantation, bear with me, is about 15. 220 \ 00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:23.839 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, in other words, in a normal woodland that's being managed for timber, you only extract 15 cubic meters per hectare per arm. 221 \ 00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:29.240 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, this… that then tells you how many hectares you need per house. 222 \ 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:39.610 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So if… looking at this right-hand column of cross-laminated timber and glulam, you would need 2.33 hectares per house. 223 \ 00:27:39.830 --> 00:27:51.719 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And that's 0.02 square kilometers per house, so for 600,000… then let's go down to the 900,000 houses, which is our total, you would need 224 \ 00:27:51.930 --> 00:28:11.119 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: 20… 20,000 square kilometres of woodland, which is 8.4% of the area of the UK. So I hope you… I hope you're with me. But it means that in… it means that, sort of, in… in principle, there ought to be enough land if we… if we get close to our 16.5 target. 225 \ 00:28:11.430 --> 00:28:17.050 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: To… to manage our entire… Requirement for structural timber. 226 \ 00:28:17.430 --> 00:28:25.579 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: In the UK. And by the way, that… that also allows you… one benefit of… which I'll come on to in a second, is that you… 227 \ 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.930 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think it's possible. 228 \ 00:28:28.280 --> 00:28:42.300 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: to… if you think about managing an ancient woodland, or managing a hedgerow that you've put trees into, you know, all those can count, because with this new technology of CLTs and glulam, you don't need 229 \ 00:28:42.450 --> 00:28:46.649 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: big, mature trees and straight planks. You can use pretty well any wood you like. 230 \ 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:55.810 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: softwood, hardwood, anything. So, when you see… when you see people clearing of the hedgerow and burning the wood, you know, we ought to be able to collect that. 231 \ 00:28:56.450 --> 00:29:01.030 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: The objection to that is it wouldn't be commercially viable, but actually it will be, as I'll show you in a minute. 232 \ 00:29:01.850 --> 00:29:20.820 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, next one. So, my conclusion for this is that woodland target of 6.5 covered by 2050 is potentially enough to fulfill the UK's complete timber requirement, especially if mature and ancient woodland is managed so that it can sequester new carbons, going back to the first point. 233 \ 00:29:22.210 --> 00:29:28.300 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And I just made that point, Nate, that engineered wood can use pretty well any sort of timber. You no longer need large, straight planks. 234 \ 00:29:29.260 --> 00:29:30.989 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide, please. 235 \ 00:29:30.990 --> 00:29:44.850 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: I have a question for you on your math there, tristram. If you need 8% of the wood each year to beat your building target, then presumably you've got to grow that 8% every year, because you're taking it down. 236 \ 00:29:44.850 --> 00:30:05.769 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's the point. You're not… you know, I'm not talking about clear filling. We'll come on to the ecosy services that carbon provides. What we're saying is that if you go back to my green lines, if you think about a new woodland, and you say, well, we're going to keep it at that level of maturity, that means every year you're harvesting some wood. 237 \ 00:30:05.770 --> 00:30:10.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And leaving the rest, so that's… that's a stable repeatable state. 238 \ 00:30:10.530 --> 00:30:12.250 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Spending, okay, thank you. 239 \ 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:28.090 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Okay, so the next thing is financial viability. The UK lags miles behind Europe, in particular Austria and Scandinavia in engineered wood production, and they've got… they've got, we've got smaller… 240 \ 00:30:28.090 --> 00:30:39.909 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: forests, more mixed species, less established infrastructure. So if you're trying to compete with Scandinavia, you know, Finland, growing masses of square kilometers of the same trees, you know, you can't compete. 241 \ 00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:57.299 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But DEFRA is now free, post the Common Agricultural Policy, to subsidize woodland, to pay for other ecosystem services. So the principle is that a tree provides all sorts of benefits to the country, besides being a source of timber. 242 \ 00:30:57.300 --> 00:31:03.329 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So you've got things like soil stability, biodiversity, clean air, shade, flood prevention. 243 \ 00:31:03.330 --> 00:31:10.979 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: water quality, access to nature, and all those things now can be subsidized by DEFRA 244 \ 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:18.820 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And if you get that… if you tune that thing right, you… you ought to be able to make your… the timber that you do extract 245 \ 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.330 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: commercially viable. 246 \ 00:31:21.940 --> 00:31:23.179 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Does that make sense? 247 \ 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:24.380 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Yep. 248 \ 00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:40.860 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So subsidies can be designed to make timber for construction financially viable, and extraction and engineering. Oh, and as a result of that, by the way, extraction and engineering is now making good progress. So, although we started from a very low base, because we lost pretty well all our timber processing, 249 \ 00:31:41.490 --> 00:31:43.440 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: yards. 250 \ 00:31:43.560 --> 00:31:52.799 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: engineered wood is now growing to about 15% per annum since 2015. So although that's from a low brace, that's good, you know, that's good progress. 251 \ 00:31:56.350 --> 00:32:02.450 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Okay, so DEFRA's got a thing called the England Woodland Creation Officer… Offer… sorry, offer. 252 \ 00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:11.419 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yuko, and that allows these payments to be stacked for the same piece of woodland. So if you're a… if you're a parish or a district with a bit of woodland. 253 \ 00:32:11.420 --> 00:32:23.000 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: you can apply now for things like carbon credits, biodiversity units, flood mitigation, access to nature. And in the next slide, I'm going to show you a few of those things to show you that it's real. 254 \ 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:28.850 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, for the next slide, please. So, if you go to this forestgis.com. 255 \ 00:32:29.260 --> 00:32:42.320 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: you've got, you can see on the right-hand side here, you've got data sets for this England Woodland Creation Officer for flood offer, for flood risk management, water quality, keeping rivers cool, riparian buffers. 256 \ 00:32:42.620 --> 00:32:54.560 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Oh, I don't know what they will mean. So, so this… you can find out what, potentially, you will be paid by DEFRA for managing your trees in that way. And there are a few examples in the next slides. 257 \ 00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:01.059 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So here's… this is, this is for Winchfield. This is flood risk and water quality. 258 \ 00:33:02.110 --> 00:33:12.730 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I'm not going to discuss these at all, but you can see there's a map, and these colors say we want to plant trees here for that purpose, for managing flood and water quality. Next one. 259 \ 00:33:13.570 --> 00:33:25.260 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So this is for… this is for nature recovery, so this is take… I think… I think what this means is you're being encouraged to plant trees on these established, green areas, so you can't see my cursor. 260 \ 00:33:25.260 --> 00:33:39.000 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: makes it hard. But the way where you get that darker green, that's saying, we want to encourage planting there to increase those woodland stands and make access for nature. So there's a payment for that, potentially. 261 \ 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:40.580 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next one. 262 \ 00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:42.630 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: riparian buffers. 263 \ 00:33:43.320 --> 00:33:44.440 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next one. 264 \ 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:53.329 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: social, so access to nature. So, if you plant trees here, we'll give you, you know, a few pence per tree, or whatever it is, to improve social. 265 \ 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.750 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Access. 266 \ 00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:58.320 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: SSI protection from ammonia. 267 \ 00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:00.290 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next. 268 \ 00:34:01.520 --> 00:34:10.150 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: That's it. So… so that's… I hope that's clear, that what… the strategy, the deference strategy is to say we want to encourage 269 \ 00:34:10.150 --> 00:34:11.780 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Woodland for timber. 270 \ 00:34:11.780 --> 00:34:30.420 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: It's not… but we also want to encourage leaving trees so that they do other good things, as we've been discussing, you know, creating… creating clean air, stopping… making soil stability, stopping things getting into the watercourses. So they've got all these other uses, which should be valued, and we should be able to pay subsidies for them. 271 \ 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:39.129 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, finally, in this presentation, I want to just turn to the parish-level opportunities, because I think there are some which haven't been recognized. 272 \ 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:57.330 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. So, these UCO grants are for a minimum area of 2 hectares, normally, so they're not available to small landowners and individual gardens. So, I had a go at DEFRA a couple of years ago, and we got them to come to visit HART. 273 \ 00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:01.500 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And we said to them, you know, couldn't we… 274 \ 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:08.130 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: couldn't we group together small landowners and say, well, you know, in Winchfield Parish, we've got so many 275 \ 00:35:08.130 --> 00:35:28.869 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: landowners who are prepared to put trees where you want them and gain these benefits of the UK subsidies. And to my surprise, DEFRA said, yes, we can. We will work with groups of non… and also non-contiguous, so you don't have to have a continuous stand of trees. They'll say, you know, you bunch them together, potentially. 276 \ 00:35:29.310 --> 00:35:41.190 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But you have to do… the problem was, you have to do it through a legal entity, such as a community interest company or a co-op, and that's… it's quite a lot of work. It's not… it's not an easy thing to do. 277 \ 00:35:41.830 --> 00:35:54.530 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, the question in this presentation was, is this an opportunity for Odium? And I was making a presentation to the Odium U3A about it, and I was just explaining how it would work. So, the next slide… 278 \ 00:35:55.230 --> 00:36:04.020 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: What you have to do, first of all, is to identify woodland opportunity areas, which… which, in Parish Online, we've got a dataset that does that. 279 \ 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:14.560 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Exclude areas that are earmarked for other purposes, say, for development of housing in the neighborhood or the local plan. Then identify who the landowners are. 280 \ 00:36:14.860 --> 00:36:20.800 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: group the landowners under a CIC or a co-op, and then apply for woodland grants. 281 \ 00:36:21.260 --> 00:36:31.379 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And also, it's important that if we're going to do this, we should also make sure that in our neighbourhood plans and local plans, we encourage the building of housing in timber. 282 \ 00:36:34.150 --> 00:36:40.569 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So, this was just showing Odium. So, this is the dataset that you probably recognize, which is the Friends of the Earth. 283 \ 00:36:40.730 --> 00:36:48.690 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: woodland opportunities. So what… what the Friends of the Earth did is they looked at the whole country and said, well, where can we find… where would we want to encourage woodland? 284 \ 00:36:48.800 --> 00:37:06.479 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: which is not higher quality, agricultural land, isn't a… it's not another habitat which we want to protect that's of higher value. And so that's… so these polygons show where woodlands opportunities should be. Next slide. 285 \ 00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:23.779 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And then we overlaid on that the current tree cover, which is also Friends of the Earth dataset, and you can then sort of start to see the, oh, so that opportunity here at the top is basically thickening an already existing stand of trees. 286 \ 00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:27.100 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So you can sort of see it makes sense. Next one. 287 \ 00:37:28.370 --> 00:37:39.850 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And then… so then we overlaid the land registry, polygons on that, so that we could say, well, there's an opportunity here, let's now talk to the landowner and see if he wants to join the club. 288 \ 00:37:40.650 --> 00:37:42.199 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Next slide. 289 \ 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:44.399 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Oh, is that it? 290 \ 00:37:44.810 --> 00:37:45.440 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Yep. 291 \ 00:37:46.930 --> 00:37:47.979 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I'm very sorry. 292 \ 00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:48.710 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: more. 293 \ 00:37:49.020 --> 00:38:00.450 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: That's fine, that's fine. I thought, I thought I'd put another couple. But I hope… I hope that's clear, that I think there is an opportunity for, at parish level, to say, well, let's see if we can identify 294 \ 00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:10.320 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Where we want to put trees to, you know, thicken a stand, or to make a hedgerow more viable, to make a corridor. 295 \ 00:38:10.540 --> 00:38:13.410 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: work out what grants we can get from UCO, 296 \ 00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:27.529 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: and then talk to local… I think for urban, you know, for urban development of, of, business and opportunities, business opportunities, you could have a local extractor who would process the wood. 297 \ 00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:43.400 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: take it to your local sawmill, or a local engineering company, turn your timber into engineered products, and build houses from timber. And in a sort of perfect world, all that would work, and it could be quite a big industry for the country. 298 \ 00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:45.590 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Thank you. 299 \ 00:38:45.590 --> 00:39:04.159 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: That's utterly fascinating, Tristan. Thank you so much. I'm already sort of planning how to approach our parish council and say, come on guys, let's get with this, because it's obviously beneficial in all sorts of ways. So, fantastic, thank you very much. Let me go on to the questioning, and Stuart, would you start the ball rolling, please? 300 \ 00:39:04.160 --> 00:39:11.330 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And I'd just like to say thank you for a very interesting, presentation. 301 \ 00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:16.499 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I think I'm thinking about things in a slightly different manner now, so thank you for that. 302 \ 00:39:16.970 --> 00:39:19.540 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I would take your task on, 303 \ 00:39:19.850 --> 00:39:22.809 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Wooden houses only lasting a few hundred years. 304 \ 00:39:23.290 --> 00:39:29.490 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I think this house, they think, was built in the 13th or 14th century. 305 \ 00:39:29.490 --> 00:39:30.020 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: You know. 306 \ 00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:31.810 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Clearly still going. 307 \ 00:39:32.090 --> 00:39:34.849 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I'm just saying it's a percentage, it's a very strong perception. 308 \ 00:39:36.080 --> 00:39:41.700 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Yeah, but I guess construction, when this place was built, it would be the standard construction. 309 \ 00:39:41.700 --> 00:39:42.100 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah. 310 \ 00:39:42.100 --> 00:39:42.990 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: material. 311 \ 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:56.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Although, of course, the other thing is, it's not… it is true that very old buildings have very ancient timber frames, but I think that the opportunity for these glulam houses uses a lot more timber. 312 \ 00:39:56.560 --> 00:40:02.850 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Dude, it's all timber, whereas your house is probably a lot of bricks and other things as well. 313 \ 00:40:03.330 --> 00:40:08.530 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: It sits on, I think there's about 3 bricks plinth around it. 314 \ 00:40:08.530 --> 00:40:09.070 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: them. 315 \ 00:40:09.070 --> 00:40:11.550 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And the rest of it is… 316 \ 00:40:11.790 --> 00:40:14.710 \ Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Straight timber and lath and plaster. 317 \ 00:40:15.820 --> 00:40:19.370 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: But of course, you can get skyscrapers now, which you couldn't do in the 13th century. 318 \ 00:40:19.370 --> 00:40:19.730 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: the E. 319 \ 00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:20.190 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Usually. 320 \ 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:22.239 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: People less reluctant. 321 \ 00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:24.600 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I take your point, Stuart, that's absolutely right. 322 \ 00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:30.040 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Thank you. Thank you anyway, Stuart. Jane, would you like to chat, please? And you're muted at the moment. 323 \ 00:40:31.020 --> 00:40:33.060 \ Jane Carr: I'm muted, can you hear me now? 324 \ 00:40:33.060 --> 00:40:34.040 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Absolutely, yeah. 325 \ 00:40:34.520 --> 00:40:38.749 \ Jane Carr: I've got two questions, if I could. 326 \ 00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:52.530 \ Jane Carr: First, with the delignification, when you're stuffing the wood with… when you've taken the ligninine out, and you're stuffing the wood, with… and I can't remember what it was, how, 327 \ 00:40:53.430 --> 00:41:10.740 \ Jane Carr: How… because presumably at some point, these pieces of wood are going to have to be got rid of, and what are we stuffing in there, that would be, you know, no good for the environment, or… or that sort of thing? 328 \ 00:41:11.190 --> 00:41:13.250 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah, that's a good question. I did… 329 \ 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:21.490 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think there's a lot of experiments of how you fill these things in, and if you look at those two websites that I put in the presentation, they've got some details about them. 330 \ 00:41:21.600 --> 00:41:31.199 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And so, it's a common thing that people say, well, that could be very poisonous, you know, if it's epoxy resin, how do we get rid of it, and all that stuff. I've… I frankly have no idea. 331 \ 00:41:31.390 --> 00:41:32.090 \ Jane Carr: Okay. 332 \ 00:41:33.050 --> 00:41:40.530 \ Jane Carr: Okay, second question was, when you talked about the 8.4% of woodland. 333 \ 00:41:41.170 --> 00:41:48.840 \ Jane Carr: That would be, presumably, this is what we would be, cutting and replanting. 334 \ 00:41:49.010 --> 00:41:58.030 \ Jane Carr: And there's still, within the 16.5% that we wanted to cover England with, 335 \ 00:41:58.850 --> 00:42:16.910 \ Jane Carr: what percentage of land for growing our own food gets included in there? Because that's another vital thing that we're going to have to do. And if we're building all these houses and having all this woodland, are we going to have anything left to grow our own food on? 336 \ 00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:23.179 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Well, yes, I think plenty, because if you've got 16.5, that leaves the rest of the land 337 \ 00:42:23.380 --> 00:42:35.949 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: You know, as for agricultural land. So we're only increasing, we're currently at 10% in England, 13%, so we're only talking about going from 13% in the UK up to 16.5, so it's quite a small difference. 338 \ 00:42:36.150 --> 00:42:37.199 \ Jane Carr: And I think for. 339 \ 00:42:37.200 --> 00:42:44.970 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think for nature, I think… I think it's well… I think it's accepted that you should have more trees. Trees are wonderful. 340 \ 00:42:45.660 --> 00:43:03.980 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: you know, for biodiversity and soil stability and air quality, they do all sorts of wonderful things, and I think it's accepted we've got too little, we're way behind. So what I… my argument is that, of course, of course that means you can't grow, you know, wheat if you've got trees, but it's getting that balance right. 341 \ 00:43:04.130 --> 00:43:08.870 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But my argument is that within that 16.5%, if we get there. 342 \ 00:43:08.870 --> 00:43:32.180 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: There's plenty… you know, we could use all that timber and manage… and not… not clear-filling, you know, not… it would be selective, so you'd maintain, you know, mixed… a mixed… whatever you wanted for your birds and butterflies and, you know, flora and fauna and all those other ecosystem services, but you would also have a section of it where you'd say, we're going to manage this woodland and thin it out, and use that timber for construction. 343 \ 00:43:32.650 --> 00:43:35.319 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So it's a balance of all those different things. 344 \ 00:43:35.610 --> 00:43:36.100 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think. 345 \ 00:43:36.100 --> 00:43:55.149 \ Jane Carr: It's always been my feeling that instead of having this system that we've got now, where it's a nationwide forestry England who comes in and clear fells and what have you, that if we actually had… there are so many people in this country who would love 346 \ 00:43:55.230 --> 00:44:06.459 \ Jane Carr: to live their life in woodland and to manage woodland. And if we had individual little blocks of woodland that were managed by somebody that loved that woodland and did it 347 \ 00:44:06.610 --> 00:44:13.460 \ Jane Carr: With… I'm gonna use silly words here, but with compassion and thought. 348 \ 00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:15.000 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah, I agree, I completely agree. 349 \ 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.269 \ Jane Carr: all out, then… 350 \ 00:44:16.270 --> 00:44:37.039 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I completely agree. And when we talked… when I… when we had deferection, another interesting thing was they walked around our parish, and they looked at the little stands, and they said, yeah, this would be really good. And there were also grants for making tracks, so that when you extract the timber, you could, you know, the timber extractors don't get bogged down. So there are grants for everything, potentially. 351 \ 00:44:37.040 --> 00:44:37.830 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So I think… 352 \ 00:44:37.830 --> 00:44:38.919 \ Jane Carr: Pull it out. 353 \ 00:44:39.060 --> 00:44:41.140 \ Jane Carr: Yeah, yeah. 354 \ 00:44:41.140 --> 00:44:44.540 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: There were lots of, you know, they were very enthusiastic, and they were saying. 355 \ 00:44:45.120 --> 00:44:52.429 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: this should be done, and one of the reasons why that… I forgot to say this, one of the reasons why the England Trees Plan didn't work 356 \ 00:44:52.580 --> 00:45:04.700 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: very well, was that the only people who were applying for the grants were the current owners of industrial forest. So what… you're missing out, the whole, what you've just said, the whole idea about localism was just missed. 357 \ 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:11.280 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: And that's why they said, you know, potentially, if you can get yourselves into a group, we'll deal with you at parish level. 358 \ 00:45:11.830 --> 00:45:12.500 \ Jane Carr: I don't want to… 359 \ 00:45:12.500 --> 00:45:13.350 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: encouraging. 360 \ 00:45:13.520 --> 00:45:24.909 \ Jane Carr: And yesterday evening, I went to, the Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust, has a wonderful lady called Megan, and I can't remember her surname, but she talked to us about the seven 361 \ 00:45:25.590 --> 00:45:29.990 \ Jane Carr: what is it called? The 7 Treescaping 362 \ 00:45:30.140 --> 00:45:41.019 \ Jane Carr: and what they're doing. This is not necessarily timber for construction, but it's… they're putting in orchards and, trying to, because obviously the… 363 \ 00:45:41.160 --> 00:45:42.990 \ Jane Carr: Trees, fruit trees. 364 \ 00:45:43.380 --> 00:45:57.119 \ Jane Carr: are very good, too, and they… and we can eat what they produce, rather than build with what they produce. So, I've just… I've just had… so this is two really hopeful things that I've listened to in the last 24 hours, and it's wonderful. 365 \ 00:45:57.120 --> 00:45:57.660 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Good. 366 \ 00:45:57.660 --> 00:45:58.629 \ Jane Carr: Thank you. Good, thank you. 367 \ 00:45:58.630 --> 00:45:59.220 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Thank you. 368 \ 00:45:59.990 --> 00:46:00.510 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Mmm. 369 \ 00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:02.250 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Go to David, please. 370 \ 00:46:05.380 --> 00:46:20.670 \ David Morgan-Jones: Tristram, I know you're going about concrete. There's some quite innovative stuff going on at the moment. The… I think it's the Americans have actually started mixing carbon black into concrete. 371 \ 00:46:20.900 --> 00:46:23.739 \ David Morgan-Jones: And it turns them into massive batteries. 372 \ 00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:25.030 \ David Morgan-Jones: Shit. 373 \ 00:46:25.030 --> 00:46:26.170 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Chris, I heard about that? 374 \ 00:46:26.170 --> 00:46:27.020 \ David Morgan-Jones: Yeah, so… 375 \ 00:46:27.020 --> 00:46:27.990 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: I see you doing that? 376 \ 00:46:27.990 --> 00:46:31.550 \ David Morgan-Jones: Yeah, 30 to 40 cubic meters of concrete. 377 \ 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:34.940 \ David Morgan-Jones: Is enough to power an entire house. 378 \ 00:46:35.260 --> 00:46:51.370 \ David Morgan-Jones: I'm not sure how much is actually put into a base build of a normal house, but, you know, that would be, quite an interesting, sort of, intermesh between wood and, carbon capture and power storage. 379 \ 00:46:52.560 --> 00:47:09.879 \ David Morgan-Jones: The other thing is a more practical one, Tristram. Have you actually got that uploaded somewhere, all that sort of amazing stuff you've been putting, on the Great Collaboration website? I mean, the reason why I'm saying that is we've… we've started doing some work here in uShot about, ancient woodland. 380 \ 00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:17.110 \ David Morgan-Jones: But I was completely unaware of… A, the grants. 381 \ 00:47:17.390 --> 00:47:23.200 \ David Morgan-Jones: and B, the need to actually harvest some of this very mature 382 \ 00:47:24.030 --> 00:47:31.779 \ David Morgan-Jones: Or wood. Because actually we've got a lot of very mature trees, which actually could go… 383 \ 00:47:31.950 --> 00:47:35.630 \ David Morgan-Jones: And allow us to actually plant younger trees. 384 \ 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:41.600 \ David Morgan-Jones: Whilst at the same time stripping out the parasitic rhododendron that's bloody invading everywhere. 385 \ 00:47:43.410 --> 00:47:54.999 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Well, yes, it will be in the… well, it'll now be in, Graham's reg… this presentation will be in Graham's store, so yes, it will be in the Collaboration from now, I guess. 386 \ 00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:55.920 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Alright. 387 \ 00:47:56.900 --> 00:48:02.949 \ David Morgan-Jones: I was rather hoping for an idiot's guide, a nice little handout I could take to the parish council and go. 388 \ 00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:06.179 \ David Morgan-Jones: Hey guys, this is what we could do. 389 \ 00:48:07.420 --> 00:48:13.250 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But if you want me to come talk to them, I'll do that. But you… actually, you should ring. I'll give you the contact of the… 390 \ 00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:21.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: DEFRA, can't remember what they call them, Woodland Creation Office, so they got… they've got a very nice chap called Gil Martin came and talked to us in the heart. 391 \ 00:48:22.090 --> 00:48:30.590 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Which was open, by the way, to all the parachutes, you probably missed it, but they were really encouraging, and they're very enthusiastic, so if you ring them up and say, would they come and 392 \ 00:48:30.730 --> 00:48:31.830 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: advise you. 393 \ 00:48:31.830 --> 00:48:39.070 \ David Morgan-Jones: I'll come back to you on that, Trisha. I mean, our parish is relatively unique. I mean, I think we're between 35%, maybe 40% tree. 394 \ 00:48:39.490 --> 00:48:40.250 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Broad. 395 \ 00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:47.790 \ David Morgan-Jones: So, you know, we could do quite a lot to actually make something useful out of that. Okay, thank you very much. 396 \ 00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.000 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Good morning, Andrew, or afternoon, Andrew. 397 \ 00:48:51.210 --> 00:48:51.860 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Yeah. 398 \ 00:48:51.860 --> 00:49:08.719 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Sorry I was late, everybody. I was… I was… I was busy… I've got a delivery of logs this afternoon, and I was busy outside clearing the drive. I live on the edge of the Somerset levels, and all our houses have got their feet in very damp clay. 399 \ 00:49:09.340 --> 00:49:22.269 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: The new houses are being built with timber frames, all of them, and some of them with more than just the framework, and I'm just wondering what happens to, 400 \ 00:49:22.370 --> 00:49:31.580 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: timber houses, if they're rather wet at the bottom. Has that issue… has that problem been solved? 401 \ 00:49:31.580 --> 00:49:47.010 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think… well, I think it has, that's the point about the engineered timbers. So the CLTs, I mean, I don't have the specs, but they are very, you know, they don't absorb water, they're very dimensionally stable, they don't swell, and that's because when they make those, 402 \ 00:49:47.830 --> 00:50:05.679 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: the sheets of veneer that they then cross-ply. They glue them with a glue that makes the water not able to penetrate. And that's back to Jane's question, what's that doing to the environment? I'm not an expert on that. Yeah. But I think you'll find the timbers now are guaranteed for, I don't know how long. 403 \ 00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:22.769 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I use… I've been doing some window work in my house using a thing called a coya, which is another treated wood, and it's guaranteed for 50 years that it… and I've had it… I've had some… it's… it's wonderful stuff, and it's… it's basically pine that they then, under pressure, they… they… 404 \ 00:50:22.940 --> 00:50:32.740 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: inject it deep into the timber, something that makes it… changes the chemistry of the wood and makes it… makes it water-stable. And I had… I had a plank of… 405 \ 00:50:32.740 --> 00:50:53.639 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I, for an experiment, I put a small plank of untreated pine, and then a bit of this aquoia, the same shape, and left it outside on a garden roof for 20 years, and the pine disappeared, and the Akoya was absolutely the same. It hadn't… it was a completely square plank. It was the same color, nothing had penetrated it. It really works. 406 \ 00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:04.220 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Yeah, I'm asking because, you know, they tell you when you go and buy wood that's supposedly been treated, they say 20 years. You know, well, 20 years is… 407 \ 00:51:04.220 --> 00:51:04.970 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Well, the quiet… 408 \ 00:51:04.970 --> 00:51:09.379 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: I live in a house which is 300 years old. Yeah. 409 \ 00:51:09.600 --> 00:51:20.549 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But I… I mean, they don't know how long it will last, but I'm very… I'm very confident my Okoya works, and it's… it's… you know, I've had a… a room built out of it, and it hasn't moved at all. 410 \ 00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:46.099 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Andrew, maybe there's scope for a combination there. If you build your ground floor, your foundations, and your basement from concrete, which has got this carbon black in it, that one wall of your basement is enough to store the electricity you need to run your normal house out of hours, and then the rest of it can be your timber frame, so you get around that business of the rot, or potential rot, or in fact, what happens after 411 \ 00:51:46.100 --> 00:51:55.690 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: 50 years, you know. We all have this sort of managed expiry date now. We're all used to things that start breaking as soon as the warranty has ended. 412 \ 00:51:55.690 --> 00:51:56.520 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Shit. 413 \ 00:51:56.550 --> 00:52:08.719 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: we may need to do a combination. Let me move to the chat. There's a question there from Frank, which says, is there an opportunity for mixed species woodland to create building timber? 414 \ 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:27.220 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yes, absolutely, Frank. That's… and mixed species is really good, because if you… if you want to optimize your tree planting to, you know, if you… if you're on the edge of a river, and you're trying to stop runoff, and you want stability, and you want to grow nuts and fruit, you know, all those things have… have, a place. So… so… 415 \ 00:52:27.220 --> 00:52:31.980 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: what DEFRA is aiming for is mixed woodland, which is best for the environment. 416 \ 00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:47.849 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But then all that timber can be used in different products, because you don't… you don't need any… you know, you don't need the wood itself to have any characteristics of straight planks, or good grain, or whatever it is, because it all gets veneered and bodged up into these products. So they can… you can basically use any wood you like. 417 \ 00:52:48.580 --> 00:52:57.179 \ Frank Hemming: That's very encouraging, and I thought that would be the answer, but I imagine in the recent past, it's been 418 \ 00:52:57.750 --> 00:53:09.169 \ Frank Hemming: the same species, and… and I've just been looking at some woodland. I'm in Herefordshire, and we've just had a look at our common in the 419 \ 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:15.090 \ Frank Hemming: There's a certain amount of woodland that the parish is responsible for. And… 420 \ 00:53:15.220 --> 00:53:31.120 \ Frank Hemming: The, tree… our local tree expert was taking me around, and, we have a certain amount of ash dye back, but it is not… 421 \ 00:53:31.570 --> 00:53:44.099 \ Frank Hemming: It's not desperate, and he was saying that in Wales, where you've got a lot of ash woodland, that is where it's serious. And, I imagine that ash was planted 422 \ 00:53:44.540 --> 00:54:04.690 \ Frank Hemming: Specifically, as in a sort of plantation manner, and that's where you get the problems that we've got, residual old bits of woodland, and the ash is self-seeded, and so on. So that's better off. That's one thing. The other thing, I'm interested in the food issue, because I'm quite interested in 423 \ 00:54:04.690 --> 00:54:06.110 \ Frank Hemming: spreading… 424 \ 00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:22.150 \ Frank Hemming: good sweet chestnut trees around, and when I say good, my interest is they've got nuts on that you can use, and there's been an awful lot of sweet chestnut planted in our parish in the past. It's used for hot poles. 425 \ 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:26.609 \ Frank Hemming: So, it was coppiced, now it's overgrown, but the nuts are not… 426 \ 00:54:26.740 --> 00:54:38.220 \ Frank Hemming: nothing worth having. So, I think there's a lot of work to be done, because with changing in climate, these… we can grow decent sweet chestnuts. 427 \ 00:54:38.390 --> 00:54:40.480 \ Frank Hemming: They've got to have a certain amount of… 428 \ 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:49.490 \ Frank Hemming: space around them. I think if they're enclosed in woodland, or they get too shaded, they're not going to work very well from that point of view. But then again. 429 \ 00:54:49.810 --> 00:54:57.829 \ Frank Hemming: There's walnuts as well, and so on, so that… just partly taking out the question of where's the food going to come from? 430 \ 00:54:59.320 --> 00:54:59.959 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: It was really… 431 \ 00:54:59.960 --> 00:55:00.340 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Not sure. 432 \ 00:55:00.340 --> 00:55:14.970 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: report the other day that said that the Forestry Commission, which was responsible for all those dense pine forests that cover all swathes of our landscape, are now changing tack, and they're very much more into mixed woodland. 433 \ 00:55:14.970 --> 00:55:15.570 \ Frank Hemming: good news. 434 \ 00:55:15.570 --> 00:55:24.210 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Yeah, it's all the reasons that Tristram has mentioned, that they've got over that initial requirement to get the fastest growing wood that they could, and now they're changing that. 435 \ 00:55:24.210 --> 00:55:30.160 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: But the other thing that interests me, though, is that the, we talk about maximizing our food production, arable… 436 \ 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:48.029 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: farming, but that seems to be massively damaging to the soil and to the watercourses. And so then you think, well, if you can't do that, what are we going to do? So I think where our food comes from is a really interesting question, but I think you've got to… I think you need more trees 437 \ 00:55:48.030 --> 00:55:57.169 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Try to produce some food from the trees, but then also do other things, have multiple layers of farms in a, you know, in a… what do you call it? Hydroponic, like. 438 \ 00:55:57.660 --> 00:56:04.500 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: So you don't have a monoculture into the soil, you've got… you've got a… the hydroponic. 439 \ 00:56:04.970 --> 00:56:19.829 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: fields, basically, stacked, I don't know what you do. Or you ferment, you know, you ferment things and make food that way, so there's… I think the whole question of where our food comes from and how that will change over the next 50 years is very interesting. 440 \ 00:56:20.650 --> 00:56:29.300 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: I agree. We do have… there's a point, a question from Jane in the chat, which is, please, could you spell La Coya properly? 441 \ 00:56:29.300 --> 00:56:34.140 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I think it's A-C-C-O-Y-A. Somebody look it up. 442 \ 00:56:34.290 --> 00:56:37.000 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: I really recommend it, it's brilliant. 443 \ 00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:39.790 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: And Jamie, that's… That sounds right to me. 444 \ 00:56:40.700 --> 00:56:43.570 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Do you have a separate question, Jay? No, that was it. Right. 445 \ 00:56:44.090 --> 00:56:45.869 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: You're on mute again. 446 \ 00:56:46.790 --> 00:56:56.349 \ Jane Carr: No, I just wanted to say that, this question of where our food's coming from, I think, firstly, I think we have to, 447 \ 00:56:56.890 --> 00:57:00.439 \ Jane Carr: Change our ideas to a certain extent about what we eat. 448 \ 00:57:00.570 --> 00:57:05.419 \ Jane Carr: And also, it's… it's already coming with… 449 \ 00:57:05.630 --> 00:57:23.099 \ Jane Carr: permaculture and forest gardens, and things like that, where… to try and step away from the monocultures and growing our food. Like you're talking about the mixed forests, mixed foods. My garden has become 450 \ 00:57:23.140 --> 00:57:31.860 \ Jane Carr: you know, mixed, I jumble all my vegetables in together, and they all kind of look after each other. I think, I think we… it's… 451 \ 00:57:31.930 --> 00:57:33.940 \ Jane Carr: It… things are changing. 452 \ 00:57:34.830 --> 00:57:36.199 \ Jane Carr: Slow but sure. 453 \ 00:57:36.200 --> 00:58:00.340 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: I think they are, they're changing hugely, and it's actually very exciting to be part of it. And your idea of localism, I think that the transition towns and everything of people trying to get things sorted out the way they want to live in a local community, rather than in a nationalized government, is picking up speed. I think it's going to be an exciting time. The technology is getting fantastic as well. 454 \ 00:58:00.930 --> 00:58:03.200 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Let's move on to Gary, please. 455 \ 00:58:03.630 --> 00:58:16.360 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Hi, yeah, I just had a question. Does anybody know where they go for advice on what trees we should be planting because of the conditions we're going to be facing going forward with climate change? 456 \ 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:24.940 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Planted a lot of trees last year, and they, of course, they absolutely struggled with the drought and the ridiculously high weathers we… high temperatures we had. 457 \ 00:58:25.200 --> 00:58:32.099 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: And I've always found it quite difficult going anywhere online to say, well, you know, what tree should we be planting now for the. 458 \ 00:58:32.100 --> 00:58:33.780 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Defra, I think Defra… 459 \ 00:58:33.980 --> 00:58:34.380 \ Frank Hemming: Definitely. 460 \ 00:58:34.380 --> 00:58:40.569 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: does have a website. I'll try to find its name, but they've got a map. 461 \ 00:58:40.730 --> 00:58:56.519 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Which does specifically that. It says, if you look 50 years ahead, this is what we recommend. And I think it… I think it's also based on the soil and the water quality, so it's… it's a… it's a sort of future look at what you should be planting, depending on where you are in the country. 462 \ 00:58:56.740 --> 00:58:57.610 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yeah, that's for sure. 463 \ 00:58:57.610 --> 00:58:59.350 \ Frank Hemming: Can I make a plea for… 464 \ 00:58:59.350 --> 00:59:00.819 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Stream doesn't collapse as well. 465 \ 00:59:01.660 --> 00:59:03.490 \ Frank Hemming: Just another thing. 466 \ 00:59:03.490 --> 00:59:11.839 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Because Spanish are kind of, you know, sticking the spokes there, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, don't worry, this is the climate we're going to have in 50 years' time. Oh, no, we're going to have a completely different one. 467 \ 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.489 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Well, at least they're trying, so that might help you. 468 \ 00:59:16.200 --> 00:59:16.850 \ Frank Hemming: Assuming… 469 \ 00:59:16.850 --> 00:59:17.960 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Definitely, yeah. 470 \ 00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:36.870 \ Frank Hemming: Can I just say, assuming hot summers at the moment, and dry conditions, walnuts and sweet chestnuts, and also, actually, apple trees, mainly originate from Central Asia, and that's the climate 471 \ 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:44.220 \ Frank Hemming: where you would not get… you'd get a lot of cold in the winter, but the summer would be really hot. So, 472 \ 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:58.649 \ Frank Hemming: there's a lot… a deep… also, they'll get a deep root, whereas trees that are used to a more Atlantic climate will have a much shallower root. So, yeah, go for the Central Asia ones. 473 \ 01:00:01.020 --> 01:00:18.479 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Blended. Well, that's really been a very fascinating subject, and if nobody has any more questions, I have one question for everybody, please, which is, could each person put into the chat one topic on which they would like to see a presentation in the future? 474 \ 01:00:18.610 --> 01:00:37.879 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Because I've not run out of ideas, but I think it's time to incorporate ideas from everybody. So I would love a contribution, please, just one per person, of what you would really like to see as a future Banter session. And then that will give me stuff to pursue and find people to talk to us about it. 475 \ 01:00:38.130 --> 01:00:42.450 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: My brain doesn't work fast enough for that, Graham. I'll email you. 476 \ 01:00:42.450 --> 01:00:42.920 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: admit you. 477 \ 01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:43.370 \ Frank Hemming: Pretty good. 478 \ 01:00:43.370 --> 01:00:47.159 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: This'll work fine, Andrew. Why don't you put the cat onto it? 479 \ 01:00:49.450 --> 01:00:50.599 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: Sorry about the cat. 480 \ 01:00:50.600 --> 01:00:53.710 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: No, no, no, no, I'm looking to see what he's gonna type. 481 \ 01:00:54.840 --> 01:01:00.580 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: He's just in the process of knocking my pen off the table, actually. 482 \ 01:01:03.040 --> 01:01:08.380 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Okay, so, we're still waiting for the spelling of acquire. 483 \ 01:01:08.590 --> 01:01:09.720 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: To come up as a chair. 484 \ 01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:12.449 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: That's correct. It was a double C. 485 \ 01:01:12.450 --> 01:01:13.230 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Yeah, he's understood. 486 \ 01:01:13.230 --> 01:01:21.030 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: note, by the way, put a little note in the chat, about 10 top trees for urban areas. 487 \ 01:01:21.030 --> 01:01:22.100 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Yeah, I saw that. 488 \ 01:01:22.100 --> 01:01:29.000 \ Andrew Clegg, Martock, Somerset: by a website. I'm not… Not sure about them, but the suggestion. 489 \ 01:01:29.190 --> 01:01:34.160 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: And in answer to Gary, yes, please, absolutely. Would that be coming from you yourself? 490 \ 01:01:36.530 --> 01:01:37.790 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yeah, I can do that. 491 \ 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:41.540 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Okay, splendid. Thank you. I will be in touch. 492 \ 01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:46.560 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: In about 3 minutes. 493 \ 01:01:46.560 --> 01:01:48.590 \ Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I'm off to lunch. 494 \ 01:01:48.590 --> 01:01:51.640 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Okay. 495 \ 01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:59.400 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: So, I'm still looking for ideas pouring in, which is remarkable how small the pouring is at the moment. 496 \ 01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:02.930 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: No, I'm… I'm taking Andrew's thing, I'm gonna email you. 497 \ 01:02:02.930 --> 01:02:03.510 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Okay. 498 \ 01:02:03.830 --> 01:02:04.910 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Alright, what would you like to say. 499 \ 01:02:04.910 --> 01:02:05.960 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: consider it. 500 \ 01:02:06.290 --> 01:02:08.479 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Remember, I have a list of you all, so I'll be checking. 501 \ 01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:09.450 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: No, okay. 502 \ 01:02:09.450 --> 01:02:22.770 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Well, thank you all so much for coming. I appreciate your time and your inputs and everything else, and thank you particularly for Tristram for a very splendid presentation. Thank you. Full of great ideas and thoughts. Yep, exactly. 503 \ 01:02:22.770 --> 01:02:23.910 \ tristram cary Winchfield Hants: Good, thank you. 504 \ 01:02:23.910 --> 01:02:25.390 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: See you all next time. Thank you so much. 505 \ 01:02:25.390 --> 01:02:25.710 \ David Morgan-Jones: All right. 506 \ 01:02:25.710 --> 01:02:26.220 \ Graham Stoddart-Stones - Bembridge: Take care. 507 \ 01:02:26.220 --> 01:02:27.540 \ David Morgan-Jones: Thanks, everybody. Bye. *** #### Markdown (text only) version of the presentation: ## English Woodland and Timber Construction **Tristram Cary — September 2026** ### 2. UK has very little woodland #### Percentage of forest and woodland, 2024 | Area | Forest and woodland cover | | ------------- | ------------------------- | | UK | 13% | | England | 10% | | Europe: EU | 31% | | Europe: total | 46% | | World | 31% | *Source: Forestry Commission.* Our lack of woodland is one of the main reasons why our wildlife and habitats are so depleted. The UK imports more than 80% of its timber, second only to China. ### 3. Why is the UK so short of woodland? * **3000 BC:** 60–80% woodland cover. * **2000 BC:** Neolithic farmers cleared trees for crops and grazing, faster than in Europe. * From Tudor times, the Royal Navy used 2,000–6,000 mature oaks per warship. * The Industrial Revolution used land for mines, railways, towns and farms to support a growing population. * By 1919, woodland cover was 5%, its lowest point. * The Forestry Commission was founded in 1919 to support woodland regeneration. ### 4. Government woodland policy after Brexit #### England Trees Action Plan 2021–2024 Now the Environment Improvement Plan (EIP). * £100 million per year to triple woodland creation from 10,000 hectares per year to 30,000 hectares per year. * Target: 16.5% tree cover by 2050. * Progress badly behind schedule. #### Timber in Construction Roadmap 2025 * Reduce embodied carbon in buildings. * Stimulate woodland creation and active forest management. * Support economic growth. ### 5. Mature woodland and carbon **Slide claim:** Mature woodland does not sequester carbon; it only stores it. *The graph, for unthinned oak, shows carbon storage increasing towards an equilibrium while the annual sequestration rate peaks early and then declines.* *Source: Natural England Research Report NERR094, April 2021.* ### 6. Woodland management options | Option | Carbon storage | Harvest | | ------ | -------------- | --------------- | | 1 | Small store | Maximum harvest | | 2 | Larger store | Smaller harvest | | 3 | Maximum store | Minimum harvest | *The slide uses the woodland carbon storage and sequestration graph to illustrate these options.* ### 7. Long-term carbon sequestration **Slide claim:** Only peatlands go on sequestering carbon over the long term. *The diagram compares carbon stored in habitat soils and vegetation over centuries to millennia. Peatland storage continues rising, while woodland, saltmarsh, grassland and other habitats held in succession approach plateaus.* *Source: Natural England Research Report NERR094, April 2021.* ### 8. Albedo **Albedo:** The percentage of sunlight reflected from the Earth’s surface. The slide states that woodland absorbs 90% of the sun’s heat and concludes: > Unmanaged ancient woodland is bad for global warming. *An illustration compares the reflectivity of surfaces including snow, clouds, sand, soil, crops, meadows, forest and water.* *Source: Wikipedia.* ### 9. Timber for construction * 40% of man-made carbon comes from the construction industry, mostly from making concrete and steel. * Using timber is increasingly a much better alternative. * Wooden construction reduces “embedded carbon” by approximately 35% compared with concrete and steel. * Wooden construction also creates a “permanent” carbon store. #### Barriers * There is little tradition of timber houses in the UK. * There is a perception that wooden houses will not last. ### 10. Engineered timber Timber for construction is increasingly engineered to make it stronger, dimensionally stable, fireproof, rot-proof and water resistant. Examples: * Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs). * Cross-Laminated Timber (CLT). * Glued laminated panels, or glulams. *The slide includes images of the three materials.* ### 11. Mjøstårnet The slide describes **Mjøstårnet, Trondheim**, as the tallest wooden building, at **280 feet and 16 floors**. *Photographs illustrate the building.* ### 12. Black and White Building, Shoreditch *Photographs of the Black and White office building in Shoreditch.* ### 13. Lewes Phoenix Project * Located in the South Downs National Park. * 700 timber homes. * Will store 500,000 tonnes CO₂e. * Construction is now underway. *The slide includes project images.* ### 14. Timber architecture *Image-only slide showing a large interior with branching timber columns and an intricate timber roof structure.* ### 15. Timber homes *Image-only slide showing two examples of timber houses: a contemporary timber-clad home and a more traditional house.* ### 16. Superwood **By InventWood and Woodoo.** *The diagram shows the following material-processing sequence:* 1. Natural wood. 2. Delignification. 3. Delignified wood. 4. Matrix infiltration. 5. Infiltrated delignified wood. 6. Densification. 7. Delignified wood reinforced polymer (DWRP). ### 17. Superwood performance comparison *Claims reproduced from the slide’s comparison graphic.* | Feature | Superwood | Traditional wood | Steel | Concrete | | ---------------- | ---------------------------------------------- | --------------------- | ------------------------------------ | ----------------------- | | Fire safety | Class A fire rating | Class B, C | Loses integrity at high temperatures | Limited fire protection | | Strength | Up to 10 times the strength-to-weight of steel | Lower strength | High strength but heavy | Compression only | | Durability | Resists moisture, termites and rot | Vulnerable | Corrosion risk | Cracks over time | | Weight | Six times lighter than steel | Lightweight | Heavy | Heavy | | Carbon footprint | 90% lower than steel | Natural sequestration | High emissions | High emissions | ### 18. UK housing target *Three-bedroom home equivalents.* | Requirement or assumption | Amount | | ---------------------------- | -------------------- | | Growth target for new homes | 300,000 per year | | Number of homes in the UK | 30 million | | Average life of homes | 100 years | | Therefore, need to rebuild | 300,000 per year | | **Total residential target** | **600,000 per year** | | Commercial buildings | 300,000 per year | | **Total buildings** | **900,000 per year** | ### 19. Woodland area required for timber construction | Measure | Timber frame | SIP | CLT / Glulam | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- | ------------ | ------ | ------------ | | Timber per three-bedroom house, m³ | 12 | 8 | 35 | | Annual extraction from mature pine/fir plantation, m³ per hectare | 15 | 15 | 15 | | Hectares per house | 0.8 | 0.53 | 2.33 | | Square kilometres per house | 0.008 | 0.0053 | 0.023 | | Square kilometres for 600,000 houses | 4,800 | 3,180 | 13,800 | | Percentage of UK area, 243,610 km² | 2.0% | 1.3% | 5.6% | | Square kilometres for 900,000 houses | 7,200 | 4,770 | 20,700 | | Percentage of UK area | 3% | 1.95% | 8.4% | ### 20. Conclusion and notes * The UK woodland target of 16.5% cover by 2050 is easily enough to fulfil the UK’s complete timber requirement. * Especially if mature and ancient woodland is managed so that it can sequester “new” carbon. * Engineered wood can use any sort of timber. Large, straight planks are no longer needed. ### 21. Financial viability The UK lags far behind Europe, particularly Austria and Scandinavia, in engineered wood production because of: * Smaller forests and woodland. * More mixed species. * Less established infrastructure. Defra is now free, after the Common Agricultural Policy, to subsidise woodland for other ecosystem services, including: * Soil stability. * Biodiversity. * Clean air. * Shade. * Flood prevention. * Water quality. * Access to nature. Therefore: * Subsidies can be designed to make timber for construction financially viable. * Extraction and engineering are making good progress. * UK engineered wood has been growing at 15% per year since 2015, from a very low base. ### 22. England Woodland Creation Offer The **England Woodland Creation Offer (EWCO)** allows payments to be “stacked” for the same piece of woodland, for example: * Woodland carbon credits. * Biodiversity units. * Flood mitigation. * Access to nature. * Other services. ### 23. Woodland mapping [Forester GIS Map Browser](https://www.forestergis.com/Apps/MapBrowser/) *The slide shows a map with selectable woodland and environmental opportunity layers.* ### 24. Winchfield: flood risk and water quality *Map centred on grid reference SU 769 535, showing water-quality and flood-management woodland opportunities.* ### 25. Winchfield: nature recovery *Map centred on SU 769 535, showing higher- and lower-priority areas in the nature recovery network.* ### 26. Winchfield: riparian buffers *Map centred on SU 769 535, showing opportunities for woodland buffers beside rivers.* ### 27. Winchfield: social benefits *Map centred on SU 769 535, displaying the EWCO social-benefit layer.* ### 28. Winchfield: SSSI protection and ammonia *Map centred on SU 769 535, showing the ammonia-related opportunity layer for protecting Sites of Special Scientific Interest.* ### 29. Woodland opportunities at parish level *Photograph of woodland.* ### 30. England Woodland Creation Offer: local participation * EWCO grants are for a minimum area of 2 hectares, so are not available to small landowners, gardens and similar areas. * Defra is prepared to work with groups of landowners whose land is not contiguous. * This needs to be done through a legal entity, such as a Community Interest Company or cooperative. **Is this an opportunity for Odiham and other Hart parishes?** ### 31. Process to develop an Odiham parish-level woodland plan 1. Identify woodland opportunity areas. 2. Exclude areas earmarked for other purposes in the Neighbourhood Plan or Local Plan. 3. Discuss with landowners. 4. Group landowners under a Community Interest Company or cooperative. 5. Apply for Defra grants. Also support timber construction in Neighbourhood and Local Plans. ### 32. Odiham woodland opportunity areas *Friends of the Earth map showing potential woodland opportunity areas around Odiham.* ### 33. Odiham tree cover **Tree planting opportunities** *Friends of the Earth mapping showing existing tree cover, with areas marked as tree planting opportunities.* ### 34. Identifying landowners **Use Land Registry polygons to identify landowners.** *The map shows land parcels and identifying numbers to support landowner identification.* ***
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