Banter 132: 12Aug26 Composting Toilets, with Jess Ryan

environmental benefits of composting toilets compared to traditional flush systems, including water conservation, reduced energy usage, and creating nutrient-rich compost for gardening.

Video Timeline:

00:00 - 18:02 Presentation 18:02 - 46:11(end) Q & A

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Presentation:

On its way!

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Meeting Summary:

Aug 12, 2026 11:49 AM LondonID: 834 5460 8536

Quick recap

This meeting was a presentation and discussion about composting toilets, led by Jess Ryan who shared her experience installing and using a compost toilet in her Cardiff home for nearly a year. Jess explained the environmental benefits of composting toilets compared to traditional flush systems, including water conservation, reduced energy usage, and creating nutrient-rich compost for gardening. She detailed the regulatory requirements in the UK, including urine and faeces separation, proper removal methods, and on-site composting restrictions. The discussion covered practical aspects like cost (£500 for the unit), maintenance requirements, and the use of citric acid to prevent odours. Participants asked questions about cost savings, potential for urban and multi-unit buildings, and comparisons with existing sewage treatment systems. The group also discussed the possibility of political advocacy for composting toilets and their potential implementation in new building developments.

Summary

Compost Toilet Installation Experience

Jess presented on her experience installing a compost toilet in her Cardiff home after about a year of use. She explained the environmental benefits of composting toilets, including reducing water usage and avoiding problematic sewage treatment systems, while detailing the regulatory requirements and practical setup including urine separation and composting processes. Jess noted positive community reactions to her installation and discussed challenges around space requirements and maintenance, though she expressed interest in potentially establishing a city-based compost collection service.

Composting Toilets Presentation Discussion

Jess presented on her experience with composting toilets, explaining the benefits of composting human waste over traditional flush systems and addressing questions about costs, regulations, and practical applications. The discussion covered topics including the separation of urine and feces, the use of compost as fertilizer, and potential challenges in urban and off-grid settings. Participants shared insights on regulations, practical considerations for different living situations, and the possibility of implementing composting toilets in new buildings. The group also discussed the environmental impact of current sewage treatment methods and expressed interest in further exploring composting as an alternative solution.

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Chat:

00:36:02 Jenny Barna: Collecting and using the urine as fertiliser is a key point (globally)

00:45:20 Frank Deas:

https://npkrecovery.co.uk/

00:51:49 Andrew Maliphant: Separating urine from faeces in composting prevents foul ammonia odours and creates an optimal environment for aerobic bacteria to break down solid waste. Urine diversion makes the solid waste dry, significantly reducing its volume and preventing it from turning into a soggy, anaerobic sludge.

Why Separation Matters

Odour Control: When urine and faeces mix, they create ammonia, which causes the classic "outhouse" smell. Separating them keeps the process virtually odorless.

Faster Composting: Dry faeces break down into stable, usable compost much faster.

Easier Maintenance: Because urine accounts for the bulk of human waste, keeping it separate means solids bins take much longer to fill up.

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Audio-transcript:

00:17:20.060 --> 00:17:34.189 Jess Ryan: Okay, so yeah, I'm gonna be talking about, why I installed a compost toilet, in my house. I live in Cardiff, pretty close to the city center, so yeah, I'll talk about why…

119 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:43.189 Jess Ryan: why I did it, how I did it, and how it's gone so far. So I've now had this installed, for coming up to…

120 00:17:43.430 --> 00:17:59.529 Jess Ryan: a year, so I live in a small terraced house, and I have a garden with it, so yeah, that's my setup. Alright, let's get into it. So… if it's going to let me go on to my next slide… there we go. Okay, so…

121 00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:17.560 Jess Ryan: You'll hear me talk a lot, about the Human Your Handbook is the name of a book by a guy called Joseph Jenkins. So I'm no expert in compost toilets, I'm very interested in them, but my background is in theoretical computer science, so pretty different.

122 00:18:17.830 --> 00:18:30.269 Jess Ryan: But yeah, Joseph, has done a lot of work in this area and has published this fantastic book. I highly recommend it. And there's a link at the end. He's actually made the PDF available online for free.

123 00:18:30.750 --> 00:18:41.649 Jess Ryan: But anyway, so this is, these are some images from his book, and I think they're fantastic, so, I don't think I need to explain to any of you how…

124 00:18:41.790 --> 00:18:57.750 Jess Ryan: bad our current sewage treatment system is. We see it, sort of, so often in the news, where the water companies are able to get away with discharging hideous amounts of untreated sewage into our rivers.

125 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:09.640 Jess Ryan: So, I mean, that's a problem, and you can sort of talk about different ways of solving it, whether it should be allowed, but actually, I think that it's… it's more interesting, even than that, so…

126 00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:22.780 Jess Ryan: If you sort of assume that we don't have this, horribly polluting system where… well, okay, so if you assume that they don't illegally discharge the sewage, you still have a system where

127 00:19:23.060 --> 00:19:36.619 Jess Ryan: you, use the toilet, so you eat your food, you use the toilet, and flush. I worked out, you know, Cardiff is a relatively small city in the grand scheme of things, and based on rough calculations.

128 00:19:36.770 --> 00:19:45.919 Jess Ryan: We're using 25… I think it was 25 million litres of water every day, to flush the toilet.

129 00:19:46.010 --> 00:19:58.320 Jess Ryan: So, you know, people will say to me, oh, could we use, grey water rather than switching to compost toilets? But I mean, it's still a vast quantity of water, and the systems…

130 00:19:58.490 --> 00:20:11.979 Jess Ryan: so it's actually quite hard to find information on how sewage treatment plants work. I think there's… that's not, accidental. But they require huge amounts of energy, a whole array of, chemicals.

131 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:20.230 Jess Ryan: And actually, the sludge, so you have, kind of, the water can end up, can go back into the river once it's treated, but…

132 00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:32.919 Jess Ryan: the sludge, you have this kind of, leftover solids, that will, as best I can work out, typically go either into landfill, which is horrible because it produces methane as it decomposes.

133 00:20:33.470 --> 00:20:46.150 Jess Ryan: Or it will actually be sprayed on farmland, and the concerns about that are, the chemicals that are used in it. There's the heavy metals, because we have road runoff is also included in that.

134 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:56.820 Jess Ryan: And so on. So yeah, I mean, at the moment, the system is just problematic in a whole bunch of ways. And actually, it's surreal when…

135 00:20:56.820 --> 00:21:11.870 Jess Ryan: we have, we talk a lot about

circular economy

We have a circular solution provided to us by nature that we've completely lost touch with over the years. So, yeah, under this system on the right, you can see, we eat.

136 00:21:11.870 --> 00:21:24.700 Jess Ryan: We poop, and that gets composted, as humanure, and then that compost, can be used, it's high in nutrients, and can be used to then grow crops.

137 00:21:24.820 --> 00:21:37.179 Jess Ryan: And round we go. So yeah, I mean, that's a bit of background. I mean, that's kind of my reason why. I'm definitely somebody who, sort of likes a challenge and likes to do things a bit differently, so I read about these toilets and thought.

138 00:21:37.270 --> 00:21:46.009 Jess Ryan: okay, I really like living in a city, I don't quite fancy moving out to the middle of nowhere at the moment, why can't I do this in a city? So yeah.

139 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:52.399 Jess Ryan: I installed one, I took out my flush flu, and yeah, we'll talk about how that's gone.

140 00:21:53.580 --> 00:22:04.619 Jess Ryan: Regulations. So, as I say, not an expert, I can give you what I know, but the advice, that I will give, and that is generally given, is

141 00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:18.450 Jess Ryan: work with your local, regulatory bodies, rather than, in spite of them. They are, sort of, their knowledge about compost toilets is, is getting better. There is more knowledge,

142 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:35.810 Jess Ryan: But, yeah, it's sort of… it's… even the kind of the regulation that exists, some of it, I think once you kind of understand how the compost… composting works, doesn't totally make sense, but it is what it is. Anyway, so yeah, most of the regulation that you'll see will include the following, regardless of where you are.

143 00:22:35.810 --> 00:22:39.250 Jess Ryan: Sort of across the UK and Ireland,

144 00:22:39.360 --> 00:22:47.180 Jess Ryan: A compost toilet must separate urine and feces. I'll get into what that actually means in practice.

145 00:22:47.180 --> 00:23:00.150 Jess Ryan: You must be able to remove the material from the toilet without passing through living spaces, so you can't be carrying the material through a living room, a kitchen, and so on. You need to be able to do it without doing that.

146 00:23:00.170 --> 00:23:13.909 Jess Ryan: Your compost thing should be done away from a water body, so if you live close to a source of water, then it may not be a good solution for you because of the possible contamination.

147 00:23:14.490 --> 00:23:28.210 Jess Ryan: And finally, you should not remove… the compost should stay on site, using it, for example, taking it to an allotment and so on, is generally not permitted.

148 00:23:28.550 --> 00:23:39.729 Jess Ryan: At the bottom, I've got a couple of URLs, I'm happy to share those. They're not links to regulation, but they give a lot more information about, sort of, the general regulation that exists.

149 00:23:39.870 --> 00:23:45.720 Jess Ryan: Around the UK. Yep, that's kind of all I'll say on that for the minute.

150 00:23:46.830 --> 00:23:57.799 Jess Ryan: And now we'll move on to what this has actually ended up looking like for me. So, on the right, you can see the actual model that I have installed.

151 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:07.960 Jess Ryan: it looks a lot like a regular toilet from the outside. I think I had friends that had horror visions of how this would look in my bathroom, but actually…

152 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:18.970 Jess Ryan: It's very similar using it and looking at it, it's very similar. So, in the top image, you can see what happens when you can see when you lift up, the seat and the lid.

153 00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:34.790 Jess Ryan: So, this is the separation that I was talking about, your pee into the front bit, and then the back, everything else. I also have, a sort of pedal bin where I put toilet paper, just so that it doesn't fill up, the container in the back quite so quickly.

154 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:39.320 Jess Ryan: And I have, this,

155 00:24:39.340 --> 00:24:49.340 Jess Ryan: carbon-based filter extraction fan. You could also just extract, directly to the outdoors, but this is powered by a small amount of electricity.

156 00:24:49.340 --> 00:25:01.949 Jess Ryan: To keep flowing through. We live in a humid climate, so, although this isn't actually recommended in the

Humanure book: The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins https://humanurehandbook.com/contents.html,

I would recommend it to anybody living in, in, in a humid, environment. So…

157 00:25:02.260 --> 00:25:08.349 Jess Ryan: Yeah, I… so I empty it, about every, kind of, 5 days,

158 00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:13.609 Jess Ryan: I… a trick that I've learned is that, if you… if you're in sit.

159 00:25:13.620 --> 00:25:30.430 Jess Ryan: it will go from being quite acidic to, less acidic, not scientist, but as it becomes less acidic, it will then, release ammonia, and that smells, and is bad for the environment. So if you put, a sprinkle of citric acid.

160 00:25:30.430 --> 00:25:33.709 Jess Ryan: Into the bottom of the container, that doesn't happen.

161 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:42.719 Jess Ryan: So the only smell problem that I've had has come from the urine bottle, and that was completely eliminated by putting the citric acid in.

162 00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:53.790 Jess Ryan: I think that's kind of all there is really to say on that. So on the left, you can see a few links to sites that sell similar toilets. Some of them are fancier than others. Mine was one of the cheapest.

163 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:59.809 Jess Ryan: Yeah. So… This slide, this is…

164 00:26:00.100 --> 00:26:10.139 Jess Ryan: a different way that you can do this urine separation. It's a bit more, appropriate for, sort of, allotments, community gardens, and that kind of things. I'm…

165 00:26:10.610 --> 00:26:23.059 Jess Ryan: I think you may find that regulatory bodies are more kind of comfortable with this, because it has, it is kind of, I think, the vision that people have of a compost toilet, but there are a few problems with it, right? So…

166 00:26:23.360 --> 00:26:37.560 Jess Ryan: on the left, you can see how the setup works. It takes up a lot of space, but you'll have two, sort of, chambers underneath, the toilet, and you can either move the toilet or move the seats, but the idea is that one chamber, fills up.

167 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:44.189 Jess Ryan: And once that's full, you move the toilet over, the other one processes, and so on and so on.

168 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:55.159 Jess Ryan: with urine diversion out to the soil or a reed bed, and after a period of time, you'll remove the solid waste from that. Now.

169 00:26:55.790 --> 00:27:07.210 Jess Ryan: The problem with this is that, this feels much tidier, there's much less admin, but actually, it's not going to compost very well. You have really poor airflow, you can't really manage it, it's stuck in this vault.

170 00:27:07.330 --> 00:27:23.889 Jess Ryan: And you can't sort of maintain… I mean, I'll talk about it in a bit, but the moisture content, moisture levels, you can't really do very much about it, you can't see what's going on. So, I thought I'd put this on there because it may be more appropriate for some people, but it… yeah, some issues with it.

171 00:27:24.350 --> 00:27:28.390 Jess Ryan: Alright, here's one of my compost piles.

172 00:27:28.840 --> 00:27:35.089 Jess Ryan: On the right. So people get, stressed out about composting.

173 00:27:35.350 --> 00:27:54.679 Jess Ryan: It's much simpler than I think a lot of people think. It does need to be above ground. You need, or… you need to have airflow. So a lot of people say, oh, I'm going to dig a hole in the ground, and the toilet will go in there, and it will decompose. It will decompose, but it won't be composting.

174 00:27:54.680 --> 00:28:00.990 Jess Ryan: It will be done anaerobically, it will produce methane, it's not good for the environment, and it stinks.

175 00:28:01.450 --> 00:28:15.120 Jess Ryan: So yeah, I… every kind of 5 days, as I say, I will go out, into the garden, I'll move this kind of top layer, you can see I've got weeds at the moment, move it aside to create a sort of indent.

176 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:23.140 Jess Ryan: Put the food waste in, because that's the thing that rodents and flies will be attracted to, so we don't want them to be able to smell it.

177 00:28:23.140 --> 00:28:24.959 Jess Ryan: So that goes in first.

178 00:28:25.410 --> 00:28:36.990 Jess Ryan: And then the toilet waste, and then, I will put some cover material over the top, so you get, no smell, no flies, no rodents. I live in the city, I've not had any of these issues.

179 00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:52.379 Jess Ryan: You want it to be moist and not soaking. Now, the one problem you can have with that is, the sort of extreme rainfall that we see in the winter. So having a cover that you can put over the top of it when you're expecting a storm

180 00:28:52.380 --> 00:29:01.419 Jess Ryan: can be useful. Joseph, in his book, sort of talks about this a little bit and says, look, the issue that you're concerned about is runoff.

181 00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:20.330 Jess Ryan: you shouldn't have an issue. I mean, once your pile is kind of high, the odds of the kind of rainfall going all the way through and somehow spreading out is negligible, but if you want to be sort of confident, then having a rain cover is a good idea. Even a moisture thermometer, because you don't want it to be dry.

182 00:29:20.810 --> 00:29:38.200 Jess Ryan: 2 to 1 browns-greens ratio, that's another issue, people get very stressed about. It just means you want a kind of a rough, equal balance with a little bit more browns. Browns being dry leaves, cardboard is fine to put in the compost.

183 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:42.559 Jess Ryan: toilet paper, that kind of thing. Your greens are…

184 00:29:42.670 --> 00:29:47.409 Jess Ryan: Food waste, coffee grounds, and live plants.

185 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.600 Jess Ryan: Now.

186 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:59.679 Jess Ryan: I'll give a bit of information on this at the end, but you ideally want your compost pile to get to about 50 to 60 degrees. That's the point where you're starting to be comfortable in killing off

187 00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:13.550 Jess Ryan: any possible nasties, that could be, in the material that you're putting in. So, yeah, 50 to 60, I have seen those temperatures. Not so much in the summer, actually, for some reason, but in the winter, it would be hot.

188 00:30:14.020 --> 00:30:26.710 Jess Ryan: And then you want about one to two years, resting time, so your compost pile has filled up, you now leave it alone, for ideally two years, to be sort of really confident and…

189 00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:41.789 Jess Ryan: The advice is, to use it to spread around plants, but not to use it for crops. Now, if you composted this, if you'd perfectly followed, this guidance and were sure that everything had got to 50 to 60 for a week.

190 00:30:41.790 --> 00:30:56.920 Jess Ryan: Then yes, you could use it for crops, but how confident can you be that you did all of those things completely, perfectly? Not very. So, my advice would be, yeah, to not try to grow food with it, but it's perfectly fine around trees.

191 00:30:57.430 --> 00:30:59.450 Jess Ryan: Cool.

192 00:31:00.390 --> 00:31:03.139 Jess Ryan: So yeah, my first year,

193 00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:20.139 Jess Ryan: It's been interesting. It's what I think the thing I've been most surprised by, so I live in quite a dense area, there's lots and lots of properties around me, and quite a few people know that I have this in place, and I've been really pleasantly surprised by people are not…

194 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:28.479 Jess Ryan: concerned about it. They'll definitely have questions, but it's… I've had a really positive reaction to it.

195 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:43.309 Jess Ryan: in terms of people using it, that's been another case where I sort of had, friends that would say, oh, I'm not sure about that, and what are you doing? And then they would use it and start asking me how they could do it. And so that's been another, sort of surprise.

196 00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:59.299 Jess Ryan: It is… it is more admin heavy than, having a flush toilet where you just press the button and it's… it's no longer your problem. And the other sort of issue I have, it takes up a lot of space to do the compost thing.

197 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:03.579 Jess Ryan: In the sense that you sort of have one bin that you're filling up.

198 00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:19.580 Jess Ryan: one that's just filled up and one that's sitting. So really, you need three compost bins, and that starts to become, a sort of space issue in a small… in a small garden. A bit of a pipe dream, is…

199 00:32:19.580 --> 00:32:30.600 Jess Ryan: to, at some point, maybe, have set up a business. So, there's a non-profit in London who collect, material from compost toilets.

200 00:32:30.810 --> 00:32:50.320 Jess Ryan: from canal boats, so canal boats are increasingly having compost toilets, and this non-profit, takes the material from the compost toilets. Obviously, you can't compost it on a boat, and they compost it. And so, as I say, I love living in a city, I don't want to live on a boat. Why can't we do this in cities? Why can't we do it in towns?

201 00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:58.729 Jess Ryan: yeah, so, if anybody's kind of curious about what on earth I'm thinking there, I'd be happy to chat about it. But yeah, I think my point is that

202 00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:18.829 Jess Ryan: if anything, my only issue with it, and the reason I actually may not continue, to have a compost toilet in my house, is because, the space it takes up in the garden, and, how much compost do I actually need in a small garden? So yeah.

203 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:23.790 Jess Ryan: But yeah, as I say, I'm happy if anyone's got any questions to, talk about that more.

204 00:33:24.510 --> 00:33:33.150 Jess Ryan: And I think this is a really sweet quote, from the book, that you can enjoy, so I'll read it out, because it is quite long.

205 00:33:33.150 --> 00:33:49.920 Jess Ryan: Human yore composters can stand under the stars at night, gazing at the heavens, and know that, when nature calls, their excretions will not foul the planet. Instead, those excretions are humbly collected, fed to friendly microbes, and returned to the earth as healing medicine for the soil.

206 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:55.129 Jess Ryan: And… here's the book, with the URL promised.

207 00:33:55.240 --> 00:34:02.660 Jess Ryan: And my email address, in case anybody's got, any comments or questions. I'd be really interested, to hear…

208 00:34:02.910 --> 00:34:14.740 Jess Ryan: if anybody decides that they're gonna give this a go, and any conversations that they have with regulatory bodies, and yeah, I'm particularly interested in that, but I'm also happy to answer questions.

209 00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:29.080 Jess Ryan: But yeah, I think that's about me. I've put this here, you can, ignore it or read it. It's in the book, it's really interesting. So, the book talks a lot, a lot about, pathogens and,

210 00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.590 Jess Ryan: Heavy metals and pharmaceuticals, and how those,

211 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:43.720 Jess Ryan: are processed, in composting and alternatives. But yeah, that's me. I'll stop there, and answer any questions that folks have got.

212 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.520 Andrew Maliphant: Thank you so much, that is incredibly fascinating.

213 00:34:48.520 --> 00:34:49.179 Jess Ryan: Thank you.

214 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:54.940 Andrew Maliphant: Wow, and what a, what a great, what a great neat and tidy summary.

215 00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:11.789 Andrew Maliphant: And I know there'll be people, people wanting to look at the recording of this, because this is, you know, the fact that you've actually done it in an urban area, too, is going to be of great, interest to so many different people. I'm just looking at all those horrible bugs, and I thought, I'll stop looking at them and making me feel…

216 00:35:11.790 --> 00:35:25.170 Jess Ryan: I know. It's sort of… yeah, he goes into detail in a way that I think, you know, you don't have to have a degree in the sciences, to understand it, but it is actually really impressive in that,

217 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:32.260 Jess Ryan: pharmaceuticals, have been… I think it's either the heavy chemicals or the pharmaceuticals are actually a…

218 00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:38.129 Jess Ryan: Much less present in composted, human waste than they are in,

219 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:42.019 Jess Ryan: human waste that has gone through our sewage treatment, yeah.

220 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.679 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, I understand that, yeah. Stuart, you've got your hand up, mate. What's your question?

221 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.330 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Yeah, thanks, fascinating talk, and

222 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:59.309 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I'd like to know what prompted you to do it in the first place. I mean, you're obviously…

223 00:35:59.660 --> 00:36:03.210 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: quite an eco person. Well, was it the eco reasons?

224 00:36:04.700 --> 00:36:15.009 Jess Ryan: I think, I mean, so I worked in the energy industry before this, and I felt like there's so much attention, and rightfully so, on, you know, solar panels and EVs.

225 00:36:15.220 --> 00:36:18.599 Jess Ryan: But nobody's thinking about.

226 00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:27.619 Jess Ryan: the toilets, and how harmful that is, to the environment, because nobody wants to talk about poo.

227 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:37.810 Jess Ryan: But there's an amazing solution, right? I mean, it's, yeah, the sort of composting, you know, there's… there's… you don't need water, you don't need energy,

228 00:36:37.810 --> 00:36:48.350 Jess Ryan: and it produces an actual end product. So, yeah, I wanted to sort of see, you know, you hear about, oh, it's used in the middle of nowhere, but… yeah. So, that's kind of my why, is…

229 00:36:48.470 --> 00:36:53.439 Jess Ryan: To… just to see how feasible it is, to do every day.

230 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.179 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Well, I'm glad you've done it, and I'm glad you've come to speak to us about it.

231 00:36:57.510 --> 00:36:57.880 Jess Ryan: No problem.

232 00:36:57.880 --> 00:36:59.140 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I, I've…

233 00:36:59.270 --> 00:37:05.649 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I was reading the book, I can't remember which one it was now, it might have been Wasteland by Olga Franklin.

234 00:37:05.900 --> 00:37:09.379 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: But he was saying it's quite big in Japan, and…

235 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:29.119 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: there's somebody making lots of money about it in America. They sell it as… they brand it as something or other. But they go around and collect the night soil around the town, compost it, and then sell it back as general fertilizer. I don't think there's any restrictions on where they use it, or recommendations.

236 00:37:29.260 --> 00:37:30.320 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And

237 00:37:30.600 --> 00:37:42.970 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: One of the main benefits is, you don't have to apply so much nitrogen fertiliser, which of course, is made at the moment, using fossil gas.

238 00:37:43.330 --> 00:38:02.600 Jess Ryan: Exactly, that's actually one of the things that I realized I… yeah, I meant to mention, was that, yeah, we have, kind of, we're processing all of this stuff, and then at the same time, there's… we need to put nutrients back in the soil somehow. So yeah, we produce, all of this synthetic fertilizer. But, about, Japan, so it's quite interesting, actually, so…

239 00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:04.040 Jess Ryan: There's…

240 00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:15.710 Jess Ryan: quite a lot of countries, predominantly in Asia, who used to do this composting, and are increasingly moving to the flush systems that we have over here.

241 00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:33.969 Jess Ryan: So yeah, not great. But Joseph, guy who wrote the book, he's worked in a bunch of countries in areas where there are no toilets at the moment, or they're using, like, long drops and things like that, and teaching them how to set up a compost toilet,

242 00:38:34.060 --> 00:38:39.650 Jess Ryan: So yeah, I think the UK is a particularly hard environment, to get this to work, but…

243 00:38:39.750 --> 00:38:40.780 Jess Ryan: Why not?

244 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:46.920 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And the other point I was going to make was, I live in quite an agricultural area.

245 00:38:47.470 --> 00:38:51.299 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And a lot of them are using the,

246 00:38:51.940 --> 00:38:55.749 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: solid waste from, water treatment plants. Yep.

247 00:38:55.970 --> 00:39:08.459 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And certainly George Bombion, a lot of other people complain about that, complaining, contains a lot of pharmaceuticals, microplastics, all this, that, and the other. And that is being spread on food crops.

248 00:39:09.180 --> 00:39:15.389 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: How does that compare with the regulations you were saying that we shouldn't be using human waste on?

249 00:39:16.050 --> 00:39:23.409 Jess Ryan: So, okay, yeah, so that's, that's a good question, and, there is a difference, right? Because,

250 00:39:23.660 --> 00:39:35.870 Jess Ryan: they're very different processes. So, under the flush-based system, you've got all of the road runoff, all of the garbage from factories and so on, all pouring into the sewage treatment plant.

251 00:39:36.130 --> 00:39:50.399 Jess Ryan: And then that is being spread on the fields, with no real treatment, for pharmaceuticals that I'm aware of, right? It's just making sure that it can… the water can be drunk again.

252 00:39:50.420 --> 00:40:04.599 Jess Ryan: So that being a spread on the fields, you know, people say that it absolutely stinks, and I'm sure it does, but my point is, I suppose, that composting is an actual biological process, that

253 00:40:04.600 --> 00:40:13.610 Jess Ryan: At the end, doesn't contain, harmful levels of pathogens, and is beneficial to the soil, so…

254 00:40:13.700 --> 00:40:18.439 Jess Ryan: It's… yeah, yeah, does that make… is that helpful? Does that make sense?

255 00:40:19.270 --> 00:40:32.409 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Yeah, I mean, I gather it's heat-treated to try and remove the pathogens, but as I say, the microplastics, the rubber, the brake linings, all this other crap's in there.

256 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.730 Jess Ryan: And, yeah, so there's actually, so,

257 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:47.520 Jess Ryan: there was some study that I had a look at, and it's, eggs, so intestinal worms. The eggs from those, have been shown to survive the treatment plant process.

258 00:40:48.060 --> 00:40:50.960 Jess Ryan: Etc. Yeah.

259 00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:54.220 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Okay, thank you, I'll give somebody else a go now.

260 00:40:54.710 --> 00:40:58.119 Andrew Maliphant: Thanks. Move away from the subject of intestinal wounds, yeah.

261 00:40:58.890 --> 00:41:02.740 Andrew Maliphant: Jane, and then after Jane Bea, but Jane…

262 00:41:03.150 --> 00:41:06.789 Jane Whild: Yeah, I've got a couple of, couple of questions,

263 00:41:07.010 --> 00:41:17.670 Jane Whild: First one is, did you notice any cost, you know, savings? So, what was the cost of getting it installed, and have you saved much on your water bills?

264 00:41:18.730 --> 00:41:31.389 Jess Ryan: Really good question. The cost is annoying, because they're not super appropriate. Although, okay, so if you installed a flush toilet, that's gonna set you back about the same amount, but the unit cost me £500,

265 00:41:31.570 --> 00:41:43.189 Jess Ryan: And in terms of the water bill, it's a bit frustrating that… so I have Welsh water, and they're not very good. I have a water meter, but they're not very good at, updating me.

266 00:41:43.190 --> 00:41:51.839 Jess Ryan: But, I did do some calculations that suggested that a single person, could save about £100 a year on water bills.

267 00:41:51.890 --> 00:41:55.260 Jess Ryan: So it's not substantial, but it's not nothing.

268 00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:56.590 Jess Ryan: Yeah.

269 00:41:56.590 --> 00:42:06.999 Jane Whild: Okay, yeah, and the second question is, well, I live on a narrowboat, but in a marina, so we've got a tank on our boat, so I'd have to look into how we might

270 00:42:07.270 --> 00:42:14.470 Jane Whild: you know, modify that. But, I mean, quite often, people take these cassette toilets and they, you know, they've got, like, a

271 00:42:14.490 --> 00:42:28.910 Jane Whild: pump-out station, so you'd need to talk to people like the Canal and Rivers Trust and the Marinas, you know, to make it, sort of, to change habits and what have you. But it, you know, in the future, it might be worth it.

272 00:42:29.470 --> 00:42:42.359 Jess Ryan: The guys that I was talking about, so I mentioned the folks who collect this stuff from a canal boat, annoyingly, yeah, they're only based in London at the moment, but they're called Circular Revolution, if you wanted to look them up.

273 00:42:42.470 --> 00:42:50.790 Jess Ryan: yeah, really cool group. I don't… I… yeah, they've sort of overcome some, yeah, real barriers with, what they're doing, so, yeah, cool.

274 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:57.650 Jane Whild: No, it's just that you'd have to modify the toilets on the boat to separate the wee and the poo, I guess.

275 00:42:57.650 --> 00:43:06.239 Jess Ryan: What a lot of people have done have installed something like what I've got, where it is just literally a push-it-into-the-place-and-plug-it-in situation,

276 00:43:06.370 --> 00:43:10.169 Jess Ryan: And does the separation for you. The separation, it's annoying that it's…

277 00:43:10.700 --> 00:43:26.229 Jess Ryan: It's in the regulation because, otherwise it is treated as, like a cesspit, but when you're composting, you actually… both things can be composted, so it's a bit strange, but it is what it is, yeah.

278 00:43:26.770 --> 00:43:27.750 Jane Whild: Yeah, okay.

279 00:43:27.750 --> 00:43:30.060 Andrew Maliphant: You can compost with the wee as well, is that right?

280 00:43:30.060 --> 00:43:45.519 Jess Ryan: Yeah, so you can use it, as a fertilizer, actually. You want to dilute it about 1 to 10 with water, but it's really high, in nitrogen, but also, yeah, other, nutrients as well. It is…

281 00:43:45.550 --> 00:43:58.400 Jess Ryan: generally going to be sterile as well, in terms of, kind of, the pathogens are not typically, in the urine, so you can use it immediately. There's a company that is relatively new in Bristol that are…

282 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:12.900 Jess Ryan: taking… they're going to festivals and whatnot, and they are, taking the… the urine that for people pee, and, I can't think what the word is, but essentially condensing it and selling it on as fertilizer.

283 00:44:13.770 --> 00:44:14.420 Andrew Maliphant: Oh, okay.

284 00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:16.129 Bea Oliver: Do you know the name of that company?

285 00:44:16.130 --> 00:44:18.069 Jess Ryan: I want to say NPK.

286 00:44:18.950 --> 00:44:24.349 Jess Ryan: But if you, yeah, yeah, because the, the nutrients, but I think,

287 00:44:24.550 --> 00:44:34.290 Jess Ryan: Yeah, if you just look up, sort of, they've been in the news quite a lot recently, but yeah, kind of condensing urine into fertilizer, you'll find it. Yeah.

288 00:44:34.290 --> 00:44:46.239 Jane Whild: And just one more thing to add, one of our parish councils here in Milton Keynes has got a community garden, and they've got a composting toilet there, which is a great sort of education, you know, piece for the community and the kids.

289 00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:56.159 Jess Ryan: This is it. I think, you know, people think, based on long drops usually, that it's going to be some hideous experience, but actually, it doesn't have to be. Yeah.

290 00:44:57.140 --> 00:44:57.630 Jess Ryan: Yeah, great.

291 00:44:57.630 --> 00:44:58.429 Jane Whild: Thank you.

292 00:44:58.430 --> 00:44:59.160 Jess Ryan: Thank you.

293 00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:02.270 Andrew Maliphant: Thank you. Abil, you've got a… you've got a question.

294 00:45:02.270 --> 00:45:17.599 Bea Oliver: Hi, yeah. My name's Bea. I am based in Bristol, but I work with farmers in Gloucestershire. Part of my job is working for the Catchment Partnership, so collecting organisations to work together for water health.

295 00:45:17.900 --> 00:45:32.039 Bea Oliver: There's catchment partnerships in every, area of the country, so if others are kind of involved or interested in water quality, then I, suggest you get in contact with your local catchment partnership.

296 00:45:32.150 --> 00:45:52.130 Bea Oliver: The question I wanted to ask is whether you are involved in or are aware of anyone campaigning, amongst political parties for this to be taken up as a policy goal for compost toilets to be installed, either public toilets or private homes.

297 00:45:52.950 --> 00:46:06.949 Jess Ryan: Yeah, I'm actually not. That's a good point, right? Because I think, yeah, as I say, I think partly because of the ick issue, it's, an issue that nobody really wants to talk about,

298 00:46:08.080 --> 00:46:09.550 Jess Ryan: Interesting, yeah, I have…

299 00:46:09.550 --> 00:46:14.910 Bea Oliver: Would you be… would you be interested in, like, in being involved in something like that?

300 00:46:14.910 --> 00:46:22.230 Jess Ryan: For sure, for sure, because I think, you know, I have, looked into this idea of a kind of a startup, but the…

301 00:46:22.230 --> 00:46:36.139 Jess Ryan: kind of the regulation is intimidating, and it makes things like this really hard, and some of it is necessary, and I understand it is important to have regulation, but some of it is not, I think, well-informed, so yeah.

302 00:46:36.730 --> 00:46:41.410 Jess Ryan: Absolutely. Did you get my… I think my email is on one of these slides. There.

303 00:46:42.350 --> 00:46:43.250 Bea Oliver: Thank you.

304 00:46:43.420 --> 00:46:44.700 Bea Oliver: Thanks.

305 00:46:45.150 --> 00:46:45.780 Andrew Maliphant: Wow.

306 00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:51.009 Bea Oliver: And where are you based? Cardin. Cardin. Sorry, I just remembered.

307 00:46:51.010 --> 00:46:53.719 Jess Ryan: That's alright. Just over the… over the bridge.

308 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:54.560 Bea Oliver: Yeah.

309 00:46:55.060 --> 00:46:58.450 Andrew Maliphant: But one of the British, anyway, yes.

310 00:46:58.720 --> 00:46:59.830 Bea Oliver: It's a quote, yeah.

311 00:46:59.830 --> 00:47:01.549 Jess Ryan: Anyway, yeah, thanks.

312 00:47:01.890 --> 00:47:05.289 Andrew Maliphant: I'm in the forest of DemySelf, so not so far away from you.

313 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:23.710 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, I think when… as and when we might find out what Andy Burnham's plans are for responding to climate change, we might decide what needs a bit of extra push or remembrance of him, but we'll see. You mentioned you were involved in the energy industry before. I think the cross party

314 00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.680 Andrew Maliphant: Parliamentary lobby for.

315 00:47:25.770 --> 00:47:42.079 Andrew Maliphant: people who generate energy may be able to sell it to other people without having to go through the national grid is still going strong. So, it's good to have a campaign which has got a practical outcome, rather than just a protest.

316 00:47:42.080 --> 00:47:46.089 Jess Ryan: Yeah, it reminds me, actually, there's, I read about,

317 00:47:46.220 --> 00:47:51.969 Jess Ryan: in the US, so they compost not, human stuff, but, like,

318 00:47:52.300 --> 00:48:03.259 Jess Ryan: food and whatnot, and will create, I can't remember what they're called, but huge compost piles, and they actually generate so much heat that there's been kind of some studies into using that for energy,

319 00:48:03.260 --> 00:48:04.449 Andrew Maliphant: Yes, I think I've heard that as well.

320 00:48:04.450 --> 00:48:07.649 Jess Ryan: Yeah, I don't know, I mean…

321 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:22.330 Jess Ryan: I don't think it would generate a huge amount of energy. The real value is in not polluting the rivers and, producing, compost, which we can use for farming, but it's… it would be interesting, potentially, to look into it, yeah.

322 00:48:22.330 --> 00:48:25.229 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, thank you. Oh, Graeme, we've got another point.

323 00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:27.850 Andrew Maliphant: Do it.

324 00:48:28.890 --> 00:48:35.380 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Huh, yeah. I'm quite interested in this, separating the poo from the pee.

325 00:48:36.810 --> 00:48:37.140 Jess Ryan: Yeah.

326 00:48:37.140 --> 00:48:46.349 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I can't really see any good reason for doing it. You do want to retain a certain amount of moisture in your compost heat.

327 00:48:46.600 --> 00:48:59.779 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: And I'm quite a keen gardener. I've been told one of the best things you can do with your compost heap is have a pier in it. Yes. Yep. And it seems to be quite a difficult part of the process, trying to separate the two.

328 00:48:59.930 --> 00:49:06.890 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: So, if maybe something changed, and you could keep both of them together.

329 00:49:07.130 --> 00:49:09.269 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: That would make life a lot easier.

330 00:49:10.410 --> 00:49:16.280 Jess Ryan: Yeah, I mean, in terms of… for me, It's fine,

331 00:49:16.430 --> 00:49:33.040 Jess Ryan: you know, you just… I collect them, and then I'll put some of it into the compost bin. I think the big concern is about the, sort of, in their minds, is creating this soup. But the reality is that you don't pay that much, right?

332 00:49:33.190 --> 00:49:34.750 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Depends on what beer you drink.

333 00:49:35.170 --> 00:49:36.930 Andrew Maliphant: Exactly. That's… that's true.

334 00:49:36.930 --> 00:49:39.090 Jess Ryan: That's true, but I think it's… it's…

335 00:49:39.260 --> 00:49:55.739 Jess Ryan: I don't really know what the reason is, for the idea of separating it. I don't think it… you know, so, Joseph, in the work that he's done, in various countries in installing them, he doesn't… they don't separate. It's one container.

336 00:49:55.740 --> 00:50:02.609 Jess Ryan: And then put straight onto the compost pile, and that's also what he has in his home in the US, so…

337 00:50:02.610 --> 00:50:07.470 Jess Ryan: It's definitely not unnecessary, it's just, I don't know where it's come from, but… yeah.

338 00:50:07.470 --> 00:50:14.769 Jane Whild: Yeah, reading, reading the cat, you know, the, what are they called? I forgot what they call, cat in Wales.

339 00:50:14.770 --> 00:50:16.980 Jess Ryan: Fender for alternative technology, then go.

340 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:23.109 Jane Whild: Yeah, I've been there, yeah. They reckon it's because of the odor that you separate it.

341 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:41.039 Jess Ryan: So that I also read, that's a good point. I kept… I follow Facebook groups with other people composting poo, right? And, as you do, and, people kept saying, oh, it's… you need to separate because of the smell, and I've had somebody who accidentally weed in the container that's, for the poo at the back.

342 00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:56.560 Jess Ryan: It makes no difference. There's a fan, it's, it's… yeah. If anything, it actually is better, because you'll find that the toilet paper fills up a lot of the space, but actually, if the toilet paper's wet, it shrinks, right? So you don't fill the whole thing up quite so quickly.

343 00:50:56.650 --> 00:51:13.290 Jess Ryan: Yeah. Okay, I will caveat that with, the thing I talked about with the citric acid, it's honestly an absolute game changer. I don't know how well that would work if you had mixed them both. I suppose you could sprinkle a little bit in after each use.

344 00:51:13.450 --> 00:51:17.750 Jess Ryan: But essentially, you want to make sure the urine stays acidic.

345 00:51:19.640 --> 00:51:20.720 Jane Whild: Vinegar work.

346 00:51:20.750 --> 00:51:23.060 Jess Ryan: It does work, and I use…

347 00:51:23.060 --> 00:51:23.670 Jane Whild: There you go.

348 00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:37.490 Jess Ryan: Exactly. It works a little bit less well. The citric acid… I tried vinegar because I had some, and the citric acid just works better, and it is… it's supposed to be, yeah, pretty eco-friendly. I got it… I get it from Ethical Superstore.

349 00:51:38.220 --> 00:51:39.140 Jess Ryan: Online.

350 00:51:39.140 --> 00:51:42.899 Jane Whild: Yeah, I use that on my narrowboat toilet to keep the odor down, yeah.

351 00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:57.429 Jess Ryan: Yeah, exactly, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's good stuff, and yeah, not harmful, in the compost pile, or to touch, yeah. I can see there's a few, messages in the chat, I don't know, I can't see the chat, I don't know if…

352 00:51:57.620 --> 00:52:07.120 Andrew Maliphant: Well, there's a point about collecting using urine as a fertilizer is a key point that Jenny's posted. The NPK Recovery Frank has put that in the list, and I just…

353 00:52:07.150 --> 00:52:16.320 Andrew Maliphant: I've just done the AI search online about what this thing about why it's separating it is important, and it's about the smell, yep.

354 00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:29.389 Andrew Maliphant: Apparently, if it's… if it… if they're dry feces, they break down more quickly than if they are totally damp. Well, that's… this is where… what you get with this AI stuff is you get… they… they get information from what people has published.

355 00:52:29.390 --> 00:52:29.770 Jess Ryan: Exactly.

356 00:52:29.770 --> 00:52:35.770 Andrew Maliphant: So… so there we go. So, I guess the smell is one of the major reasons, but there we go.

357 00:52:35.770 --> 00:52:45.690 Jess Ryan: Yeah, so bacteria swim, apparently, so that's, one of the reasons you want your compost pile to be wet, is because they can't, otherwise move around your pile, yeah.

358 00:52:46.530 --> 00:52:47.210 Andrew Maliphant: Okay.

359 00:52:47.420 --> 00:52:51.830 Jess Ryan: That's as far as my knowledge goes, but yeah, you don't want a dry… a dry pile.

360 00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:59.149 Andrew Maliphant: Yeah, well, I gave up biology in the fourth form, so I think, never learned any of this at school, for sure, yeah.

361 00:52:59.340 --> 00:53:01.180 Andrew Maliphant: There we go.

362 00:53:01.180 --> 00:53:18.970 Jess Ryan: I find it much easier to sort of learn the science stuff. Apologies, I interrupted there. But, yeah, when you've got a reason to learn something, right, it's, I want to know about these microbes because I want to be able to safely compost, but I'm learning about them in the abstract is… Sure.

363 00:53:19.430 --> 00:53:21.240 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, great. Shane?

364 00:53:21.240 --> 00:53:23.030 Jane Whild: So, just a further thought, you know…

365 00:53:25.330 --> 00:53:27.749 Jane Whild: Sorry, they're building a lot of high-rise flats.

366 00:53:28.230 --> 00:53:38.020 Jane Whild: Well, not high-rise flats, but yeah, flat buildings. Is… would you think this had got potential to do that in a new building, but to, you know,

367 00:53:38.220 --> 00:53:39.090 Jane Whild: What do you think?

368 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:52.499 Jess Ryan: Yeah, so I think, I mean, I've lived in flats, I've rented… this is the first place I've owned, I've rented most of my life, so far, 17 places, I think, and most of them are flats, right? And,

369 00:53:52.910 --> 00:54:00.600 Jess Ryan: that's one of the reasons that I was kind of talking about this idea of collection, is because most people don't want to or can't

370 00:54:00.600 --> 00:54:03.480 Jess Ryan: Compost, in their garden.

371 00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:22.780 Jess Ryan: But if you could have a system where it's collected, or I think there was one building, I can't find much information about it, but, supposedly, somewhere in Sweden, they actually, I think, retrofitted, a system where you didn't have to take the material out, it just went into a container, somehow.

372 00:54:22.830 --> 00:54:35.900 Jess Ryan: But ideally, you want to actually take it away and sort of do proper composting. Yeah, I think it's absolutely possible. It's one of these things where…

373 00:54:36.200 --> 00:54:41.810 Jess Ryan: I think it's hard to imagine, but once you're using it, once you've made that change.

374 00:54:42.770 --> 00:54:47.030 Jess Ryan: it's easy, it's just we're real creatures of habit, aren't we?

375 00:54:47.030 --> 00:55:02.369 Jane Whild: Well, it could be a great solution, you know, to stop the sewage in the rivers and stuff like that, you know, if you were building lots of these buildings and you put the right infrastructure in, it could be a good solution.

376 00:55:02.370 --> 00:55:20.100 Jess Ryan: This is it. I think, you know, people have lots of opinions on the current situation with the water companies, and I think, I mean, what they're doing is really terrible. By the way, I think, is it Dirty Business is a really, really good, Channel 4 program, really good, that they did recently on it.

377 00:55:20.230 --> 00:55:33.049 Jess Ryan: And… it is stupid, the whole system, but I also think, rather than fighting them, here's a better solution, that doesn't need any of that.

378 00:55:34.660 --> 00:55:35.809 Andrew Maliphant: Okay, bye.

379 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:41.549 Andrew Maliphant: I… I have a… some of us may remember Martin Luther King. I have a dream that is rooted in my…

380 00:55:41.550 --> 00:55:42.190 Jess Ryan: Dude!

381 00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:51.179 Andrew Maliphant: But I think I have a dream that is that, you know, in 10 years' time, how we all live together, individually and collectively, is going to be different.

382 00:55:51.330 --> 00:56:04.820 Andrew Maliphant: And there's going to be an emerging norm, or norms that are different from what we've got these days. And renewable energy and compost and toilets may well be part of that.

383 00:56:04.820 --> 00:56:18.369 Jess Ryan: There's actually… so, before I bought this place, I looked into, there's kind of these purpose, sort of, I don't know what you'd call them, but anyway, the communities with a purpose that are buying, sort of a bunch of properties together.

384 00:56:18.370 --> 00:56:31.299 Jess Ryan: And then they live together, and usually they're very eco-friendly, right? I mean, it's part of the whole thing. And a lot of them will have, compost toilets, within… in their houses,

385 00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:40.880 Jess Ryan: they are typically… these communities do… they do tend to be new… new buildings, so retrofitting is… is more tricky, but I… I do think it's absolutely possible, it's just…

386 00:56:40.890 --> 00:56:43.720 Jess Ryan: A matter of… Doing it, isn't it?

387 00:56:45.040 --> 00:57:02.379 Andrew Maliphant: I think, the Sunak government was going to make some changes to building regulations, which were supposed to come in last year. Then, of course, the government fell, and I'm not… don't know, I'm not up to date with what the building regulations are doing. Obviously, there's lots of other things that could be improved in terms of building regulations as well.

388 00:57:02.570 --> 00:57:05.080 Andrew Maliphant: Stuart, you've got your hand up again, mate.

389 00:57:05.220 --> 00:57:07.629 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Yeah, just one last question.

390 00:57:07.790 --> 00:57:08.660 Jess Ryan: No good fruit.

391 00:57:08.660 --> 00:57:16.369 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I live quite a lot off-grid. I've got no mains gas, or mains sewage.

392 00:57:16.670 --> 00:57:20.010 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: So, I have…

393 00:57:22.210 --> 00:57:32.030 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I think it's two in the system, old, cesspit things, but they've now got to go into, what they call the digester.

394 00:57:32.190 --> 00:57:39.489 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Which is basically just narrator, and it then goes out into… Into my moat, actually.

395 00:57:40.110 --> 00:57:47.229 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Could I be using the sludge, which collects in the El Cesspit bits?

396 00:57:48.050 --> 00:57:52.939 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: which has been sitting there for several years before I get it pumped out.

397 00:57:55.150 --> 00:58:13.340 Jess Ryan: I think that, speaking of regulation, I think that's where you're going to run into trouble. It's not the actual practicality of doing it, or whether it's a good thing to do, but I think you're then… you might… I mean, again, really not an expert, so definitely reach out to the regulators in your area, but…

398 00:58:13.340 --> 00:58:20.249 Jess Ryan: I think you might then stumble into this issue of, because it's now mixed, it's sewage sludge, which is stupid.

399 00:58:20.260 --> 00:58:21.370 Jess Ryan: But…

400 00:58:22.090 --> 00:58:30.669 Jess Ryan: But in theory, yes, I think that's fine, right? Because all that's gone into that container is the stuff from your toilet and from your sinks.

401 00:58:30.850 --> 00:58:35.559 Jess Ryan: And all of that can… can… you would then want to compost it, but…

402 00:58:35.560 --> 00:58:36.290 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Yeah.

403 00:58:36.290 --> 00:58:36.930 Jess Ryan: Yeah.

404 00:58:37.330 --> 00:58:37.870 Jess Ryan: Yeah.

405 00:58:37.870 --> 00:58:43.300 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: I must say, I've lived here for years, and I've never noticed any smell from it.

406 00:58:44.040 --> 00:58:58.769 Jess Ryan: It's amazing how not smelly it is, right? Like, people… yeah, I have a cat, and obviously have to empty his litter box. That smells considerably worse than anything I've had to deal with with the compost toilet. Yeah.

407 00:59:00.710 --> 00:59:09.279 Jess Ryan: Yeah, it's… it's… it's fine. It's… it's the only… the bad smell was, the pee bottle before I put the citric acid in. That wasn't nice.

408 00:59:09.700 --> 00:59:10.490 Jess Ryan: Yep.

409 00:59:11.050 --> 00:59:11.770 Andrew Maliphant: Interesting.

410 00:59:11.770 --> 00:59:12.690 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Okay, thank you.

411 00:59:12.860 --> 00:59:18.930 Andrew Maliphant: When my father did… worked at the University of the West Indies, so we're living in Trinidad, and they… we had

412 00:59:19.310 --> 00:59:28.640 Andrew Maliphant: cesspits there, and there was a nearby orange tree that produced fabulous fruit, so, it's too late for me to find out whether there's any connection between the two, but,

413 00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:34.830 Andrew Maliphant: The… I think the cesspits were far… rather more fundamental than perhaps the ones you get these days.

414 00:59:35.100 --> 00:59:37.889 Andrew Maliphant: I think it was, they were basically,

415 00:59:38.710 --> 00:59:42.070 Andrew Maliphant: basically a hole in the ground full of rocks, I think, but there we go.

416 00:59:42.580 --> 00:59:46.499 Jess Ryan: One, a fun fact that, is,

417 00:59:47.180 --> 01:00:03.560 Jess Ryan: So, the UK, we kind of… we used to, throw the toilet stuff, sort of into the streets and bits like this, and had nights all, right? And then, that wasn't a great idea. It was a bit closer to the right idea than what we have now, but it wasn't going to work.

418 01:00:03.710 --> 01:00:05.140 Jess Ryan: And…

419 01:00:05.350 --> 01:00:18.700 Jess Ryan: supposedly, there was sort of calls for, okay, we need a solution to this, and folks were looking into what are composting toilets, they called them earth closets,

420 01:00:18.700 --> 01:00:25.940 Jess Ryan: And then there were folks looking into flush toilets, and the flush toilet got chosen. But there was a kind of…

421 01:00:26.080 --> 01:00:39.169 Jess Ryan: a moment when we could have… could have chosen a better course, but we were so stressed out about, the kind of, contamination that had happened in the waterways that we… I don't know.

422 01:00:39.300 --> 01:00:45.340 Jess Ryan: chose a polluting system. The logic is a bit strange, but that's what we did.

423 01:00:45.940 --> 01:00:54.210 Andrew Maliphant: Well, I'm sure we can all agree, would always agree, that a bit more joined-up thinking in terms of human life is going to be very useful, because it doesn't seem to happen very often.

424 01:00:55.110 --> 01:01:03.239 Jess Ryan: Yeah, and it's changing path based on, kind of, new knowledge, right? I think it's, yeah, we're not always great at doing that, but…

425 01:01:04.010 --> 01:01:05.090 Jess Ryan: M.

426 01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:06.170 Andrew Maliphant: Okay.

427 01:01:06.170 --> 01:01:20.229 Jess Ryan: Yeah, but yeah, strongly recommend the book. Even Joe's website is really good, and I've emailed him, and he's really nice, and helpful about different bits, so that's the URL for his book. He's got a couple, but this is the best one.

428 01:01:20.890 --> 01:01:21.480 Andrew Maliphant: Good.

429 01:01:21.980 --> 01:01:39.279 Andrew Maliphant: Well, we must say thank you very much again. I'm going to put on my nice little clapping hands thing, because I think it's been a great occasion. We've had some great questions as well, and I'm sure a lot of people are going to be wanting to look at this, recording and see what they, what they're about. So thanks very much, and, this may well be a topic we come back to again.

430 01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:57.800 Andrew Maliphant: The, next week, as I said, a gentle called Jamie Russell, who's the, he's the, community, organizing lead for the National Emergency Briefing, which is the film, people going around, so it'll be fascinating to hear what he has to say, and,

431 01:01:57.980 --> 01:02:08.460 Andrew Maliphant: I'm not going to ask him if we're going to be doing community organising, why aren't you encouraging people to turn, get more community action out of this film screening, rather than just badgering Gary? So, I will ask him, and we'll see what he says.

432 01:02:08.580 --> 01:02:14.369 Andrew Maliphant: So thanks very much again, and we will look forward to seeing people next week, if you're able to join us.

433 01:02:14.370 --> 01:02:15.350 Jess Ryan: Thanks so much for having me.

434 01:02:15.350 --> 01:02:19.070 Andrew Maliphant: Same time, same channel, same dot on the dial.

435 01:02:19.220 --> 01:02:23.569 Bea Oliver: Sorry, are you available for a quick call after this?

436 01:02:23.570 --> 01:02:30.569 Jess Ryan: yep. And just to say, yep, please feel free to email me, I'm really rubbish at replying, but eventually I will.

437 01:02:30.570 --> 01:02:32.889 Bea Oliver: I'll send you an email right now with my phone number.

438 01:02:32.890 --> 01:02:35.290 Jess Ryan: Thank you! Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

439 01:02:35.290 --> 01:02:37.070 Cllr Stuart Withington Gt Dunmow TC, Essex: Thanks a lot. Bye.

440 01:02:37.940 --> 01:02:39.610 Andrew Maliphant: Well, everybody, take care.