Banter 118: 06May26 Improving Local Food Productivity with Jo Boswell
organic farming, sustainable practices, B-Corp certification, mob grazing, Highland and Belted Galloway cattle, goats, implementation of worm farms and composting, vermicasts, soil regeneration
Video Timeline:
00:00 - 21:00 Presentation by Jo
21:00 - 55:56 (end) Q & A
Presentation - Banter 118 06May26
No separate presentation for this session - the video is the presentation
Meeting Summary - Banter 118 Local Food Productivity
May 06, 2026 11:51 AM London ID: 834 5460 8536
Quick recap
This meeting featured Josephine Boswell from the Garlic Farm on the Isle of Wight discussing their transition to organic farming and sustainable practices. Josephine explained their B-Corp certification journey, mob grazing system using Highland and Belted Galloway cattle, and implementation of worm farms and composting systems to create vermicast for soil regeneration. The discussion covered their challenges with soil recovery taking 5-10 years, climate change impacts including extreme weather affecting farming, and their efforts to educate the public through workshops and school visits. Participants asked questions about goat management, wormery applications, government support for climate adaptation, and the balance between raw food production and value-added products like relishes. The conversation highlighted the difficulties of organic farming, including higher costs and the need for diverse revenue streams through education and tourism to support the business model.
Next steps
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Summary
Garlic Farm Climate Action Meeting
Graham hosted a meeting with participants including Frank, Barbara, Sean from Climate Action Wendover, and Josephine from the Garlic Farm on the Isle of Wight. The meeting began with casual conversation about travel plans and introductions, with Josephine confirming she would represent the garlic farm in place of Barnes who was unable to attend.
Garlic Farm's Organic Transition
Josephine Boswell, impact lead at Garlic Farm, discussed the farm's transition to organic practices and B Corp certification. She explained their mob grazing system using Highland and Belted Galloway cattle, which helps maintain healthy land and reduce vet bills. Josephine also outlined the farm's comprehensive operations, including a shop, restaurant, market garden, and accommodation, all aligned with their sustainable mission. She emphasized that while these certifications require additional effort, they ultimately lead to financial benefits and improved staff retention.
Soil Nutrient Density Farming System
Josephine explained their farming operation's focus on increasing soil nutrient density through a 5-year rotation system across 10 hectares, with 2 hectares cultivated at a time using cow manure and cover crops. She detailed their closed-loop system that processes restaurant food waste through a Rhydan composter and worm farms to produce vermicast, which is used to create compost tea for soil regeneration. The market garden currently uses a no-dig approach to address compacted soil issues and focuses on high-value crops like salads, greens, and herbs, with plans to expand based on profitability while maintaining educational workshops and restaurant sales as key income streams.
Sustainable Farming and Soil Recovery
The meeting focused on sustainable farming practices and soil recovery, with Josephine sharing her experiences managing a farm on the Isle of Wight. She explained that soil recovery takes 5-10 years with proper management, noting significant improvements in worm count and infiltration over the past three years. The discussion covered various topics including goat management using electric fencing and collars, wormery operations for processing food waste, and the challenges of transitioning to organic farming. Josephine highlighted the lack of direct climate advice from DEFRA to farmers despite funding climate-resilient projects. The conversation also addressed the balance between producing raw food and value-added products, with Josephine emphasizing the importance of diversifying income streams and considering the holistic purpose of farming operations beyond just financial returns.
Chat - Banter 118 Local Food Productivity
00:46:16 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: worth watching https://www.sixinchesofsoil.org/ 00:46:45 Barbara Evans Help and Kindness/Feeding Dorset Partnership: Reacted to "worth watching https..." with 👍 01:09:27 Barbara Evans Help and Kindness/Feeding Dorset Partnership: Thank you so much Jo, that was fascinating. 01:09:41 Barbara Evans Help and Kindness/Feeding Dorset Partnership: Thank you everyone
audio-transcript:
93 00:13:50.530 --> 00:14:09.249 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Right, well, let me just start the ball rolling by saying, hello to everybody, and today we are having a chat from Joe in the garlic farm on the Isle of Wight, which is one of our major tourist attractions, amongst other things, but she's got much more important things on her mind than tourism.
94 00:14:09.640 --> 00:14:14.240 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: And I went there and had a fantastic evening.
95 00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:29.910 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: a couple of weeks ago, when we were treated to the story of what they've been doing to increase their food productivity, and then moving into market farming and organic farming, and all sorts of things. So, hopefully we're going to get fascinated by that.
96 00:14:30.510 --> 00:14:40.820 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: So, Joe, I think we've reached the magic 5 minutes, which is the limit I give people. If you care to take over, introduce yourself, and tell us what you're going to talk to us about, and then we'll go from there.
97 00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:42.070 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Yes.
98 00:14:42.070 --> 00:14:51.219 Josephine Boswell: So, hello everybody, my name's Joe Josephine Boswell. I am a member of the garlic farm family, so I grew up on the garlic farm.
99 00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:55.670 Josephine Boswell: And I have been away,
100 00:14:55.960 --> 00:15:00.450 Josephine Boswell: Since the age of about 16, and moved back 3 years ago.
101 00:15:00.570 --> 00:15:10.299 Josephine Boswell: to join the family farm, as impact lead, so I manage all of our social and environmental impact. That's quite,
102 00:15:10.890 --> 00:15:16.090 Josephine Boswell: I guess because we're a B Corporation, I'll talk about that a little bit more…
103 00:15:16.540 --> 00:15:22.370 Josephine Boswell: That's a sort of a more hefty task than it might be in other, companies.
104 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:31.309 Josephine Boswell: And I think coming back to the farm, for me, was a much easier decision, given the way the farm was moving towards
105 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:47.750 Josephine Boswell: I've been an eco-warrior, for want of a better word for it, my whole life, and the gear to organic was something I've been sort of banging the drum about for a long time, so when the farm started to move in that direction, I knew it was,
106 00:15:47.900 --> 00:15:49.950 Josephine Boswell: It was, you know, a more welcoming…
107 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:55.909 Josephine Boswell: place for me to come back to. So rather than sort of shouting from the sidelines, I'm now…
108 00:15:56.030 --> 00:16:00.080 Josephine Boswell: Involved… deeply involved in that, which is really, really great.
109 00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:17.690 Josephine Boswell: I… my… my personal journey to… through, I guess, through life has always been around food. I've worked in, I've worked in food, whether it be my own businesses, running festival and catering operations.
110 00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:36.450 Josephine Boswell: or, in big, sort of, multinationals, like managing Carluccio's, so I've had a real, different ends of the spectrum view into food, service. And then more recently, with the… with COVID, like so many people, my whole festival
111 00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:46.479 Josephine Boswell: operation was sort of put on hold for a couple of years, and I took it as an opportunity to move into something I was more passionate about, which is growing food organically.
112 00:16:48.700 --> 00:17:07.390 Josephine Boswell: And I worked as a, managing a market garden in Bristol in a very deprived part of the world called, Parkcliffe, where they have many food deserts, and the operation was growing organic food with a veg box scheme, and supporting people in the community to work,
113 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:18.190 Josephine Boswell: you know, with their hands outside, so we did a lot of green social prescribing, and, working with vulnerable people, basically, to improve their health through, through gardening. So that…
114 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:35.649 Josephine Boswell: is my sort of journey back to… and then I had children, and then came back to work on the farm, and then most recently, in the last few months, I have been, I guess, realizing a dream, which is to set up a market garden on the farm.
115 00:17:35.690 --> 00:17:38.519 Josephine Boswell: To grow food for the restaurant.
116 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:47.260 Josephine Boswell: However, that is a very small part of what the garlic farm is doing, and I'm going to talk a little bit about
117 00:17:47.260 --> 00:17:59.120 Josephine Boswell: Well, a lot, really, about our journey to organic, how we, yeah, how we're managing our land to improve the soil, why we got there, etc.
118 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:10.810 Josephine Boswell: So, I guess going back, to… I mean, almost to my granddad. My granddad moved down here in the 50s, classic conventional farming, you know, using all of the…
119 00:18:10.810 --> 00:18:24.110 Josephine Boswell: All of the… all of what was available to them to grow food for the world, which was what they believed was their, it very much was their, mission, to the detriment, as we all now know, of the soil.
120 00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:27.330 Josephine Boswell: And so, in recent years, we have been
121 00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:38.689 Josephine Boswell: as a family… as a family ownership group, which we became in… over COVID, it was a real decision from the sort of top-down of what do we want the farm to stand for and be about.
122 00:18:42.080 --> 00:19:04.840 Josephine Boswell: which I think is the most important thing, really, for any business, to figure that out. And for us, it was to improve, to look after the land we have been, you know, entrusted with, and to leave it in a better way than we found it. And so the journey began towards organic, first of all. We're Pasture for Life certified. We are B Corp certified, which means we do business for the good of
123 00:19:04.840 --> 00:19:07.409 Josephine Boswell: Of people and planets, as well as profit.
124 00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:15.349 Josephine Boswell: I don't know if anyone has come into B Corp… the B Corp logo, or knows what B Corp is. Anyone?
125 00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:16.790 Josephine Boswell: Vote, no.
126 00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:38.160 Josephine Boswell: You have an idea, Frank? Yeah. It's a big… it's a rigorous, certification, which you don't take on lightly. It took us 5 years to become certified, and we are looking to become recertified in January, and it's a… it's a big investment, but we believe that it's,
127 00:19:38.980 --> 00:19:43.179 Josephine Boswell: it's… it's worth… it's worth it. Frank, did you have a question?
128 00:19:43.180 --> 00:19:45.909 frank deas Killearn: No, no, no, I was just… I'm aware of BCOR.
129 00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:49.049 Josephine Boswell: You're aware of people, yeah. So…
130 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:57.260 Josephine Boswell: Yes, so all of those things, our journey towards a better soil has been partly, well…
131 00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:14.719 Josephine Boswell: hugely fueled by our fertilizers, which is our herd of cows. So obviously, in an organic system, you've got to find a way of fertilizing the land that doesn't come from chemicals, and we use our, ever-growing herd of cattle,
132 00:20:14.830 --> 00:20:17.899 Josephine Boswell: Highland and Gelted Galloways.
133 00:20:17.930 --> 00:20:28.230 Josephine Boswell: We use a system of mob grazing, so, basically only letting the cows eat a small section of a field at a time.
134 00:20:28.230 --> 00:20:41.540 Josephine Boswell: for 24 hours, and then moving them on. It's quite hard to explain this in, words, it's quite… it's easy when we're looking at a field, but if you imagine you take a field, and you split it up into long strips.
135 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:46.709 Josephine Boswell: Using, electric fences, You allow the cows onto…
136 00:20:47.770 --> 00:20:57.120 Josephine Boswell: to one strip of land for 24 hours. Now, what that does is it means that they are eating that grass. Essentially, they're taking the head off that grass once.
137 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:14.170 Josephine Boswell: So, when grass is cut, it does stimulate root growth and growth, but if you keep hacking away at it, you will stress the plant out. So, the idea with mob grazing is you are only cutting that grass once, or the cows are biting it, and then allowing
138 00:21:14.650 --> 00:21:30.159 Josephine Boswell: and then you move them on to the next strip of land, so therefore allowing the land they've been on, and they've been pooing on, to recover and regenerate. Now, we basically do that system across our entire farm.
139 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:39.409 Josephine Boswell: And more recently, we have been given, because of the way we've been managing the land, or Barnes has been managing the land, we've teamed up with the
140 00:21:39.580 --> 00:21:54.219 Josephine Boswell: Wildlife Trust, who… we are looking after land for them as well, which is great for us because it means that we can have higher quantities of cattle, great for them because they know that their land is being managed in a way that they are aligned with.
141 00:21:54.400 --> 00:22:00.779 Josephine Boswell: And it basically allows us to sort of increase our acreage without having any more land.
142 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:14.240 Josephine Boswell: So, yeah, the transition to organic is sort of… is past and done, but it's an ongoing process that, you know, we're very passionate about,
143 00:22:14.860 --> 00:22:33.190 Josephine Boswell: And we have seen the benefit of this system of managing our cattle, so since turning organic and using this mob grazing system, just to be clear, that means that our cattle are outside the whole year round. We're not putting them into any kind of, shelter over winter, so they're outwintered cattle. And…
144 00:22:33.290 --> 00:22:37.449 Josephine Boswell: By grazing them in this way, and sowing
145 00:22:38.310 --> 00:22:55.119 Josephine Boswell: the fields in which they're grazing with a variety of different crops, they are getting a much more varied diet, and therefore, we see the vet bills massively reduced, they're not being pumped full of antibiotics, you've got healthier cows, healthier land.
146 00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:03.399 Josephine Boswell: It is a win-win situation, but as you can imagine, it does take quite a lot of management, people management, although with the right kit.
147 00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:18.750 Josephine Boswell: the right electric fences, quads with machines on the back to roll out the fences. You know, you are looking at a one-man… a one-man operation to manage large, large quantities of cattle and land.
148 00:23:18.790 --> 00:23:25.349 Josephine Boswell: So we also, have a herd of goats, which…
149 00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:36.949 Josephine Boswell: So both the goats and the cattle are raised to, provide meat for our restaurant, so we are aiming for our restaurant to be 100% self-sufficient in beef and goat meat.
150 00:23:37.340 --> 00:23:40.369 Josephine Boswell: And in time, with, like I said, with…
151 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:46.740 Josephine Boswell: with the using of the Wildlife Trust land, we hope to be able to increase our herd to such a…
152 00:23:48.140 --> 00:24:03.649 Josephine Boswell: point where we can sell the meat also in the shop. We have an on-site shop and restaurant. I should have explained, really. I'm sort of presuming everyone knows about the garlic farm, but the garlic farm consists of a large shop, restaurant.
153 00:24:03.780 --> 00:24:19.340 Josephine Boswell: Farm that's free to access, a market garden, large online and wholesale presence and seed garlic operation, and we have accommodation as well at the farm for, families in yurts and cottages.
154 00:24:19.410 --> 00:24:29.259 Josephine Boswell: So it's a complex, mix of things, all run by… there's three members of the family running them, with their partners.
155 00:24:29.410 --> 00:24:32.280 Josephine Boswell: And…
156 00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:41.339 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, everyone is aligned in the sort of organic, sustainable mission, which is very important to bring all of those pieces together.
157 00:24:41.460 --> 00:25:00.190 Josephine Boswell: And, you know, everyone has to be believing in this, because it takes extra effort, as anyone who's farmed organically or grown organically will know. And that applies also for the B Corp certification. You are requiring a lot of your teams to go the extra mile to
158 00:25:00.830 --> 00:25:12.620 Josephine Boswell: be more careful with their energy use, be more careful with their, waste, look after their teams better. But what we've found is, with all of these certifications.
159 00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:17.610 Josephine Boswell: They end up, in the long run, saving you money.
160 00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:37.539 Josephine Boswell: And I think that is a really, really important point for any business or organization to look at if you're going to switch to something or take on something, is, you know, is it financially viable? Is it financially beneficial? And, you know, arguably, we are doing these things because we care about them.
161 00:25:37.540 --> 00:25:49.170 Josephine Boswell: But we're a business, and if they weren't financially beneficial to us, we wouldn't, we wouldn't continue. Because a lot of people look at something like the B Corp certification and think they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, but actually.
162 00:25:49.800 --> 00:25:58.320 Josephine Boswell: In the long run, you're, you know, you've got a higher retention of staff, you're looking after them better, you're reducing your energy costs massively,
163 00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:01.509 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, this… the sustainable road.
164 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.079 Josephine Boswell: It's sustainable in all… in all senses.
165 00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:17.369 Josephine Boswell: So, am I… have I got… is everyone… yeah, everyone's sort of keeping up? Sorry, it's a lot of… we'll stop for some questions at the end, Graham, I suppose.
166 00:26:18.300 --> 00:26:23.730 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, okay. So… a fi…
167 00:26:24.110 --> 00:26:39.410 Josephine Boswell: a couple of things about our, sort of, organic fertiliser options. On the… we've got the cows, which do an enormous amount of our work for us. We've got the different kinds of herbal lays, so the different planting schemes that we're using in the fields.
168 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:46.510 Josephine Boswell: So they in themselves are, you know, giving different root depths, different plants giving off different,
169 00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:51.500 Josephine Boswell: Working differently with the microbes in the soil to increase the,
170 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.679 Josephine Boswell: Increase the nutrient density of the soil.
171 00:26:54.830 --> 00:27:10.930 Josephine Boswell: and the plants on top of it. We have our… in all of this operation, we have our garlic in 2 hectare plots on a 5-year rotation. So that's 10 hectares of garlic growing fields.
172 00:27:11.850 --> 00:27:15.520 Josephine Boswell: Two hectares, grown at any one time.
173 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.369 Josephine Boswell: And that allows 5 years for those
174 00:27:18.510 --> 00:27:23.940 Josephine Boswell: other fields to recover with only… solely the input of cow
175 00:27:24.070 --> 00:27:27.860 Josephine Boswell: Cows and cover crops, to fertilise them.
176 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.420 Josephine Boswell: In the Market Garden.
177 00:27:32.550 --> 00:27:43.660 Josephine Boswell: a huge part of the, I guess, the business model is to be a closed-loop system, so not buying in… eventually, not buying in any, inputs from outside.
178 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:54.719 Josephine Boswell: And part of that is driven by our food waste operations. So in the restaurant, we have a large, busy restaurant in the summer, doing up to 600 covers a day.
179 00:27:55.040 --> 00:28:00.250 Josephine Boswell: you can imagine that's an awful lot of food waste, and that was one of the first things I was
180 00:28:00.360 --> 00:28:06.069 Josephine Boswell: keen to tackle when I first got back here. So we have what's called a Rydan composter.
181 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:17.490 Josephine Boswell: This is a sort of huge, if you can imagine, a huge sort of tumbler, or tombola. Food waste goes in one end with a mixed
182 00:28:21.020 --> 00:28:23.719 Josephine Boswell: Shredded cardboard, sawdust.
183 00:28:24.020 --> 00:28:37.030 Josephine Boswell: It gets turned, and out of the other end of the tumbler comes… within 10 days, you get a kind of partially broken down food stuff, or compost.
184 00:28:37.270 --> 00:28:49.340 Josephine Boswell: We could then put that into a maturation bin, and within 3 months, that would create really great compost. But actually, our system at the farm, because we've teamed up with the worm farm.
185 00:28:49.590 --> 00:28:58.250 Josephine Boswell: Is that we have 3 industrial-sized worm farms, where all of the food waste that comes out of the… or compost, if you like.
186 00:28:58.360 --> 00:29:04.670 Josephine Boswell: that comes out of the Rydan, goes to the worms, The worms digest it.
187 00:29:04.850 --> 00:29:12.560 Josephine Boswell: And what comes out of that is a very, very fine, it's called vermicast. It's essentially worm castings.
188 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:32.359 Josephine Boswell: the best thing you could possibly apply to your plants or your soil. And so, how we use that is we either make a compost tea, which… a little sort of tea bag full of vermicast, which goes in each watering can on the market garden scale, or we make a big vat of tea with sort of an aerator.
189 00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:44.529 Josephine Boswell: Or we haven't, but we intend to use that on a field scale by putting it in a huge IBC on the back of a tractor, so about a kilo of vermicast teabag.
190 00:29:44.610 --> 00:29:48.230 Josephine Boswell: on an IVC at the back of a tractor, and then sprayed onto the land.
191 00:29:50.340 --> 00:29:59.609 Josephine Boswell: What that is doing is… if you have soils that have been massively degenerated, they are lacking microbial life.
192 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:09.610 Josephine Boswell: And you can tell that by just putting a spade in the soil, on various, bits of our land, certainly, that were heavily farmed, conventionally farmed.
193 00:30:10.120 --> 00:30:21.269 Josephine Boswell: So what you're doing with these teas is you're providing microbial life, so the vermicast is full of microbes, if you imagine that food waste is passed through the gut of a worm.
194 00:30:21.570 --> 00:30:36.369 Josephine Boswell: full of beneficial microbes. You then add that to water with some food, like molasses, or… and some fresh compost, and you're basically making a concoction
195 00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:54.270 Josephine Boswell: that is going to increase the number of microbes by feeding them, and then you are applying that to the land. It's not witchcraft, it's proven science, and it's an excellent way in an organic system of
196 00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:05.940 Josephine Boswell: in, regenerating, bringing back the soils, along with, you know, it's not one fix wonder. You've got cover crops, you've got, you've got the
197 00:31:06.860 --> 00:31:23.460 Josephine Boswell: the cows, and you've got these bio… they're called biostimulants. And don't get me wrong, they won't work as fast as whacking on a load of fertilizers, but they won't damage the soil, they'll increase the soil, and once we get the soil back to
198 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:27.210 Josephine Boswell: You know, a better state.
199 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:45.549 Josephine Boswell: then it's easier to manage it going forward, but the turnaround from where we're at, particularly in the market garden, my struggle is that the land was so heavily cultivated that we had all of that rain, and now it's just gone solid like a… kind of like a block of cement.
200 00:31:45.550 --> 00:31:51.510 Josephine Boswell: the way I'm dealing with that for this initial year is I'm doing no-dig, a no-dig approach.
201 00:31:55.120 --> 00:31:56.340 Josephine Boswell: the ground.
202 00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:11.819 Josephine Boswell: I'm gently levering the, soil to aerate it without, you know, a plow would essentially just turn it upside down. That is not… that would damage all… any soil life that was in there.
203 00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:14.770 Josephine Boswell: So… the process…
204 00:32:15.710 --> 00:32:30.879 Josephine Boswell: As with the broadforkers, you're just breaking up the land enough so that the compost you put on top, and any of the vermicast or any of the amendments that you put on top, will eventually make their way down through the soil, and the worms, ideally, will do the work.
205 00:32:31.250 --> 00:32:45.299 Josephine Boswell: The worm farms are an amazing, contribution from… from the worm farm, my friends at the worm farm. They, kindly haven't asked us to pay for them, because we're sort of modeling them and prototyping them.
206 00:32:45.550 --> 00:32:54.789 Josephine Boswell: And so far, I'm… I'm massively impressed by what… I mean, worms will save us, if nothing else will. So if we can…
207 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.219 Josephine Boswell: I really think that this sort of…
208 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:05.550 Josephine Boswell: I'm quite passionate about composting. I think that we need to look at composting in a big way in communities,
209 00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:24.800 Josephine Boswell: as a form of community bringing together, but also as a way of providing communities with great quality compost to then use on their market gardens or in their gardens. But anyway, that's a sort of… that's a bit of a… a bit of a sideline, although compost is essentially at the center of… of our operation when it comes to the market garden.
210 00:33:28.250 --> 00:33:35.180 Josephine Boswell: I think, yeah, the last bit, so I guess where I'm with the market garden currently, what I'm looking at is trying…
211 00:33:38.690 --> 00:33:44.919 Josephine Boswell: Very, very high, high-value crops, like salads,
212 00:33:45.430 --> 00:33:48.709 Josephine Boswell: Greens and herbs and edible flowers.
213 00:33:50.860 --> 00:34:08.709 Josephine Boswell: And I hope that in time, once we've sort of really mastered those and shown we can turn a profit, we'll eventually modularly increase the size of the garden, growing different things, because essentially we do want it to be a model for people to look at and be inspired.
214 00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:16.579 Josephine Boswell: And learn how to… a huge part of the income for the garden is through, educational visits.
215 00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:20.350 Josephine Boswell: Workshops, lessons.
216 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:34.330 Josephine Boswell: residential week… weekends, that kind of thing, as well as selling the veg to the restaurant. But anyone who's ever sold veg knows you need to sell an awful lot of it to turn a profit, so looking at other income streams is very important.
217 00:34:34.710 --> 00:34:48.760 Josephine Boswell: So, yes, I think… I don't know how long you expect me to talk for. I… I think maybe some… if there are any questions, that would be great. Otherwise I might… you might get a bit waffly if it wasn't waffly already.
218 00:34:51.170 --> 00:35:00.559 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: That was a lot of fun, Joe, thank you very much. I do have a couple of questions before the rest of the world pitches in, if I may. And…
219 00:35:01.140 --> 00:35:12.270 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: I just wondered how long it takes to turn around the soil from its current exhausted condition to what you would call reasonable again. Are we talking years?
220 00:35:12.270 --> 00:35:14.610 Josephine Boswell: Very much so, yes.
221 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.260 Josephine Boswell: Well…
222 00:35:16.810 --> 00:35:30.890 Josephine Boswell: Yes and no. We're talking years for the… it depends, like anything, you know, if I was there tending to it every hour of the day, doing absolutely everything that it required, it would probably be a lot quicker, but…
223 00:35:30.910 --> 00:35:40.159 Josephine Boswell: If you're looking at… it is a long game, so across the… you're probably looking at between a 5 and 10-year period to really see
224 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:52.960 Josephine Boswell: A huge change, but we have seen change in the last 3 years with how we've been managing the soil in terms of increased worm count, infiltration, both really good.
225 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:53.470 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: And we couldn't.
226 00:35:53.470 --> 00:36:02.090 Josephine Boswell: easy ways to look at improvement of the soil. But yeah, it's certainly a long game rather than a quick fix.
227 00:36:02.620 --> 00:36:14.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Which is actually, I think, very inspiring. It's lovely to know that there are people out there who are saying, not only is this saving us money, but it's also saving the planet, and it's taking a long view. Wonderful.
228 00:36:14.490 --> 00:36:15.410 Josephine Boswell: When I think…
229 00:36:15.510 --> 00:36:21.239 Josephine Boswell: So just on that, one of the things that we, discussed as an ownership group was
230 00:36:21.560 --> 00:36:23.320 Josephine Boswell: There's a, kind of.
231 00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:39.009 Josephine Boswell: in the Indigenous culture of looking at, any decision you make and how it impacts eight generations into the future. We don't quite go that far, but it is about thinking about the future generations rather than
232 00:36:39.650 --> 00:36:44.039 Josephine Boswell: That's, you know, rather than this one.
233 00:36:44.430 --> 00:37:01.420 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: And the other question was, I know, sort of, you have a long-term aim of getting these principles in use all the way across the country, the more, the better. But do your education, your workshops, do they take people from the North Island, or are you just dealing with local people?
234 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.049 Josephine Boswell: I'm… I'm sorta… so…
235 00:37:05.180 --> 00:37:24.989 Josephine Boswell: I get… we've got some DEFRA funding, which allows me 25 visits… pays… pays for 25 visits, and I'm… I'm certainly giving Isle of Wight schools the first dibs on that, but I take… no, I take educational… if it's an educational visit, I don't mind where… I don't mind where they come from. I'm very passionate about
236 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:32.149 Josephine Boswell: inspiring young people on the island, because we have a great rural… we have an opportunity here with a lot of great,
237 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:42.649 Josephine Boswell: land to, you know, grow more food, which we don't currently do, but that doesn't mean, you know, I'm interested in that happening across the country.
238 00:37:43.350 --> 00:37:49.760 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: I've got a bunch of other questions, so let me move on to other people. So, Sean, would you like to have a go?
239 00:37:50.020 --> 00:37:58.240 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, Joe, that's fantastic, thank you very much. I've got loads of questions, but I'll… maybe other people will ask some as well.
240 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:11.930 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I loved your mention of goats at the early stage there. Can I ask how you keep them? Because, I'm kind of representing a parish council, and, it…
241 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:25.640 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: We have the Bucks Goat center in our area, but they're very much constrained within tight fences, and they're really just for kids to go and pet more than anything else.
242 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.160 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: How do you stop them escaping?
243 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:36.810 Josephine Boswell: Not with, not without difficulty. We've recently,
244 00:38:37.510 --> 00:38:47.099 Josephine Boswell: Invested in some, what are essentially, like, collars that give them a slight jolt when they move out of the area that you want them to be in, which work very well.
245 00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:47.490 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yep.
246 00:38:47.490 --> 00:39:02.669 Josephine Boswell: a lot of electric fencing, and a lot of time, a lot of people management, really, from Joe, who looks after our… looks after our goats for us. And they are as… they are the most fragile part of the operation in terms of
247 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:08.980 Josephine Boswell: You know, we are constantly assessing whether it's worth our while having them.
248 00:39:09.460 --> 00:39:19.790 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, we… I was wondering whether, you know, sort of a public entity could have them on bits of scrubland to, you know, what… what… what do they eat?
249 00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:21.430 Josephine Boswell: Anything.
250 00:39:22.270 --> 00:39:24.220 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: So, I was wondering if that could…
251 00:39:24.220 --> 00:39:24.580 Josephine Boswell: including…
252 00:39:24.580 --> 00:39:25.290 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: We use it.
253 00:39:25.290 --> 00:39:31.499 Josephine Boswell: all the good stuff, so I wouldn't… for example, I wouldn't put them anywhere near the market garden unless I could, you know.
254 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:43.640 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: stick them in a bit of scrubland. One question, then I'll hand over again. On the wormery side, could you imagine that that could be used
255 00:39:43.770 --> 00:39:45.340 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: with,
256 00:39:45.440 --> 00:40:04.420 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: not so much food… I mean, I'm sure we could generate food waste, but not so much food waste, but we've got lots of parkland and forestry and that sort of thing. Can wormeries work with, I don't know, loads and loads of ivy, or they just couldn't survive…
257 00:40:04.530 --> 00:40:06.609 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I mean, obviously mixing it up, but…
258 00:40:06.610 --> 00:40:09.180 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, they do…
259 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:18.980 Josephine Boswell: They would take a mix of that stuff. I think there are things that they definitely prefer, but, I mean, people are using wormeries to eat dog poo, so.
260 00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:19.580 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Really.
261 00:40:19.580 --> 00:40:27.269 Josephine Boswell: to process dog poo, so they are… there's complexities, and you'd have to, you know, you can't suddenly take a load of worms that have been eaten food
262 00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:44.639 Josephine Boswell: and then just feed them ivy, but if you were feeding them ivy from the beginning, then they might get through it. But I think goats are better… you're probably better off with goats for that. But, what I think wormeries… I think what wormeries… the purpose they could serve is this sort of…
263 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:48.410 Josephine Boswell: Community, engagement piece.
264 00:40:48.410 --> 00:40:48.750 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yes.
265 00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:53.890 Josephine Boswell: Higher, higher awareness around food waste. There are,
266 00:40:53.890 --> 00:41:11.700 Josephine Boswell: There's setups in Germany where they have a wormery at the center of a community where the food, you know, people are coming and feeding them their food waste and really, like, caring for them as a community, and then reaping the rewards of using the vermicast in their gardens or, you know, in their community gardens.
267 00:41:11.700 --> 00:41:17.630 Josephine Boswell: And I think that's something that we could all, you know, be getting Getting use of them from.
268 00:41:18.160 --> 00:41:20.139 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I think we could have a village wormery or something like that.
269 00:41:20.140 --> 00:41:23.410 Josephine Boswell: Absolutely, yeah, because they don't take a lot of management.
270 00:41:23.410 --> 00:41:25.500 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's really…
271 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.599 Josephine Boswell: My friends at the worm farm.
272 00:41:27.600 --> 00:41:30.060 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I've got them on the screen at the moment, so…
273 00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:31.710 Josephine Boswell: Great. Okay.
274 00:41:32.250 --> 00:41:33.549 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, thank you, thanks.
275 00:41:34.060 --> 00:41:40.520 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Yeah, there's quite an amusing bit about the goats with the collars on, on the last Clarkson's farm, wasn't there? They tried it.
276 00:41:40.520 --> 00:41:41.160 Josephine Boswell: Oh, yeah.
277 00:41:41.160 --> 00:41:46.340 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: ended very fine. Frank, over to you, please. I'm sorry, Gary, I beg your pardon.
278 00:41:48.290 --> 00:41:49.120 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: No problem.
279 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:54.910 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Hi, Joe. Hi. I was just wondering… as a farm.
280 00:41:55.210 --> 00:42:04.440 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Have you been receiving any advice or guidance from DEFRA or anyone at all about how to adapt to climate change going forward?
281 00:42:06.660 --> 00:42:14.110 Josephine Boswell: Not directly, no. Which is kind of…
282 00:42:14.470 --> 00:42:22.870 Josephine Boswell: Crazy. However, having said that, we… there's something called, there's a scheme called Farming in Protected Landscapes.
283 00:42:23.150 --> 00:42:25.889 Josephine Boswell: Which is funding, and they're, I guess.
284 00:42:26.140 --> 00:42:31.010 Josephine Boswell: We're not being, sort of, advised directly by DEFRA, but they fund schemes
285 00:42:31.120 --> 00:42:36.439 Josephine Boswell: that are, you know, improving climate resilience, so…
286 00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:45.650 Josephine Boswell: you know, we've put a, we've done a kind of, project up on our downs.
287 00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:58.309 Josephine Boswell: to, basically a water capture project, where we've, used a yeoman's plow to plow in… along the contour lines.
288 00:42:58.750 --> 00:43:05.290 Josephine Boswell: It's not plowing, but it's sort of subsoiling along the contour lines of the valley.
289 00:43:05.570 --> 00:43:07.570 Josephine Boswell: And then planting trees.
290 00:43:07.970 --> 00:43:13.989 Josephine Boswell: also along that same contour line, and this was funded by the likes of Southern Water.
291 00:43:14.230 --> 00:43:21.260 Josephine Boswell: Because they recognise that that is going to so… capture the water as it gushes down the hill.
292 00:43:21.740 --> 00:43:33.919 Josephine Boswell: And it's a process that hasn't been used in the UK… anywhere else in the UK, because most farmers won't plow on the angle, if you see what I mean. They'll go up and down the valley.
293 00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:40.190 Josephine Boswell: So… In terms of being direct… they're not sort of directly
294 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:52.009 Josephine Boswell: Oh, that's basically my answer to you, is they're funding projects that prove to be resilient, you know, improving resilience, but they're not, sort of, directly educating people about how to.
295 00:43:53.210 --> 00:43:55.690 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: But it's a bit crazy, then, that the, you know.
296 00:43:55.940 --> 00:44:00.169 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Food security and impacts on agriculture are one of the main
297 00:44:00.330 --> 00:44:09.549 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: you know, potential impacts going forward. And DEFRA, nobody is actually talking to farmers about it, and saying, like, you know, in 20 years' time, 30 years' time.
298 00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:20.170 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: this type of agriculture might not actually be viable, or it's likely to… you know, this is… these are the crops that we might need to look to… to be… to be moving into, and nobody's…
299 00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:24.680 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Nobody's actually engaging with farmers on this, from what you're saying.
300 00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:30.000 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I find that really surprising, to be honest with you. I find that very, very surprising indeed.
301 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.049 Josephine Boswell: Well, I mean, it's the same as…
302 00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:36.340 Josephine Boswell: You know, really, organic farmers should be the most heavily subsidized.
303 00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:41.119 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that, but I mean, just farming in general, you know…
304 00:44:41.120 --> 00:44:41.440 Josephine Boswell: Yes.
305 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:49.930 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I mean, they're doing these series of films, you know, we've had presentations, like, last week on it, the People's Emergency Briefing.
306 00:44:50.270 --> 00:44:55.279 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: And food security is one of the main topics of that. So, I mean, even getting
307 00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:01.120 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: that… just showing that to all farmers might be something that… that could be, could be useful. I just… I just find it…
308 00:45:01.300 --> 00:45:04.889 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I do find that very surprising, to be honest with you, you know.
309 00:45:05.130 --> 00:45:07.570 Garry Ford - Corsham Town Council: I thought there'd be much more engaged on it.
310 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:15.400 Josephine Boswell: Well, yes. I mean, we are doing our best to bring other farmers on board with
311 00:45:15.580 --> 00:45:32.409 Josephine Boswell: the processes that we are learning about, and we host a lot of evenings, such as Graham came along too, to kind of inform people of another way, but we've… we're surrounded by conventional farming, and it's… it's a little depressing, I would say.
312 00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:39.280 Josephine Boswell: Fields covered in plastic and huge, great, you know, pesticides going onto them.
313 00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:54.089 Josephine Boswell: feels archaic to me, but that's where we're at. We're in a… we're in that, I think, squeeze point of cha… you know, I think there are younger generations farming who are trying to change things, but the old cohort are still there.
314 00:45:54.770 --> 00:45:55.740 Josephine Boswell: And…
315 00:45:56.090 --> 00:46:03.920 Josephine Boswell: there is this challenge of, you know, we're led by the demand of supermarkets, etc. And it's, as we all know, the system is…
316 00:46:04.250 --> 00:46:06.240 Josephine Boswell: The system is problematic.
317 00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:07.450 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Hmm.
318 00:46:07.950 --> 00:46:19.219 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Gary, I think it's very noticeable that on the government's PREPARE site, where they're sort of laying out what they think you should be getting ready for, they don't mention food at all.
319 00:46:19.330 --> 00:46:32.800 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Which is extraordinary, so… but it's called in line with what you're saying. There's a huge opportunity being wasted here at the moment, but I'm glad you raised the point, thank you. Sean, back to you, please.
320 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.360 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I, I, I think, I saw someone else's… I think Frank's hand was up.
321 00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:43.050 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Well, in theory, the system puts them up in order, so you…
322 00:46:43.050 --> 00:46:43.530 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Really?
323 00:46:43.530 --> 00:46:45.740 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Putting him to it, yes.
324 00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:49.099 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: So please go ahead, Sean.
325 00:46:49.100 --> 00:46:54.070 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Oh, okay, sorry. I was just going to mention 6 inches of soil as a… as a.
326 00:46:54.070 --> 00:46:54.590 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Yeah.
327 00:46:54.590 --> 00:46:59.580 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: film that, It's worth watching. That's all.
328 00:47:00.110 --> 00:47:02.250 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: in there, but you've probably all seen it anyway.
329 00:47:03.970 --> 00:47:20.260 Josephine Boswell: I mean, I think you do some… I think, by my understanding, you do similar things in your communities, but, you know, 6 inches of soil, we… we screened at the farm, last year or the year before. Any way to, you know, raise awareness of
330 00:47:20.370 --> 00:47:21.620 Josephine Boswell: these issues.
331 00:47:21.870 --> 00:47:33.610 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: We, we, had, one of the sort of local regen farmers come along and answer questions after that, so the… the… the point there was to, sort of,
332 00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:38.020 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Educate the public why they should be looking for higher quality
333 00:47:38.410 --> 00:47:50.559 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: products, but also get the farmers involved. We have… we're quite a sort of agricultural community here anyway, but it is just…
334 00:47:50.910 --> 00:47:53.089 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Changing the mindset a little bit.
335 00:47:53.090 --> 00:47:53.750 Josephine Boswell: Yep.
336 00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:54.969 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: But,
337 00:47:55.310 --> 00:48:01.869 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: yeah, it all takes time, but he, he was, John Chapman was saying that, I think he'd…
338 00:48:02.120 --> 00:48:06.710 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Was back to profit within 3 years, or something like that, which was…
339 00:48:07.070 --> 00:48:09.009 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Which is… he was happy with.
340 00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:10.130 Josephine Boswell: Hmm.
341 00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:13.539 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Frank, it's your turn.
342 00:48:13.540 --> 00:48:19.720 frank deas Killearn: Thank you very much, that's really interesting. I think, you know, picking up on the point you made by others.
343 00:48:19.810 --> 00:48:33.980 frank deas Killearn: this type of farming you're doing tends to be fragmented and diverse. As you say, you have to find different avenues, different ways to turn a profit, and it's always easier for the government to link or respond to the lobbying of very large agri groups.
344 00:48:34.100 --> 00:48:41.409 frank deas Killearn: who are doing the old self-arming of lots of inputs, and manage your margin. So, unfortunately, I think.
345 00:48:41.410 --> 00:48:42.339 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: There's a medication.
346 00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:53.600 frank deas Killearn: us like this, lobbying and trying to push up is probably the only way to try and respond to that. In terms of composting, then again, I think we're really irritated at Sterling.
347 00:48:53.600 --> 00:49:07.109 frank deas Killearn: A few years ago, it used to have composting of its green waste, and you could go to the council composting site and get bags of compost, and everyone was happy. And then they gave that up as a cost saving about 6 years ago.
348 00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:17.019 frank deas Killearn: And now, when we're lobbying them to get some areas made biodiverse, which means instead of cutting the grass 6 or 8 times a year, they cut it once a year, but have to do a cut and collect.
349 00:49:17.020 --> 00:49:31.680 frank deas Killearn: They don't want to do that, because they have to pay to take the collection, the risings, to fight for some other council who sold compost, because we no longer got the capacity to do it in-house. So there's that short-sightedness and bizarre approach, that's a challenge.
350 00:49:31.680 --> 00:49:39.589 frank deas Killearn: The other one that… and I don't know enough about this, I'm interested if everyone has experienced and got thoughts on it. We've had…
351 00:49:39.590 --> 00:49:57.469 frank deas Killearn: some pushback from people about the ideas of local composting, composting groups in terms of disease control and contamination. So, if you're not… if it's being run properly, and you're ensuring it hits the right temperatures and everything's okay, that's great.
352 00:49:57.870 --> 00:50:08.549 frank deas Killearn: But all it takes is one or two people who don't fully understand it, and who dump stuff in the wrong bin, or move stuff the wrong way, and suddenly you've got all sorts of potential disease. Yeah, yeah.
353 00:50:08.550 --> 00:50:09.390 Josephine Boswell: Reading and coal lines.
354 00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:17.010 Josephine Boswell: your land stuff, yeah. No, it absolutely needs the right education behind it, but I think that's another…
355 00:50:17.690 --> 00:50:23.240 Josephine Boswell: you know, kill… killing of us all by health and safety, you know what I mean?
356 00:50:23.530 --> 00:50:29.779 Josephine Boswell: Like, it's, it's a highly overly, overly, cautious
357 00:50:30.180 --> 00:50:37.880 Josephine Boswell: approach, because one, I don't know, one incident might have happened, I think, for the benefits that it could serve.
358 00:50:38.040 --> 00:50:40.210 Josephine Boswell: Done in the right way.
359 00:50:40.510 --> 00:50:57.489 Josephine Boswell: For example, I had a young guy from the Netherlands come and… a market gardener come and see my garden last week, and he… I said, oh, you know, I'm just struggling because a bag of… if I import compost, which I have to at the moment, because I haven't yet got enough
360 00:50:57.490 --> 00:51:02.170 Josephine Boswell: made myself. It costs me 80… almost, well.
361 00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:18.350 Josephine Boswell: If I'm buying it in bulk, it cost me about 50 quid a ton. 50 quid a ton bag, but bought in not very good quality municipal compost, and he was absolutely shocked. Do you know, it's £2.50 in the Netherlands? A ton.
362 00:51:18.350 --> 00:51:20.129 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Lots of cash.
363 00:51:20.130 --> 00:51:36.420 Josephine Boswell: They have so much of it, because their systems work that you pay to deliver… you pay to get rid of your waste to them. So their income stream is the collection of the stuff, not the sale of the stuff, if that makes sense.
364 00:51:36.910 --> 00:51:54.249 Josephine Boswell: And this… this whole composting, piece, I think, is huge, and, you know, here at the farm, we're sending all of our… on the Isle of Wight, sorry, we send all of our food waste, all of it, raw or… raw or cooked.
365 00:51:54.620 --> 00:51:56.279 Josephine Boswell: to the mainland.
366 00:51:56.410 --> 00:52:00.609 Josephine Boswell: To a biodigester on the mainland. The energy to even take it there.
367 00:52:01.150 --> 00:52:03.709 Josephine Boswell: It doesn't make any sense at all.
368 00:52:03.930 --> 00:52:14.600 Josephine Boswell: And you're missing out on a huge opportunity, to create incredible, incredible compost, which is what we need.
369 00:52:16.150 --> 00:52:18.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: And that's health and safety getting in the way.
370 00:52:18.660 --> 00:52:27.499 Josephine Boswell: Well, to a certain extent, it's not… it's not an unreasonable concern, but there are many, many people… America's very big on… on…
371 00:52:27.590 --> 00:52:46.059 Josephine Boswell: kind of community composting, or these large but good quality composting operations, and it's not rocket science. Like you say, you have to keep it at a certain temperature, not too high, not too low, because if it's too high, that municipal compost that you buy has been literally cooked to death.
372 00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:49.029 Josephine Boswell: So it's lacking in any microbial life.
373 00:52:49.170 --> 00:52:56.230 Josephine Boswell: Whereas you want to get your compost over… I think if it goes over 70 degrees, then you're killing everything, the good and the bad.
374 00:52:56.580 --> 00:52:59.229 Josephine Boswell: But that's probably what they're asking you to do.
375 00:53:00.120 --> 00:53:09.399 Josephine Boswell: Because they don't… they fear the… it's like people are anti-backing their hands all the time. It's not good for you to kill every bit of bacteria on your hands.
376 00:53:10.110 --> 00:53:11.900 Josephine Boswell: We need bacteria.
377 00:53:12.410 --> 00:53:13.630 Josephine Boswell: I'm… yeah.
378 00:53:13.930 --> 00:53:15.460 Josephine Boswell: Different topic, though.
379 00:53:17.290 --> 00:53:25.510 frank deas Killearn: No, I think… I think it is… it's right. The other problem we have is, in recycling glass, the councils look at the best price for it.
380 00:53:25.550 --> 00:53:41.920 frank deas Killearn: And then end up shipping it down to the north of England, because they're getting a better price, and ignoring the environmental costs of trucks traveling down the M6 and M1. You think, you know, it is… it's that inability to look at the whole picture and say, what's the impact of this, and why are we actually trying to achieve forward?
381 00:53:42.170 --> 00:53:42.870 Josephine Boswell: Yeah.
382 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:53.680 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Couple of questions, Joe, which I didn't think you were going to miss out, but you'd appear to. Could you give us a figure… a feeling of…
383 00:53:53.720 --> 00:54:09.550 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: what sort of productivity increase you've seen in the soil that has been… is starting to recover? Because you started off with just the one wormery, didn't you, to feed the, the garlic land itself.
384 00:54:09.670 --> 00:54:15.390 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: And then you discovered that it was doing such a good job that you thought you'd increase it for the market garden.
385 00:54:15.390 --> 00:54:22.810 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, so I've… I mean, I guess a very obvious, sign of it working is I mix
386 00:54:23.210 --> 00:54:43.129 Josephine Boswell: So you… I mix the vermicust with my potting compost, 20%. There's no point adding more than 20%, because it's actually just a waste of the vermicust. 20% is enough, because it's an inoculant, which means it will then, basically, the bacteria will multiply into the rest of the
387 00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:48.459 Josephine Boswell: whatever you put it into. So, if you add it to potting compost.
388 00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:55.320 Josephine Boswell: all the seeds that I've sown in that are just… I mean, it's like they're on… on crack. It's, like, really,
389 00:54:56.620 --> 00:55:16.089 Josephine Boswell: Probably not a very good example. I wouldn't imagine seeds on the racket look very healthy at all, would they? But, they look, like they're, like they're, you know, been pumped full of fertilizers, and that is the best example, really. And then, any of the, the garden that I'm watering with the Vermicast, as well as
390 00:55:16.090 --> 00:55:29.060 Josephine Boswell: Our gardener all over the site uses the spermicus to water all of the… all of the borders and the flowers, and she's noticed a huge difference, because since turning to organic, she was really struggling.
391 00:55:29.090 --> 00:55:32.370 Josephine Boswell: To know what she could use to feed the plants.
392 00:55:32.450 --> 00:55:39.460 Josephine Boswell: And she's found that the Vermicast has been better than any… anything she was using prior to the organic transition.
393 00:55:39.990 --> 00:55:41.559 Josephine Boswell: So,
394 00:55:42.230 --> 00:55:50.470 Josephine Boswell: there's that. I mean, in terms of the transition to organic and the improvement in the soil, like I say, we had a year of
395 00:55:50.600 --> 00:55:55.899 Josephine Boswell: quite painful, a couple of years, really, of growing… growing garlic, where
396 00:55:56.610 --> 00:56:01.490 Josephine Boswell: It's the weed control that's really the hardest thing to manage.
397 00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:13.880 Josephine Boswell: And it took, barnes went on a sort of research trip to France to visit some organic farmers down there who've been doing it for many years successfully. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's about the right… having the right kit.
398 00:56:14.170 --> 00:56:26.610 Josephine Boswell: And having the right conditions, I mean, this winter, we were… you know, the water was insane. And when there's that much water on the land, you can't get on to fir… to weed it.
399 00:56:26.670 --> 00:56:43.460 Josephine Boswell: So there are all of these challenges, but the quality of the garlic that we harvested last year was very, very good, and it's, we are hopeful for this year that the water hasn't, hasn't damaged the bulbs too much, because the fields were pretty…
400 00:56:43.850 --> 00:56:46.199 Josephine Boswell: Pretty sodden for a long time.
401 00:56:48.350 --> 00:57:06.339 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: One of the most memorable lines in the People's Emergency Briefing was the statement that the weather we're seeing at the moment is the least extreme that you're going to see in your lifetime. The least extreme. So, basically, it's just going to get worse from here.
402 00:57:06.450 --> 00:57:23.989 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: So if you, you know, if the problems you're having with water, I can see why, Southern Water wants to help, sort of, reduce the flow of water, at least slow it down a little bit, so they don't just chuck it all into the solar. And, and clearly, obviously, it makes a major difference to you.
403 00:57:23.990 --> 00:57:29.160 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Again, going back to Clarkson's farm, they're just sort of farming water for a lot of the time.
404 00:57:29.160 --> 00:57:32.089 Josephine Boswell: Yes, I'm finding ways to capture.
405 00:57:32.350 --> 00:57:34.860 Josephine Boswell: Capture those insane downpours.
406 00:57:35.050 --> 00:57:36.889 Josephine Boswell: It's so painful, because we've got.
407 00:57:36.890 --> 00:57:38.820 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: We're going to have to, aren't we?
408 00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:46.680 Josephine Boswell: get onto the market garden to start it because it was so wet, and now I can't get a spade in the ground because it's so dry.
409 00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:56.950 Josephine Boswell: You know, this is the reality, and we need… we need to get on with creating these market gardens all over the country, so that people.
410 00:57:56.950 --> 00:57:57.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: voice.
411 00:57:57.660 --> 00:58:14.700 Josephine Boswell: these challenges now, and figure out a way of dealing with them before we're in more desperate, dire straits, because we all… I really don't think that the… there's a lot of debate of can small farms feed the world, etc. I think that the purpose of,
412 00:58:15.870 --> 00:58:25.359 Josephine Boswell: you know, I think there are diverse… there's a diverse purpose to having small… smaller farms all over the country, and part of it is, you know, community farms and
413 00:58:25.570 --> 00:58:34.230 Josephine Boswell: The well-being of the people to see the food that they're growing, to manage the land themselves, is as much of the product as the food itself.
414 00:58:36.050 --> 00:58:59.360 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Yes, well, some… you were mentioning about the demands of the supermarkets, and because of their packaging requirements, they don't like knobbly vegetables, or everything has to be the right shape and size and color, and that's daft, really. And the community farms and the local market farms would obviously teach people to take what's good for taste and anything else, and who cares what color or shape it is?
415 00:58:59.360 --> 00:58:59.950 Josephine Boswell: Yep.
416 00:58:59.950 --> 00:59:10.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Interesting. And the second question I had was, you keep talking about the cows and how they're growing in terms of numbers. What number did you start with, and where are you at now?
417 00:59:11.570 --> 00:59:21.680 Josephine Boswell: Well, we were given some Highland cows many years ago from some friends, and they were really just, for an attraction piece for people to look at.
418 00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:27.740 Josephine Boswell: And then my… it was really when my brother-in-law decided to take an interest.
419 00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:36.630 Josephine Boswell: And he's grown the herd from, you know, a handful to what it is now. I think there's, about 80.
420 00:59:36.970 --> 00:59:38.190 Josephine Boswell: Currently.
421 00:59:39.200 --> 00:59:41.750 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: So it's multiplied by 10 or more.
422 00:59:41.750 --> 00:59:42.640 Josephine Boswell: Yep.
423 00:59:42.640 --> 00:59:44.470 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Wow. Interesting.
424 00:59:45.130 --> 00:59:49.899 Josephine Boswell: And he's become a, you know, absolutely zero,
425 00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:57.670 Josephine Boswell: absolutely zero experience in farming cows. He's sort of taught himself quite radically, which is impressive.
426 00:59:57.670 --> 00:59:59.840 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: I thought, tips to cancel duty.
427 01:00:02.020 --> 01:00:04.310 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Sean, you have another question, please?
428 01:00:04.310 --> 01:00:12.409 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, Joe, could you explain a little bit about the balance between, producing, foodstuff
429 01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:22.430 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: And selling the raw food stuff, and the process and the thinking behind turning it into value-added… bottled products.
430 01:00:22.540 --> 01:00:34.579 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Particularly at a local level, because I kind of… if we do something locally here, move into horticulture on a piece of, you know, reclaimed land or something like that.
431 01:00:35.530 --> 01:00:41.669 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: It's still probably going to be more expensive than going to Tesco to go and get your carrots. Possibly more expensive.
432 01:00:41.670 --> 01:00:43.420 Josephine Boswell: 100%, I'm afraid.
433 01:00:43.510 --> 01:00:58.080 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: But if you turn that into carrot cake, or whatever, you know, into a relish, or something, add value to it, I can see that, you know, you can get a premium
434 01:00:58.350 --> 01:01:06.050 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: for that, because it's locally made and what have you. We've got people, making kombucha, around here.
435 01:01:06.220 --> 01:01:09.780 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: And, they do extremely well. Yeah.
436 01:01:09.970 --> 01:01:11.260 Josephine Boswell: Whereabouts are you, Sean?
437 01:01:11.260 --> 01:01:13.130 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Wendover in Buckinghamshire.
438 01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:14.409 Josephine Boswell: Winded, okay, yeah, sorry.
439 01:01:14.410 --> 01:01:15.679 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: In the Chilterns.
440 01:01:15.680 --> 01:01:16.190 Josephine Boswell: Yeah.
441 01:01:16.190 --> 01:01:28.509 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: And I think there is a… there is an argument about this balance between producing food for, you know, raw food, if you like, and producing, value-added products.
442 01:01:28.510 --> 01:01:28.930 Josephine Boswell: Yeah.
443 01:01:28.930 --> 01:01:35.799 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: I actually personally think producing the value-added products could have more benefit, if it feeds money
444 01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:50.609 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: back into the… into the system. And, you know, even if it's just selling small volumes locally, like, we've got quite a lot of orchards around here that produce apple juice. They certainly make more money from their apple juice than they do from selling apples.
445 01:01:50.610 --> 01:01:51.600 Josephine Boswell: Yeah, absolutely.
446 01:01:51.600 --> 01:01:59.449 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: So that's sort of… can you explain what the thinking was behind the garlic, business turning into relishes and…
447 01:01:59.600 --> 01:02:01.750 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: What have you, or what the difficulties are.
448 01:02:02.970 --> 01:02:06.050 Josephine Boswell: Yes, so when I was growing up.
449 01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:18.110 Josephine Boswell: my… my mum started making pickles on… on the Arga in the kitchen, and that's… and that's how our whole, you know, condiment company…
450 01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:18.670 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Thank you.
451 01:02:18.670 --> 01:02:32.190 Josephine Boswell: began. Purely for that, yeah, for that reason, my dad was being entrepreneurial in desperate times, and looking at every way in which we could make money out of garlic, and adding garlic to all sorts of,
452 01:02:32.300 --> 01:02:39.879 Josephine Boswell: other vegetables, and then charging quite a high, quite a high price, even back then, for a small jar of pickle.
453 01:02:40.040 --> 01:02:46.939 Josephine Boswell: what I would say about that is the market is quite saturated, because lots of cottage industries are doing it.
454 01:02:46.970 --> 01:02:55.629 Josephine Boswell: However, a locally made kimchi, or sauerkraut, or, you know, who is your market?
455 01:02:55.630 --> 01:03:08.879 Josephine Boswell: And what is your… and what is your USP? I mean, if your market is your local town, and your USP is that your vegetables were grown locally, then, you know, that is going… you're really not competing with anybody else in that.
456 01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:09.640 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah.
457 01:03:09.640 --> 01:03:16.810 Josephine Boswell: scenario, and you're also not really going to be making the quantities of things to worry about. You know, you are going to sell what you make.
458 01:03:18.310 --> 01:03:28.579 Josephine Boswell: Being absolutely in the… very much the early and quite painful stages of setting up a market garden, which is,
459 01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:35.069 Josephine Boswell: Which is for, you know, it has to wash its face. I can't just…
460 01:03:35.070 --> 01:03:35.720 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Tim.
461 01:03:35.720 --> 01:03:43.299 Josephine Boswell: The garlic farm isn't doing well enough just to be able to support a project that's just gonna, you know, hemorrhage money.
462 01:03:43.330 --> 01:04:03.239 Josephine Boswell: It's really challenging, I would say, to make these things work, hence what I said about, you know, looking at all the other avenues and ways, all the funding, for educational trips, all of the workshops, all of the corporate visits, team-building away days. If you're gonna…
463 01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:05.849 Josephine Boswell: A finding a way to make land.
464 01:04:06.110 --> 01:04:14.909 Josephine Boswell: work that isn't just in the… it just isn't. Like, look at our garlic farm, it is diversified to the maximum.
465 01:04:15.380 --> 01:04:17.000 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yep. Yeah.
466 01:04:17.060 --> 01:04:21.589 Josephine Boswell: And I would say, yeah, just be very, very realistic.
467 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:25.020 Josephine Boswell: And also, what is your holistic purpose?
468 01:04:25.190 --> 01:04:31.929 Josephine Boswell: Of whatever you're doing with your land, because a huge part of it might be for the well-being of the community, in which case.
469 01:04:32.140 --> 01:04:48.209 Josephine Boswell: you know, the… depending on what your financial rules look like, I don't know, but your outcomes are different. If your… if your holistic purpose is for the well-being of the community, then it's very different to… if you're trying to raise money for the community, then you'll have to look at it in a really commercial way.
470 01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:49.719 Josephine Boswell: Do you see what I mean?
471 01:04:49.720 --> 01:04:51.090 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yep, yep, definitely.
472 01:04:51.090 --> 01:05:09.079 Josephine Boswell: Whereas my holistic purpose for the Market Garden is, you know, a huge part of the purpose is to inspire, educate, and, you know, entertain our guests that visit the hundreds of thousands of guests that come past. So, although you can't put a price on that.
473 01:05:09.460 --> 01:05:15.170 Josephine Boswell: you know, I have to remember that when I'm struggling to grow enough lettuces to sell the rest.
474 01:05:15.170 --> 01:05:25.219 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if we can encourage people to visit Wendover, who then spend their money in the coffee shops and things like that, that's…
475 01:05:25.220 --> 01:05:26.080 Josephine Boswell: Exactly.
476 01:05:26.080 --> 01:05:26.530 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: That's…
477 01:05:26.530 --> 01:05:38.080 Josephine Boswell: And do not… I mean, the power… I ran, I run monthly… we call them getting involved days, because we're not a charity, so we're careful with the word volunteering, but…
478 01:05:38.080 --> 01:05:49.380 Josephine Boswell: I run monthly Getting Involved days, and the last one I ran had 25 people turn up. Children, grandparents, parents, and it amazes me that
479 01:05:49.770 --> 01:05:59.939 Josephine Boswell: always has done, but I guess it doesn't because it's what I love doing. The power of gardening, or people's desire to get involved with the land, even when it's not their land.
480 01:06:00.090 --> 01:06:00.600 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yes.
481 01:06:00.600 --> 01:06:14.300 Josephine Boswell: It's extraordinary, and it's very reassuring, because we're gonna have to get involved with the land if we can get our flipping hands on the land from the big landowners. But, yeah.
482 01:06:14.300 --> 01:06:27.490 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Other question is, how do you go about engaging other entities? So, here we've got, obviously, the parish council, the county council, we've got, other parish councils, then there are charities. There's one called Lindengate.
483 01:06:27.490 --> 01:06:35.869 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Here, which is, you know, about, horticulture and well-being. And then there are other, others.
484 01:06:36.180 --> 01:06:48.459 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: training young people, in more urban areas like Aylesbury, how to cook well using fresh produce and things like that, and it's getting all of the different
485 01:06:48.620 --> 01:06:50.550 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: cogs together.
486 01:06:50.560 --> 01:07:09.439 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: to work like that, and I think that's one of the important aspects of how you get everyone… because you said, you know, what's your holistic, goal? Each one of those would have slightly different holistic goals, but if they can be all aligned, or helped.
487 01:07:09.610 --> 01:07:20.470 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: then you, you know, and then… then I could have my worm casts, the vermer casts, producing stuff for the Linden Gate, and then going off and… yeah, like that.
488 01:07:20.470 --> 01:07:35.899 Josephine Boswell: Yes, and I… I mean, I see a kind of… some kind of, like, overlapping circles Venn diagram going on here, with your market garden, or your garden in the middle, and then your different organizations, and the overlap of what they will benefit from in the garden, and therefore maybe
489 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:50.090 Josephine Boswell: I don't know where the finances come from, but if you're from a parish, or a county council, or whatever, but each of those organizations might want to have an investment in it, because they can see the benefit.
490 01:07:50.160 --> 01:08:09.289 Josephine Boswell: And so starting that conversation, that kind of focus group, I suppose, with all of those people, of whether they're interested… I mean, we're currently working on some quite large bids, which are island-wide, which is equally challenging, is bringing all the voices of the Island of Wight together.
491 01:08:09.330 --> 01:08:16.040 Josephine Boswell: Through the council, who are a council.
492 01:08:16.500 --> 01:08:18.949 Josephine Boswell: On, you know, trying to…
493 01:08:19.290 --> 01:08:23.810 Josephine Boswell: trying to sort of galvanize an idea, it's incredibly challenging. You do need…
494 01:08:24.390 --> 01:08:33.560 Josephine Boswell: And it's… in our scenario, it is being sort of driven by one person, which in a way is what needs to happen, because many voices are even harder to…
495 01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:35.870 Josephine Boswell: Manage.
496 01:08:36.490 --> 01:08:37.100 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Thank you.
497 01:08:37.100 --> 01:08:37.810 Josephine Boswell: Yep.
498 01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:43.450 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Does anyone else have anything that they're dying to ask, please?
499 01:08:44.380 --> 01:08:45.180 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Nope.
500 01:08:45.529 --> 01:09:02.770 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Joe, congratulations, you've managed to fascinate us for an hour, for which I'm very grateful, because I'm sure that the repercussions will go on for a lot longer. Thank you very much for entertaining us, for being so inspiring, and I hope everyone's enjoyed it.
501 01:09:02.770 --> 01:09:04.390 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Yeah, it was excellent, thank you.
502 01:09:04.970 --> 01:09:06.179 Josephine Boswell: Thanks for having me.
503 01:09:06.189 --> 01:09:08.989 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: Well, you're very welcome, and
504 01:09:09.549 --> 01:09:20.899 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: if I had a memory, I would tell everybody what's going… oh yes, we're going to talk next week, about how on earth you turn your community into a plastic-free community.
505 01:09:21.019 --> 01:09:26.519 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: So, and you like that, Joe, because it's local, it's what we've managed to do here in Bembridge.
506 01:09:26.729 --> 01:09:38.609 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: But it's applicable across the country, of course. So, thank you all very much for your time this week. I hope you enjoyed it, and we look forward to seeing anybody again next week. And so it goes.
507 01:09:38.609 --> 01:09:39.129 Sean McCarthy Wendover Bucks: Thank you very much.
508 01:09:39.130 --> 01:09:40.270 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: goes. Take care.
509 01:09:40.270 --> 01:09:42.559 Josephine Boswell: No, that was really great. Cheers.
510 01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:43.430 Graham Stoddart-Stones - Great Collaboration - Bembridge: available.
511 01:09:43.430 --> 01:09:44.300 Josephine Boswell: Bye.
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